Fleet Tacoma Bucking/Shuddering/Bouncing

WxMan

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Has anyone experienced a serious bucking/bouncing/shuddering problem with their Fleet FWC on a 2011 Toyota Tacoma 6-ft bed. [SIZE=10.5pt]The problem I’m having is bucking (some call it shuddering) at various speeds, most noticeable between 30 and 40 mph but worse on segmented concrete pavement (porpoising would be the best way to describe the ride on concrete roadways). [/SIZE]The current configuration includes an OME suspension upgrade kit (front coil springs, Ntrocharger front Sport Struts and Shocks, back leaf springs SPC adjustable upper control arms and Timbrens). More importantly has anyone resolved these issues to their satisfaction. The problem is driving me a little crazy having invested in the suspension upgrade kit but the problem with bucking/bouncing still persists. Any recommendation would be appreciated.
 
Many thanks for raising this problem. Yes, I've had similar issues. I'm driving a 2016 SR5 4x4 Tacoma carrying a 2016 Fleet with a delivered weight of 1300 lbs. I carry minimal and only very lightweight gear so far (i.e., think lightweight backpacking gear and a few flyrods) and my wife and I are not big people. However, i don't know my loaded axle weights or overall weight.

In preparation for carrying my camper, I installed Firestone air bags, Bilstien rear shocks, and E-rated tires. My empty truck was almost undriveable on some segmented concrete freeways and highways on the 2,200 mile trip from Florida to Arizona to pick up my camper last spring.

It drives much better loaded, but I still encounter dangerous harmonic front to back bucking on some particularly uneven segmented high speed concrete roads. I've tried different speeds and air pressures in my tires and air bags, but while much better on normal segmented roads, the problem still persists on bad sections. Driving at slower speeds and reducing the air pressure in the air bags helps. I typically drive 55-60 miles per hour on highways/freeways. I go out of my way to avoid interstate freeways and some state highways by preference, but sometimes it's unavoidable. I put 12,000 miles on my camper/pickup last summer and haven't experienced any other handling issues except for this problem (e.g., it corners fine, handles 40+ mph sidewinds and passing trucks with ease, etc.).

The on-line research I've done suggests that installing adjustable rear shocks might be the answer (e.g., Boss). My camper is mounted only part time and I use the truck for hauling other stuff. I'll be very curious as to what other's recommend.
 
When I first had my Eagle on my Tacoma it would porpoise on the highway. At the time I had just added airbags and E rated tires. I ended up with an OME lift with heavy springs front and read and an extra leaf in the rear. I also have added an ARB front bumper/winch and an Aluminess rear bumper. No porpoising now but I can't say exactly what change fixed the issue for me.
 
I have had the same problem with our 2012 4 x4 Tacoma an Eagle. The first time was on the Oregon coast highway south of Florence.
Porpoising so bad at 50 mph I thought the rear tires were coming off the ground.! Slowing down to 45 stopped it. Only on concrete not asphalt.And to some degree I have experienced it on Calif highways.

A road engineer said condition caused by heavy trucks that compress the surface between the expansion joints and the wheelbase of the Tacoma......and certain road speed. Slow down and condition lessons.

He didn't have any other solution.
 
I have a 2014 Tacoma crew cab, code e Goodyear duratrac tires, bilstein 501 shocks all around, and ride rite airbags. Tire pressure is 35 psi. Air bag pressure is 30 psi. I haven't experienced what you have so I can't offer any more help than what I run at. When I first got my Fleet I spent some time figuring out the tire pressure and airbag pressure to get a smooth ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West
 
I am not positive what exactly the dynamics are that cause this but it happened to me on my Eagle/Colorado combo but I got it to go away by working out a similar set up as Freezingman. It takes time to adjust the airbags as there is a specific pressure at which the porpoising goes away...based on your camper/gear weight, tire type and pressure, and road condition (I might add how one distributes the gear inside also figures in). But I have found that there is a "Sweet spot" for the airbags ... too little or to much ...combined with the other variables makes it prone to bucking.... though cement segmented roads are an abomination... ever been in Pennsylvania?
Try first airing down the bags...then going up in 5 lb increments...starting at say 15 or 20. It actually worked for me.
Porpoising can also be decreased when it starts on those cement roads by quickly varying speed ...a pain but alternating gas and coast gets one through the crazy stuff. ( Gawd! I hate when that happens!)
 
Regardless of truck, the fewer and fatter your rear leaf springs/pack, the harsher (tooth jarring) the ride. One of the great things about the OME leaf spring design is the use of more leaves of thinner design.

When I was contemplating purchasing/installing an OME lift kit on my old truck, I called the OME owner down in AU. He told me he designs the spring packs so he could blast around the Outback and not spill his coffee. IMO, he succeeded. I will install a 3" OME on my new truck this summer.

I also installed the OME overload leaf spring in the pack since I leave my camper on the truck all the time.
 
I also have the OME leaf pack with the overload leaf, rides and handles fine on my Tacoma with Eagle. Also have the OME Nitrocharger shocks on the rear. Ron
 
Thank you all for your suggestions and comments. Just to clarify, I am currently runnning my Fleet/Tacoma rig with the OME suspension upgrade kit with the aforementioned components (front coil springs, Ntrocharger front Sport Struts and Shocks, back leaf springs, SPC adjustable upper control arms and Timbrens). Prior to the suspension upgrade recommended by my FWC dealer, I was using only Firestone Ride Rite air bags but was experiencing the same bucking, shuddering, porpoising issues. The air bags were removed as part of the OME suspension upgrade. I have not upgraded to E-rated tires.

The installer of the OME suspension upgrade kit concluded (after recently test driving the truck to replicate the symptoms) that any additional changes to the suspension and or components will not correct the problem and that basically the problem is inherent in the design of the Tacoma chassis with the load of the camper. Yikes, not a very encouraging diagnosis!

 
Did you upgrade to a stiffer or less stiff front coil when you did the suspension upgrade? Try adjusting the ride height up front. I'm assuming that the new coilovers are adjustable.

Porpoising is usually caused by:
>Too much weight behind the rear axle.
>Too much or not enough spring rate. F or R.
>Shocks with not enough rebound damping to control the spring rate.

I think you will need to experiment. Maybe remove the Timbrens 1st. it may be the suspension is bottoming and bouncing off them.

Try putting the airbags back on and adding a little air. If this helps then maybe your springs aren't cutting it. If it makes it worse then the shocks aren't controlling the springs.

How much lift do you have. This could be caused by a geometry change because of the new UCA's. Most lifts are made for lightly loaded trucks Not maxed out trucks. Weight changes the equation.

I don't own a Taco but have long experience with OME stuff on my Isuzu's. I have a lot of faith in OME's ability to handle weight if set up properly. My trooper tows a lot and carries stupid loads for it's size with ease on C rated tires.

The response from your installer means that he doesn't have a clue. But it couldn't possibly be the stuff he installed. He's back pedaling. Probably time for a 2nd opinion.

Think of your truck as a SeeSaw when it's doing this. The problem may very well be upfront and not in the rear. I would drive down the road with someone else in another vehicle. Preferably 2 people. One to drive and one to watch what your truck is doing on the road. They may see something or be able to identify which end of the truck is moving too much. That will at least point you to the area to be looked at.

Also alignment can really affect handling of a loaded truck. Especially with IFS. Most alignment guys just try to meet the specs that the machine tells them is correct. Many don't have the Theoretical knowledge to really understand the suspension geometry and how it affects the truck. I've been there with this. I finally found a shop that deals with everything from heavy trucks and RV's to race cars. When I told the tech the problems caused by the previous alignment he just laughed and told me, "Stock specs don't work on your lifted IFS truck." He aligned the truck and it was an amazing difference. I'm on my 3rd of these types of trucks all with similar lifts. None have handled like this one after the alignment. It took 3 tries to find the right guy.

Edit to add: I just thought of something else. OME springs have Polyurethane bushing normally. Often times Installers will way over tighten the bolts on the front pivot bushing and the shackles. Poly bushing have to rotate. Rubber bushings twist in the mounts. if the Bushing can't rotate then the spring are force to flex in funny ways to move. I'd have that checked.

Do you have the extra leaf added to your OME Dakar springs packs. If not then you probably need it. Try the air bags back on again with the setup you have if not.
 
Squatch Thanks for your comments.

I have been experiencing an intermittant "popping" sound in the front wnen I go through a gutter into a drive way. Both the dealer and my mechanic can duplicate the problem and can't locate the source. I was wondering if its ball joints although both say no. Lately I wonder if it could be shocks. We have the stock TRD offroad suspension with Bilstein shocks,.

This problem started last March after I returned from a trip to Saline hot springs. I cover about 40 miles of washboard road (each direction) at 15 - 20 miles an hour. Eagle weighs about 1300 pounds loaded. I air down to 28 pounds on my e-rated HanKooks.

Problem seems to be localized in the front (maybe 95%). Occasionally it popps in the rear when the truck body twists off camber. My mechanic did locate one problem in the front... axel which required replacing the "needle-bearing". Then the recurrence dropped by 60%.

I checked with the experts on Tacoma-World which led to replacing the needle-bearing, some of us still have the problem though.

Any ideas Squatch?
 
I guess I'll try. I'm not a pro just an old shade tree wrench. It could be any of the joints such as BJ, tie rod ends, steering rack and other things.

But on a couple of my vehicles I've found that pop and clunks on bumps is often sway bar related. Worn bushings and end links made horrible pops and clunks in Mama Squatch's CRV. It took a while to find but new bushings and end links quieted it right down.

I recently installed a Helwig rear sway bar in my Tundra. It seems to make a slight clunk occasionally when the Truck is twisted up some. I feel certain it's just the sway bar moving in the bushings a little and resetting itself.
I noticed a couple of Sites that sell suspension stuff have clamp on collars for the stock front Toyota sway bars. I presume they exist to fix the same issue.

Years ago I had what I thought was a worn out body mount clunking under the floor of my 1st Trooper. Finally figured out it was worn door hinges. On sharp turns the body flexed just enough that the door would clunk. It didn't sound like it was coming from anywhere near the door. That's a big problem with truck noises. Anyway a little gear oil on all the hinges and the problem was solved. No more noise.

Any fix is just a long process of elimination. One thing I do on modern cars that don't have grease fittings is to add grease. I use a hypodermic needle for a grease gun from the parts store. I inject some high quality chassis grease into the boots of all the BJ's, Tie rod ends, sway bar end links if they are the ball joint kind. I do this about every 25-50k miles. Just wipe the boot after and smear a little RTV on the hole. I try to reuse the same hole every time so I don't tear up the rubber boots. If you try this one component at a time and find the noise goes away you might have fixed it or at least found a sloppy joint that pops. Most all the OEMs have had issues with suppliers selling them non-greasable ball joints that didn't get factory packed with grease. Pretty sure that what the Tundra BJ recall is about. Not the 1st truck I've had with this problem.

I think the needle bearings you speak of must be what the drive axle rides in inside the front spindles. If they wear the inner axle may move around a little and make noise.

Hope this helps some.
 
Squatch,

In response to your questions:

Did you upgrade to a stiffer or less stiff front coil when you did the suspension upgrade? Try adjusting the ride height up front. I'm assuming that the new coilovers are adjustable.

The suspension upgrade included OME 2884 Front Coil Spring - Prado +03 Pair and included 90021 OME Nitrocharger Sport Front Strut. I have no way to respond to your question about the front coils, is this sufficient as an upgrade?


I think you will need to experiment. Maybe remove the Timbrens 1st. it may be the suspension is bottoming and bouncing off them.

Timbrens were temporarily removed, tested and did not make a noticeable difference and were put back on.

Try putting the airbags back on and adding a little air. If this helps then maybe your springs aren't cutting it. If it makes it worse then the shocks aren't controlling the springs.

Airbags are currently removed but will reinstall and run a test series with pressure variations as you suggest. Stay tuned.

How much lift do you have. This could be caused by a geometry change because of the new UCA's. Most lifts are made for lightly loaded trucks Not maxed out trucks. Weight changes the equation.

Upper control arms are SPC UPC - 05+ Tacoma Pair.

Also alignment can really affect handling of a loaded truck. Especially with IFS. Most alignment guys just try to meet the specs that the machine tells them is correct. Many don't have the Theoretical knowledge to really understand the suspension geometry and how it affects the truck. I've been there with this. I finally found a shop that deals with everything from heavy trucks and RV's to race cars. When I told the tech the problems caused by the previous alignment he just laughed and told me, "Stock specs don't work on your lifted IFS truck." He aligned the truck and it was an amazing difference. I'm on my 3rd of these types of trucks all with similar lifts. None have handled like this one after the alignment. It took 3 tries to find the right guy.

All I can tell you is that the truck alignment was done as part of the suspension upgrade. If it would be helpful I can email you the full invoice of work on the suspension upgrade.

Do you have the extra leaf added to your OME Dakar springs packs. If not then you probably need it. Try the air bags back on again with the setup you have if not.

I have the OME CS047R Dakar Leaf Pack - Pair. Is this sufficient or is an extra leaf warranted?

I am very appreciative of the level of effort you put in your response. Excuse my ignorance but I'm a total newbie to truck camping.

WxMan
 
My Fleet is on an '08 Canyon, so not the same animal. My camper bucking was not as severe as yours, but adding a Thule wind fairing helped a bunch. FWIW...

Scott
 
WxMan, No need to send me info. I don't really know the specifics of your truck. I was just trying to give you some info to work from and questions to ask. Long distance diagnosis is a sketchy thing at best.

I think maybe you are on the right track with putting the air bags back on with the new suspension and adding some air. Just go easy and drive it at every step. If a few pounds in the air bags stops the problem then great.

From what I've read the folks that haul campers with the OME springs and are happy often have the extra leaf. That's always an option to try if the air bags seem to fix the problem and you would rather just use springs and not the air bags. I think this is the leaf that goes with your springs.
https://bilsteinlifts.com/shop/toyota-tacoma/2005-2015/rear-lifts-05-15/ome-extra-leafs-cs047r-springs/?gclid=CIq58sXRp9ECFYtMDQodfZ8L7A
 
Any time you mix spring types you're going to be off in the damping. Air springs, torsion bars, and rubber springs (Timbrens etc.) all are very non-linear and require much more rebound damping than does a leaf spring or a coil spring. More leaf spring leaves is likely the best starting point. That will reduce or eliminate the need for the secondary spring. Going to a Ford style of over-load leaf spring would also be a good idea.
 
WxMan said:
The installer of the OME suspension upgrade kit concluded (after recently test driving the truck to replicate the symptoms) that any additional changes to the suspension and or components will not correct the problem and that basically the problem is inherent in the design of the Tacoma chassis with the load of the camper. Yikes, not a very encouraging diagnosis!

Something doesn't sound quite right with the installer's comments.

I would call ARB-USA , they are the distributors of OME in North America.

Sales, Customers Service, General Inquiries, Tech & Warranty
4810 D Street NW, Suite #103, Auburn, WA 98001 (425) 264 1391Fax: (425) 264 1392Toll Free: (866) 293-9078

Ask for the name of a dealer/installer near your location. I would then have the OME installation checked out.

There are probably more OME kits on Tacoma/HiLux trucks than any other make/model. Your experience is very rare for OME products (and I've never heard of one before for a Tacoma) which leads me to believe a component wasn't properly installed or you have a defective part (not likely).

Interestingly, a good friend owns a garage and his mechanic installed the OME kit on my F-250 (now sold). Leaving the shop, when making right turns something didn't feel right. Looked in the left fender well and found a spring pack clamp bolt installed threads outboard instead of inboard. The threaded portion of the bolt was rubbing the tire! Went back to the garage and had the issue fixed. I made the comment that I can't believe OME let that one slip through QA. The mechanic said they didn't, he removed the bolt to reset an anti-squeak liner and installed the bolt in the wrong direction. Good on him for admitting his mistake. Why I like my friend's garage.

So, I'd look at the OME installation.
 
I have experienced this same problem with my Tacoma/Fleet on concrete jointed highways as well. It seems to be an issue with the whole system having a resonant frequency close to the frequency your are hitting the joints, and the system being underdamped - so if you hit an oscillation at just the right frequency (45MPH on a particular concrete road for me) the suspension system resonates and you get the proposing effect. There are two ways to fix it - tune the resonant frequency of your suspension system (which is a function of your weight and spring constants) away from a frequency that you would encounter on a jointed road, or increase the damping on your shocks to damp out the resonance. I have OME BP-51 shocks, so for me I could reduce the effect (but not eliminate it) by increasing the rebound damping on my shocks. I still have the proposing on that particular section of road, as I haven't changed the resonant frequency, but it is much more damped so the resonance has gone from severe to mildly annoying.


Edit to add - this porposing is likely not a problem with the suspension or the installation, just an unfortunate combination of spring rate/weight/damping.
 
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