Feels like fall...

[Smokecreek1]

It's what the local Indians called Ice fog! When it's bad, it covers everything. Remember what the mirk woods were in the hobbit , that sort of describes it and it becomes a state of mind. When you combine it with an inversion like they are having in Reno now-it's a mess, try being ice cold, can't breath, no sun with everything covered with ice, looks sort of pretty, but is depressing as hell-you don't want to spend to much time in it.

Smoke

 

[Lighthawk]

Batten the hatches, NorCal and OR!
Hopefully, this won't impact our Saturday departure.





US National Weather Service Sacramento California
Liked · 24 minutes ago








Windy weather is coming to Northern California this Thursday! This map shows sustained north winds 20 to 35 mph for the western side of the Valley. Gusts to around 45 mph are also expected. Tie down loose belongings and prepare for difficult driving, especially for high profile vehicles!

 

[Smokecreek1]

Have fun, maybe the wind and snow will chase the"poconiv" away! Wonder what the coast will be like now! Worth a thought!

Smoke

 

[takesiteasy]

Whats pokoniv? or however its spelled?

Ran into ice fog a couple of times dropping down into Mono Basin. I had never heard it called pokoniv. Where does the word come from?

I found this in Wikipedia:

"In the western United States, ice fog may be referred to as pogonip.[2][3] It occurs very rarely during cold winter spells, usually in deep mountain valleys. Ice fog can be quite common in interior and northern Alaska, since the temperature frequently drops below -40° in the winter months. Pogonip only forms under specific conditions; the humidity has to be near 100% as the air temperature drops to well below 0 °C (32 °F), allowing ice crystals to form in the air. The ice crystals will then settle onto surfaces.
The word pogonip is derived from the Shoshone word paγi̵nappi̵h, which means "cloud".[3][4] Supposedly, early settlers called it "white death" because they believed the crystals got into their lungs and caused death.
In The Old Farmer's Almanac, in the calendar for December, the phrase "Beware the Pogonip" regularly appears. In Smoke Bellew Jack London described Pogonip which happened to the main characters, killing one of them."

 

[ski3pin]

Great stuff takesiteasy. Thanks for searching it out. I didn't find it with the limited searching I did. It is so interesting - the origins of our words and sayings. Pogonip had a ring of familiarity in my old brain.

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

I first heard the term pogonip when I lived in Truckee, CA while watching Reno, NV TV. Later I had the pleasure of actually viewing it on rare trips down the hill to Reno. As a mountaineer, I would call pogonip a form of rime, but it usually builds up evenly in windless conditions around an object, while rime tends to build in flags facing into the wind. It is quite beautiful on trees, fences and buildings and having, on occasion, walked around in pogonip, I'm sure it is not "white death" or death of any kind. Any health issues would be from the heavy smog that these days accompanies the inversions which also creates the conditions for ice fogs. It quickly melts when the fog abates and the sun returns but is briefly striking against a blue ski.

 

[Riverrunner]

When we transitioned out of our deep freeze we had a couple of days of that Pogonip. Only the second time I can remember it happening. Yeah don't like it at all... Need a good storm to blow the stagnant air outta here. I'd settle for some rain at this point. We've got rain/snow mix in our forecast.

 

[ski3pin]

We loved driving through it on 395 along Mono Lake and looking up through it at sunrise. The sky all around us sparkled!

Stew, rime is so interesting and I was astounded when we studied this at National Avalanche School. The thought of supercooled liquid water in the atmosphere below the normal freezing point was a surprise. Rain needs a condensation nuclei for a raindrop to form, dust specks, etc. A freezing nuclei to form a snowflake is a different animal and is about 1000 times rarer in the air mass. In conditions when freezing nuclei are absent, there can be supercooled liquid water in a cloud that will instantly freeze when it touches mountain summits, trees, lift towers on the tops of mountains. It is surreal and beautiful. I'm attempting to explain in my poor layman's terms. I love this stuff!

 

[Smokecreek1]

Well, at least I know how to spell "pogonip" now ! "Thanks" after over 30 years of using the term ! I always forget to write it down when Reno tv starts talking about "pogonip[" weather ! I didn't realize it was so wide spread. Come to think about it, I think I was surprised the first time I heard it on tv, because I learned the term from the locals (who learned it from the Indians) when I first moved here , and just thought it was something used on the East side of the mountains! Never can stop learning.
Smoke

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

When we transitioned out of our deep freeze we had a couple of days of that Pogonip. Only the second time I can remember it happening.

Do you also use the word pogonip (or pokoniv) up there in Oregon? Or is it just ice fog?

 

[Smokecreek1]

Just walked outside-everything (trees, bushes, grass, truck) is covered with ice and we are in a "pogonip" , but my hill above town is just out of the "fog" part of it, have to start the truck and drive (slip) down the hill to mail X-mas presents-hurry up storm come in and blow this thing out !

Smoke

 

[MarkBC]

Do you also use the word pogonip (or pokoniv) up there in Oregon? Or is it just ice fog?

We just call it "freezing fog". We get it in central Oregon occasionally -- but not frequently -- when there's a temperature inversion.
I have to say it may be my least favorite weather (so I'm glad it's not frequent): It's cold, sometimes very cold -- can be zero or below, and damp -- 100+% humidity -- and yet, we're not getting any snow. So it's pointless unpleasantness. Yes, it's beautiful when the sun comes out and shines on the frosted everything...but that can come after days of unpleasantness. Bah humbug!

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

We loved driving through it on 395 along Mono Lake and looking up through it at sunrise. The sky all around us sparkled!

Stew, rime is so interesting and I was astounded when we studied this at National Avalanche School. The thought of supercooled liquid water in the atmosphere below the normal freezing point was a surprise. Rain needs a condensation nuclei for a raindrop to form, dust specks, etc. A freezing nuclei to form a snowflake is a different animal and is about 1000 times rarer in the air mass. In conditions when freezing nuclei are absent, there can be supercooled liquid water in a cloud that will instantly freeze when it touches mountain summits, trees, lift towers on the tops of mountains. It is surreal and beautiful. I'm attempting to explain in my poor layman's terms. I love this stuff!

3pin, my guess is that pogonip is also formed in supercooled and supersaturated air.

One of my first encounters with heavy rime was on Mt Hood, near the summit, in a steep, icy gulley appropriately called The Pearly Gates.

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Pogonip and rime always reminds me of the ice house in Dr Zhivago.



Is this what your place in Susanville looks like, Smoke?

 

[Smokecreek1]

Pogonip and rime always reminds me of the ice house in Dr Zhivago.

Dr-Zhivago-house-exterior.jpg

Is this what your place in Susanville looks like Smoke?

Not yet- -but bad enough, try to send a picture of my PO run later!

Smoke

 

[craig333]

Very interesting. We get plenty of fog here in Sacramento (usually tule fog) and its not my favorite weather condition but I've never experienced pogonip. Sounds like one of those things thats fun to see but not to live with.

Yep, still learning new stuff all the time.

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

We just call it "freezing fog". We get it in central Oregon occasionally -- but not frequently -- when there's a temperature inversion.
I have to say it may be my least favorite weather (so I'm glad it's not frequent): It's cold, sometimes very cold -- can be zero or below, and damp -- 100+% humidity -- and yet, we're not getting any snow. So it's pointless unpleasantness. Yes, it's beautiful when the sun comes out and shines on the frosted everything...but that can come after days of unpleasantness. Bah humbug!

Is that a pogoniped sage in your avatar, Mark, or am I seeing things?

 

[highz]

We just call it "freezing fog". We get it in central Oregon occasionally -- but not frequently -- when there's a temperature inversion.
I have to say it may be my least favorite weather (so I'm glad it's not frequent): It's cold, sometimes very cold -- can be zero or below, and damp -- 100+% humidity -- and yet, we're not getting any snow. So it's pointless unpleasantness. Yes, it's beautiful when the sun comes out and shines on the frosted everything...but that can come after days of unpleasantness. Bah humbug!

"Pointless unpleasantness". That's a good one. I'll remember that. This kind of weather only lasts a few days on average in my neck of the woods, and is rare. The trees and shrubs sure are pretty afterward, though.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Is that a pogoniped sage in your avatar, Mark, or am I seeing things?

Mark/Stew

It looks real close, but maybe caused by falling snow and not frozen fog-either way it's not fun-though snow always seems warmer!

Smoke

 

[MarkBC]

Is that a pogoniped sage in your avatar, Mark, or am I seeing things?

Good eye, Doug!

"Pointless unpleasantness". That's a good one. I'll remember that. ...

highz, please remember to attribute the phrase to me if you repeat it.
Of course, I'm only speaking from my narrow self-centered view when I refer to "pointless". In the big picture I don't believe anything in the natural world has a "point" -- it's just a lot of stuff that happens. Hope that doesn't sound too nihilistically bleak.