Headliner replacement / aluminum frame conductivity

[Captm]

I'm replacing my headliner and I want to address the condensation dripping off the staples fastening the wood strips to the aluminum frame. I did not count the number of staples (maybe a hundred?) attaching the headliner to the frame and then covered by the wood strips to dress it. These staples were rusted, some more than others.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to eliminate the drips such as installing wood strips directly to the frame with adhesive then stapling to the wood strips or any other ideas.

I'm not looking for a discussion on heaters (propex), venting procedures (2 roof vents), or wiping down (chamois).

Thanks and Cheers!

 

[ckent323]

Captm,

Can you tell if the inside of the Aluminum channels have been filled with foam? Maybe check with FWC for your unit?

I don't recall when FWC started filling the tubes with foam but I think it was only within the past 3 or 4 years. I believe they started doing that to mitigate some of the condensation issue and a least block the flow of moisture in the tubes to the ends and onto the fold up lift panels..

I have pondered pulling some of the headliner off to see if there is a way to put foam in the tubes. I have not worked up the courage to do so yet.

I am interested to read how you solve the condensation problem and then how you put the headliner back on and hold it in place..

Regards,

Craig

 

[Captm]

Captm,

Can you tell if the inside of the Aluminum channels have been filled with foam? Maybe check with FWC for your unit?

I don't recall when FWC started filling the tubes with foam but I think it was only within the past 3 or 4 years. I believe they started doing that to mitigate some of the condensation issue and a least block the flow of moisture in the tubes to the ends and onto the fold up lift panels..

I have pondered pulling some of the headliner off to see if there is a way to put foam in the tubes. I have not worked up the courage to do so yet.

I am interested to read how you solve the condensation problem and then how you put the headliner back on and hold it in place..

Regards,
Craig

Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

 

[Captm]

Thanks Craig that's good info, my Fleet was made the first quarter of 2014 so I do not have foam. I'll call FWC and find out what they use.
With the headliner and styrofoam out it looks like an easy project.
Cheers!



Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

 

[Captm]

According to Roy at FWC they are not filling the roof tubing with foam. I have had different answers from different people before at FWC. Maybe Stan ( of all things FWC) can clarify if foam is used inside the tubes. It sounds like an interesting idea if it does in fact reduce condensation.
Cheers!



Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

 

[cj1]

Anyone have a source for the staples to aluminum frame and type of gun needed?

 

[ckent323]

Captm,

I did a search on these forums for <ceiling foam> and <foam tubing> but found nothing.

Not sure where I got the information that FWC started putting foam in the tubes (does ATC do that maybe?). Never-the-less, I do recall reading that someplace.

Anyway I found a similar thread to this one which may have some useful info - here:

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/591-anyone-put-staples-into-the-frame/?hl=+ceiling%20+tubes



Edit: Just found it here. ATC puts expanding foam in the corners of the roof tubes:

See the bottom of post #1

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/7009-noobie-roof-leak-repair/?hl=%2Bfoam+%2Btubes



Regards,

Craig

 

[Beach]

The staples are referred to as Narrow Crown type.Most all nail gun manufacturers also have staplers. I have one made by Senco. A online search should turn up what you need. Staples can be had in stainless and monel, depending on size and gauge, thus eliminating the rust problem.If you are going to staple into the tubing be sure to ck for wiring, if you penetrate/nick the wire insulation the staple will cause a short to the roof frame. Also adjust the air pressure(down) so the staples don't blow through the wood strips.

 

[cj1]

Beach, thanks for the response.
Tried 18 gauge 1/4 inch narrow crown standard staples but bent on impact with tubing.
Suppose stainless/monel would penetrate or is it necessary to go with special high carbon steel/ sharp point .
(Type used for stapling canvas to aluminum awnings).

Problem is the cost of the staples if i keep trying until successful.
The stainless/monel worked for you?
If so will purchase a box.

Thanks

 

[Captm]

Craig, thanks for the search and finding the answer to the foam question. It make for an interesting idea to fill the tubes with foam.
Not sure of the true benefits but it couldn't hurt being that the roof is insulated everywhere except for the tubes.

Cheers!

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Craig, thanks for the search and finding the answer to the foam question. It make for an interesting idea to fill the tubes with foam.
Not sure of the true benefits but it couldn't hurt being that the roof is insulated everywhere except for the tubes.

Cheers!

My guess is that foam in the tubes won't have much of an effect. Those sneaky little temperature critters are just going to follow the aluminum, or at least that's my uninformed opinion.

 

[ntsqd]

Condensation happens because there is a "Cold Path" that causes some interior surface to be cold enough to condense water vapor. Either from exhaling (could stop doing that I guess) or from an open flame. Propane is pretty good at producing only water vapor and CO2 when burnt.

If you can obliterate (my $5 word for the day!) or partly degrade the cold path then the condensation either won't happen or will happen at a lower rate. As I understand the process it is driven by the temperature differential. So by making that differential smaller (better insulation) the condensation will also be reduced. The moisture is still in the air, there's just nothing as cold causing it to condense.

Not that it's an option here, but one way I've seen the cold path dealt with is to essentially "laminate" two 1/2" thick walls or roofs together where the studs/rafters in the wall are deliberately offset from each other. Which breaks the cold path thru the wall. Perhaps by making the roof another 1/2" thicker with structure in different places than existing and a new layer of 1/2" insulation this could be done?

 

[ckent323]

NTSQD, Wandering Sagebrush, et al,

Agreed that the Aluminum is a conductive path and condensation will continue to occur on the outer surface of the Aluminum tubes but I am suspicious that condensation forming on the inside of the hollow tubes gets channeled to the ends where there are joints and which are at the lift panels. I think that is at least one cause of water damage and mold that many folks get primarily at the lift panels and in the corners.

Filling the tubes with foam does not stop the condensation on the outside of the tube but it may minimize it happening on the inside of the tubes as well as block the flow of condensed water to the joints at the ends of the tubes.

I suspect that is what the folks at ATC also determined and why they put form in the tubing at the corners.


I hope that better explains things.

Regards,
Craig

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Craig, that makes sense to me. Thanks!

 

[Beach]

No, I have never used the stainless or monel into the aluminum but have driven them into some very hard woods and HDPE. I rehung the wood strips in my camper with S.S. screws(easy to remove if needed.

 

[cj1]

Beach, thanks for the response.
May end up using the screws but since I'm replacing entire headliner wanted to try stapling it.

 

[shellback]

Beach, thanks for the response.
Tried 18 gauge 1/4 inch narrow crown standard staples but bent on impact with tubing.
Suppose stainless/monel would penetrate or is it necessary to go with special high carbon steel/ sharp point .
(Type used for stapling canvas to aluminum awnings).

Problem is the cost of the staples if i keep trying until successful.
The stainless/monel worked for you?
If so will purchase a box.

Thanks

This is what I used to staple my headliner.

Porter-Cable NS150CR 18-Gauge 1/4 in. Crown 1-1/2 in. Narrow Crown Stapler Kit
It drove the staples easily except for the beam where the roof panels joined. Maybe the beam was of heavier material due to the joint? I didn't use wood strips, I used 3/4 inch wide plastic screen door trim from Home Depot.

 

[Beach]

I like that idea of using plastic strips, no wood, nothing organic for mold to thrive on. I made new replacement oak strips since I only had to replace 2 -3' sections.

 

[Captm]

This is what I used to staple my headliner.
Porter-Cable NS150CR 18-Gauge 1/4 in. Crown 1-1/2 in. Narrow Crown Stapler Kit
It drove the staples easily except for the beam where the roof panels joined. Maybe the beam was of heavier material due to the joint? I didn't use wood strips, I used 3/4 inch wide plastic screen door trim from Home Depot.

Most likely you were hitting staples in the beam. They are spaced at 1" intervals with a lot of other staples randomly placed among them.
Cheers!