full float vs. semi-float axles

philos65

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On another WTW forum on truck carrying capacities someone mentioned that the majority of 1/2 ton pickups and recent 3/4 ton trucks have rear axle bearings that ride on the axle shaft. He mentioned he'd replaced 8 or more axle shafts over the years from bearing wearing into the shaft causing pitting and metal loss on the shaft where the bearing rides.

He recommended adapting a full floating axle and 14 bolt differential. Curious, I checked online prices and they were anywhere from $300 on up plus shipping. These were pre-1999 chevy 3/4 and one ton rear ends.

Is this a common problem with 1/2 ton pickups carrying pop-up slide in campers and gear? I'd not heard of this issue before and wonder how closely I need to monitor axle bearings and shafts...

Jeff...
 

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Most, if not all, 1/2-ton trucks have semi-float rear axles. I do not know of a 3/4-ton or heavier that does not have full float axles. While it’s true that full floaters are designed to carry more weight, there are plenty of semi-floats out there carrying leightweight campers...Tacomas, Tundras, Rams, Rangers, etc. Assuming you’re not exceeding your GVW with the camper (or close to it) I believe “mechanical sympathy” plays a much larger role in whether your axles hold up or not. My 21 year old, 300k+ miles Dodge Ram 1/2-ton has carried it’s 6400# GVW (and more) over some very rough territory and the rear axle assembly has held up just fine. YMMV. Decide on a camper and then choose a truck that has the appropriate payload rating. Treat your ride with care and it will repay you in adventures!
 
I agree completely with Mighty Dodge Ram and also want to point out the illogical reasoning in the initial axle statement because I often heard statements like that when I worked on RVs.

If all or nearly all or the vast majority of anything is market dominate it will naturally follow that if something in that category fails, it will be a member of the category is more widely sold. So if all half-ton trucks have semi-floating rear axles, if any axles in half ton trucks fail, it will be a semi-floating axle and so on. Watch for statements of this nature on the Internet whenever folks make comparisons. To make a valid comparison, you would need a number of examples of each type of axle in the same model truck carrying the same load under the same conditions. If you do not have that there are so many confounding variables, in my opinion, you can't make a valid statement about component reliability.
 
ardvark said:
I agree completely with Mighty Dodge Ram and also want to point out the illogical reasoning in the initial axle statement because I often heard statements like that when I worked on RVs.

If all or nearly all or the vast majority of anything is market dominate it will naturally follow that if something in that category fails, it will be a member of the category is more widely sold. So if all half-ton trucks have semi-floating rear axles, if any axles in half ton trucks fail, it will be a semi-floating axle and so on. Watch for statements of this nature on the Internet whenever folks make comparisons. To make a valid comparison, you would need a number of examples of each type of axle in the same model truck carrying the same load under the same conditions. If you do not have that there are so many confounding variables, in my opinion, you can't make a valid statement about component reliability.
What part of the statement you refer to seems illogical, and how does it relate to work on RVs?
 
philos65 said:
. . . He mentioned he'd replaced 8 or more axle shafts over the years from bearing wearing into the shaft causing pitting and metal loss on the shaft where the bearing rides . . .
I wonder if the original poster knew that the inner race of the bearing is replaceable? I've had to replace them before. The inner race might look like part of the shaft but it comes off (must know naughty words in at least 6 languages to remove it). The only time i ever saw a semi-floating axle shaft damaged is when the bearing froze and the idiot kept driving.

jim
 
Not all semi-float rear axles have an inner race. Those in older GM 12 bolt trucks don't to the best of my knowledge and I know for a fact that the semi-floater in our old FJ60 didn't have an inner race. (Nor do the GM pass. car semi-floaters from the days of RWD pass. cars.)
However the Ford 9" does have an inner race. I believe that Dana 44's do as well. The semi-rare semi-float Dana 60 probably does too.

I'm not a fan of semi-float axles. I rather dislike them somewhat passionately. That said, I need a real reason to bother with installing full-floater to replace an perfectly functioning semi-floater. Usually there are a whole bunch of collateral effects of such a swap that increase the cost.

Those semi-float axles that don't have an inner race tend to be those that use a "C-Clip" to hold the axle shaft in the housing. That is one of the parts that I really dislike about the design. The other is that the axle shaft much be surface hardened in an area where it also flexes. Not a great idea, but if you look at how many miles semi-float, C-Clip axles have collectively accumulated it's pretty hard to condemn the design.
If you have one of the these axles I would suggest annual maintenance and lube replacement. I would also suggest that a quality synthetic lube or a SWEPCO product lube be used. I post this knowing that I'm behind the curve on a GM 12 bolt.....
 
ntsqd said:
Not all semi-float rear axles have an inner race. Those in older GM 12 bolt trucks don't to the best of my knowledge and I know for a fact that the semi-floater in our old FJ60 didn't have an inner race. (Nor do the GM pass. car semi-floaters from the days of RWD pass. cars.)
However the Ford 9" does have an inner race. I believe that Dana 44's do as well. The semi-rare semi-float Dana 60 probably does too.

I'm not a fan of semi-float axles. I rather dislike them somewhat passionately. That said, I need a real reason to bother with installing full-floater to replace an perfectly functioning semi-floater. Usually there are a whole bunch of collateral effects of such a swap that increase the cost.

Those semi-float axles that don't have an inner race tend to be those that use a "C-Clip" to hold the axle shaft in the housing. That is one of the parts that I really dislike about the design. The other is that the axle shaft much be surface hardened in an area where it also flexes. Not a great idea, but if you look at how many miles semi-float, C-Clip axles have collectively accumulated it's pretty hard to condemn the design.
If you have one of the these axles I would suggest annual maintenance and lube replacement. I would also suggest that a quality synthetic lube or a SWEPCO product lube be used. I post this knowing that I'm behind the curve on a GM 12 bolt.....
Huh, I thought I was in the clear with my GM 3/4 ton... looking at some exploded parts diagrams makes me think that it is a "semi-float" without an inner race. Can you confirm? 2002 GMC 2500HD is the truck. Can you also clarify what you recommend for the annual maintenance? I already change our most fluids and filters every year...
 
My parts book gives both inner and outer wheel bearings for a 2001 - 2010 GMC 2500HD: Timken QU50399 inner and QU50411 outer. That would make it a full floater. Your rear axle should have a large flange with multiple bolts not simply a center bolt in the center of the wheel (see diagram in post #1).

All semi-floaters I have ever worked on the wheel bearings are lubed by differential gear lube. To get to the wheel bearing you must pull the axle out, so no regular maintenance.

I stand corrected on integral inner race on the axle; stupid design.

jim
 
JaSAn said:
My parts book gives both inner and outer wheel bearings for a 2001 - 2010 GMC 2500HD: Timken QU50399 inner and QU50411 outer. That would make it a full floater. Your rear axle should have a large flange with multiple bolts not simply a center bolt in the center of the wheel (see diagram in post #1).

All semi-floaters I have ever worked on the wheel bearings are lubed by differential gear lube. To get to the wheel bearing you must pull the axle out, so no regular maintenance.

I stand corrected on integral inner race on the axle; stupid design.

jim
Thanks Jim, yes, that does look like my truck's axel. And thanks for the part numbers. The rear seals on both axels were replaced 30K Km ago (truck has 217K km on it) but the bearings themselves have never been replaced. Most of those KM were highway miles hauling a 5th wheel. Would you redo them, just because?
 
The difference illustrated in the diagram in post #1 one can see that the full floater is much beefier. The load is transmitted through two bearings as opposed to one. Semi-float just makes design sense in a lighter vehicle.

There is another advantage to full-float. If the axle shaft breaks the entire wheel assembly is intact. On a semi-floater if the axle shaft breaks there is no longer anything to prevent the remaining axle shaft and wheel assembly from coming out of the axle housing.
 
FWIW, Ive had the parts in hand on most that have been replaced, I replaced some, shops replaced others and they showed me the parts, none in my 67 1/2 T Chevy 4wd had an inner race, nor the 83 ford F250 light duty, which I ended up just replaced the entire rear end with a full floater when it needed axle shafts, and a number on 90's Suburbans. I tend to carry a lot of weight on a regular basis. When i drove pickups, I built a steel frame, steel clad utility shell on bedside tool boxes, it weighed 620 lbs empty, then I had tools, camp junk, water cans, recovery gear, ammo, shooting stuff, small camper stove and other misc stuff always along for the ride. The F 250s (had 2) with full floaters are the only axle bearings Ive never had to replace shafts or bearings in in American trucks. Somewhat limited sample size, but talking to mechanics that were working on them and other people that have had axles replaced, its not that uncommon for the semi-floaters to wear out axle shafts.

Id only suggest if one has them apart for bearings/seals or any other major work that gets the axles out, just replace them as a preventive maintenance thing IF one regularly carries heavy loads. At the point you have the shafts out, its only the cost of the shafts to replace them.

Ive seen one 1/2 T ford that broke an axle shaft on the road in Alaska, the wheel came completely off, and drug a groove in the pavement to the side of the road from the brake backing plate and anything else hanging off the end of the housing when he pulled off. I understand some older 1/2 T fords had a floater type bearing with replaceable races, but I dont know how common. The one I knew of was in a 79 Bronco I believe. I believe most of the Japanese trucks have better wheel/axle bearings than the common semi-floaters on 1/2 and light duty 3/4 ton American stuff. As someone said, they arent that great of a design, but work for most people for most of their use. Id just replace them now and then if I were going to rely on one especially for going offroad or remote country, and it carried much weight regularly. Its fairly cheap insurance. $100-ish each, depending on where you get them, I think the local parts suppliers were pricing them at $125 retail maybe? I understand handling gets sort of squirrely when the axle breaks and the wheel is gone. Fortunately I never had it happen, despite some pretty well trashed axle shafts.

Some good comments.
 
By regular maintenance I mean change the lube, check wheel bearings, etc. I think that synthetic (or SWEPCO) lubricant is well placed in a rear axle. I only use dino oil in axles for break-in.
If the bearings look & feel good and are not 'grayed' where the rollers ride on the race then I'd only replace them for piece of mind prior to some BIG trip (Al-Can, Trans-Can, stuff like that). If they look and feel good, but are 'grayed' in the roller zone then I'd replace them since I'm in there. At 217 km (~134k miles for us heathens) with 5th wheel duty as the bulk of that mileage I think that I'd replace them. FWIW I only buy brand name bearings from bearing houses, not from auto parts stores.

Not all semi-float axles have the nut in the center shown in the illustration. CJ5 Model 20 rear axles are the last that I know of built that way.
Not all 3/4t Suburban's have full-float rear axles. My '79 did and my friend's '91 did not. I know that GM built some "Light 3/4t's" in the 90's to 00's that are semi-floaters too.
 
ntsqd said:
By regular maintenance I mean change the lube, check wheel bearings, etc. I think that synthetic (or SWEPCO) lubricant is well placed in a rear axle. I only use dino oil in axles for break-in.
If the bearings look & feel good and are not 'grayed' where the rollers ride on the race then I'd only replace them for piece of mind prior to some BIG trip (Al-Can, Trans-Can, stuff like that). If they look and feel good, but are 'grayed' in the roller zone then I'd replace them since I'm in there. At 217 km (~134k miles for us heathens) with 5th wheel duty as the bulk of that mileage I think that I'd replace them. FWIW I only buy brand name bearings from bearing houses, not from auto parts stores.

Not all semi-float axles have the nut in the center shown in the illustration. CJ5 Model 20 rear axles are the last that I know of built that way.
Not all 3/4t Suburban's have full-float rear axles. My '79 did and my friend's '91 did not. I know that GM built some "Light 3/4t's" in the 90's to 00's that are semi-floaters too.
Thanks Thom. Putting that on my list of to-do's before next spring's trip to AZ... 7080KM or 4400 HM (heathen miles) :)
 
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