FWC Keystone Roof Help

[ironman]

Hello,

I'll start with an intro. My name is Mike, and this past year, I bought a 1974 Ford F-250 Highboy in California, and a 1988 FWC Keystone in Idaho, each sight unseen. Had the camper shipped to Cali. Then one of my best friends and I flew to Cali, and drove cross country fly fishing our way home. The guy I bought the truck from played a key role in the entire trip as he stored the truck, continued to fix things, and rigged everything up. Despite most people I know thinking this was an ill conceived trip, we easily made the 3550 drive back to Upstate NY. The only mechanical issue we had, were dry rotted windshield wipers. Here are a few pictures of the Prairie Schooner.






​​Which brings me to my problem. The roof leaks terribly in 2 places. (Not at all disclosed by the previous owner) What's the best possible way to resolve this?

The canvas is showing its age, and delaminating on the starboard side window. Any direction on how to deal with this?

Lastly, the stern accordion piece that holds up the top, is dry rotted, and starting to get loose. Again, input is welcome.

My opinion on the matter: this camper is in really great shape, and worth investing in. The interior, aside from the roof leakage, is what I would consider excellent, if not mint, condition. Everything works, except the roof. I love this rig, and plan to have it for the foreseeable future. Is there anyone in the Northeast who may do professional restoration work on FWC?

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Mike, welcome to Wander the West! There’s enough going on with your roof that makes me think you would be wise to replace both front and rear lift panels, as well as the canvas. If you’re handy, you could do it yourself. If not, I’d get it back to the west coast, and have the team at ATC do the fix. My guess is the leak is because of the sealant around one or more of the roof screws. I would remove all of the screws, clean the roof around the holes, replace with new screws (perhaps slightly larger), the sealing with what ever Marty at ATC recommends.

I’m old and lazy, so my solution would be to get it to ATC to have it done. There’s a good chance that Marty and Jeff built that camper at Four Wheel, but regardless... they would be my choice for repair.

 

[LuckyDan]

Welcome to the Forum from another "Vintage" owner. I guess we don't have signature lines anymore. Mine is a 89 Grandby. The older units really are pretty durable and can be revamped pretty easily. Revamped and they will go on almost forever. The problems you describe are fairly common with older units. With that I'll elaborate:

Is the leak standard, as in After sitting in the rain, or occurs after driving in the rain? Roof leaks in our vintage campers have 3 typical causes.
#1 the screw issue and fix previously mentioned. The newer units use Dicor self leveling sealant. Don't forget the vent screws too.
#2 the roof is actually two pieces. The center seam isn't real obvious. A wide strip of Eternabond tape down the seam will work.
#3 is specific to older units. When the roof was installed, the panels were folded over the edge of the frame and inside the soft wall. The caulk seam against the side trim breaks down and water leaks into the camper. The good fix is to pull the trim and pull the roof panel edge to the outside of the soft wall.
If the leak occurs in the overhead area after driving, then the leak comes from driving rain getting under the roof edge and coming in a gap in the window Velcro. The cure is to install "D" bulb gasket across the cabover and down the sides. The new units have it and somewhere on here are a couple of threads on doing a D bulb retrofit. A now departed camper friend of mine retro fitted his and it made a big difference.

As for canvas delamination, there are threads on doing the Hapylon (sp) patch. Material and glue are available from ATC. Probably the best answer is a soft side replacement. Yours I'll guess has the foam lined soft side and if it isn't moldy consider yourself blessed.

The lift panels, now composite built, are available from FWC, complete with spring loaded hinges. Again, there are threads on here where people have done replacements, and/or built their own. As for NE professionals, I know no one, and FWC's back there are a rarity, though not unheard of. As for the roof, any good sheet metal shop should be able to fix you up. The rest may take some searching. My son attended college in New York, and one thing I learned is if there is a good old fashioned craftsman or craftswoman anywhere, it's New York.

Good Luck and Best wishes...

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Dan, much better info than mine. Thanks!

 

[shellback]

First thing I'd do is to remove all the old caulk and the vents. Clean all the old caulk areas with a fine wire wheel in an electric drill. Get it down to bare metal, then paint the roof. After painting, wipe it down with alcohol and recaulk all the vent, screws etc with Dicor caulk. Don't try to recaulk over old stuff!

 

[JDeanP]

As a member of the FBIG50 club and someone who also just bought an old Keystone, I'm looking forward to more of your posts.

It's been said before, but a lot of the restoration projects aren't as bad as they might look from the beginning. If you do it yourself, or find someone to complete the work for you, you've got a nice setup. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ironman]

Thanks for the input. Here’s some more info.

I notice the leaks when it sits, and after driving through a storm.

The canvas has the foam insulation, but no mold. (Genuflecting) (smile)

This doesn’t seem as involved as initially though, so before I freight it back to Cali, I’ll give it a go.

Does anyone know who sells a canvas replacement kit? FWC does not offer Keystone any longer.

I’m not familiar with the other company listed in this thread. Could you provide a website?

If resealing the roof/replacing the canvas, would it also be wise to replace the headliner? Or don’t worry about it? It’s not really discolored or in poor shape.

These are a rarity in the NE. Not sure why. It’s a really efficient and comfortable way to travel. Lived out of this for 3 weeks. Plenty of room too. 2 6’ tall guys. Each with too much fly tackle, waders, costs, sleeping bags, food, beverages, 2 pelican hard sided camera cases, a big yeti cooler, and a FireDisc Cooker.

 

[Beach]

My roof leaked when driving through heavy rain.The final fix was to reshape the front seal/weather strip. It had collapsed due to age, rubber was still pliable and not cracked. To reshape it I pulled a length of vacuum line into the hollow section. No more leaks

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Here you go... All Terrain Campers

Marty and Jeff are the owners. When you call, it will probably be one of them that answers the phone.

 

[shellback]

I'm guessing you would see prices between 1 and 2 thousand dollars to replace the canvas. Quite a few of us has done it ourselves for probably less than $300. Here's how 1 member did it. http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/15594-total-pop-up-material-replacement-purchasing-to-finishing/

 

[ironman]

Here you go... All Terrain Campers

Marty and Jeff are the owners. When you call, it will probably be one of them that answers the phone.

Thanks for the link. Looks like they build some sweet units.

I know I’m not going to sew a new canvas. That is beyond my comfort or skills level. Does anyone manufacture a replacement canvas?

Removing old screws, cleaning, resealing, and zippzing in new screws sounds okay.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I think ATC is going to be your best bet, they can also do your lift panels. FWC could do it as well, but I’m not sure repair work is their priority. I know of no other companies that would take on your repairs, but let’s see if another member has any ideas.

 

[LuckyDan]

I know the thread is a little dated, I'll share for whom ever may find it. ATC can source your canvas and parts. I would assume FWC can too. I say "Assume" because I haven't needed anything since before they changed hands, thus haven't dealt with them lately. The nice thing about ATC is they are intimately familiar with the older FWC campers. Heaven only knows how many they have replaced canvas on. Attaching it is really just a screw and trim affair. That said, there is an art to get it hung, centered and even. There are some threads on here from a long time ago describing the re canvas process, complete with pictures. I suppose short of sending it West, and not tackling it oneself, if equipped with the prepared canvas already, a good commercial canvas shop should certainly be able to hang it. One word of caution, beware of anyone who claims they can do it because they do pop up camp trailers. The attachment systems between FWC's and trailers is vastly different.

Good luck and hope this helps.

 

[Wildcat]

Actually there's some more recent posts about the canvas replacement, earlier post #10 has a great link to videos. Installing can be somewhat involved because you are disconnecting the roof.

 

[ironman]

Thanks for the insight. Appreciate it.

I figured after the holiday dust settles, I’ll reach out to both FWC and ATC for parts and info.

Happy New Year to everyone!

 

[Living The Dream]

I'm guessing you would see prices between 1 and 2 thousand dollars to replace the canvas. Quite a few of us has done it ourselves for probably less than $300. Here's how 1 member did it. http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/15594-total-pop-up-material-replacement-purchasing-to-finishing/

Thanks for sharing my post Shellback and Wildcat.

Ironman, nice purchase! Looks like it will be a nice rig! Check out my videos on the canvas replacement and my EMT roof lifting system. You might find them interesting and let me know if you have any questions.

I also looked into having FWC and ATC make the canvas instead of me. I chatted with both. FWC never got back to me on a price, I think their main priority is new models, and they have a ton of business already so can't fault them on not doing much of this type of work.

I have chatted with others from this site about ATC making them. I believe they still do for ~$1-2K. Not 100% of that price. Report back when you find out. If you are up for it, I'd say make your own you will learn a lot! Enjoy the rebuild!

 

[OSUFlyer]

I have a Keystone with lift panel issues and ATC quoted me around $1200 for both panels, possibly slightly more if hidden damage was located while replacing panels. ATC was extremely responsive and helpful. I got the feeling the older campers weren't really FWC's thing when I called; they didn't seem real excited to work to mess with an older Keystone.

Honestly I'm still on the fence on new panels vs. conduit. $1200 is a lot of money but the state of my current panels is what's holding up my refurb.

 

[Living The Dream]

I have a Keystone with lift panel issues and ATC quoted me around $1200 for both panels, possibly slightly more if hidden damage was located while replacing panels. ATC was extremely responsive and helpful. I got the feeling the older campers weren't really FWC's thing when I called; they didn't seem real excited to work to mess with an older Keystone.

Honestly I'm still on the fence on new panels vs. conduit. $1200 is a lot of money but the state of my current panels is what's holding up my refurb.

Conduit is working well for me. Others have also made panels. to pretty good success. it took one member, pokybro, two attempts but he clearly outlines what the issue was and paves the way nicely for others to follow.

 

[Rafter C]

Thanks for the insight. Appreciate it.

I figured after the holiday dust settles, I’ll reach out to both FWC and ATC for parts and info.

Happy New Year to everyone!

So if you're not familiar with ATC, the story is this: The guys that own ATC worked for the original FWC for many years. At some point, they separated from there due to "creative differences", and started their own company building campers in the style and construction of the old FWC's. Their design and construction techniques have been successful and consistent for 40 years, and they know the older campers like they know their own names. They commonly do repairs on FWC's. Mostly because they can, they will, and they're approachable. While FWC makes good products, their expansion as the "big boy" in the business has made them a little difficult to deal with if you aren't looking a warranty repair..... Good luck.