Hey Deer Hunters...

Ted

Ted

Magellan
Site Team
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
2,781
Location
East of Sacramento
Bow season is going on around here right now. Over Labor Day weekend we were in Lassen NF. Cleaned out three different campsites. One had over 100 cigarette butts in it. Another had built the rock walls of the firepit up to about three feet and used it as a garbage can. Didn't burn it, just filled it up. Still another had fruit, hot dog buns, bags of potato chips, and salt chunks thrown all over to bait the deer in (illegal in CA). How do we know it was deer hunters? They didn't bother to take the parts of the deer they didn't want. Yup, left that in camp, too. :mad:

Next time you complain about restrictions on your sport or the lack of respect you get from non hunters, look in the mirror. If this isn't your style as a hunter, getting hunters like these to change their ways will go a lot further in getting cooperation from non hunters.

Stepping off my soap box now.
 
Ted, with your appropriate reaction to unacceptable behavior like this, you can climb up on your soap box whenever you want. I'll listen.
 
Ya, that sucks! It surprises me that bow hunters are doing that, they are usually better than that. I guess its changing though. Bummer, but thanks for doing the right thing. ;)
 
<gripe>
Bear hunters came in at the end of twilight to the observatory with headlights on, after passing two signs that read "Authorized Vehicles Only from 5 p.m. to 7 a.m." and "Turn Headlights Off". They sat idling with headlights on pointed right at the telescope, and ruined our calibrations. When I went down there, "they were just trying to get a cell signal".

During the various hunting seasons, I have to pick up a lot more trash at the local campsites than during family camping season. I know there are responsible hunters out there (I know and work with a few of them!), but man, there sure seem to be a lot of bad apples. I just don't get the mentality.
</gripe>

Hmmm, didn't see any of that from the bear hunters.
 
The 5% of the folks who don't think, don't care, do stupid things, etc. are always more visible than the 95% who are using their heads for more than a hat rack. Darwin awards aren't awarded nearly often enough.
 
Not being a hunter/not owning any weapons, I share your "I don't get the mentality" take 100%, high z.

If only the animals could shoot back.....
 

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They weren't hunters. They were deadbeat losers who happened to be hunting.


+1

Just think of all the times you find regular camping people trashing camps. Then what if someone came in here and said "all you campers are slobs, etc." Its just silly, they are looser/user people who happen to be hunting. Other hunters take just as much offense to them as other campers do to campers that are slobs. Unfortunately "hunters" aren't some organized force that can hawk over others any more than you can over the various tourons filling up national parks while littering/feeding animals/etc.
 
Not being a hunter/not owning any weapons, I share your "I don't get the mentality" take 100%, high z.

If only the animals could shoot back.....


Are you a vegetarian? Otherwise I don't get the mentality of anyone that looks down at harvesting natural/hormone free/lean meat from the wild yet will buy nicely plastic wrapped animal parts in the store that no longer resemble the cute animal they came from and didn't require the consumer to connect on the food chain level in that they had to get their "hands dirty" in processing the animal and mentally acknowledge where their food is coming from. Do you also say: "If only cows could herd up people, line them up into a pen and then put a spike through their brain before cutting them up into saran wrapped packages..." ?

If you are a vegetarian then I'll acknowledge you at least put your money where your mouth is and don't make hypocritical statements and will peacefully agree to disagree.

Edit: I will say I don't agree with folks that get hot and bothered to trophy hunt with no or little regard for the meat they are supposed to be harvesting.
 
It does seem to have parallels with camping. I find much more trash when I'm an hour from Sacramento than when I get further from civilization. I used to camp along the Silver fork of the American River, nice area, could take off from Sac and be there in an hour. But now its overrun with lowlifes, trash, and people who just don't respect the environment.

Travel further and it seems to diminish with distance. When I was on top of monitor pass (with the bear hunters) I saw no trash, no shot up signs, nothing disrespectful of nature.
 
It does seem to have parallels with camping.

Travel further and it seems to diminish with distance. When I was on top of monitor pass (with the bear hunters) I saw no trash, no shot up signs, nothing disrespectful of nature.



In general, this applies to foot travel as well. The farther from the tailhead and people, the less trash.

Stew
 
The way I see it, there are people that will trash up anyplace and these people can be linked with any hobbies and activities. So pick an activity and there will always be “the few” that will give it a bad name. Keep up the good work Ted.
 
Are you a vegetarian? Otherwise I don't get the mentality of anyone that looks down at harvesting natural/hormone free/lean meat from the wild yet will buy nicely plastic wrapped animal parts in the store that no longer resemble the cute animal they came from and didn't require the consumer to connect on the food chain level in that they had to get their "hands dirty" in processing the animal and mentally acknowledge where their food is coming from. Do you also say: "If only cows could herd up people, line them up into a pen and then put a spike through their brain before cutting them up into saran wrapped packages..." ?

If you are a vegetarian then I'll acknowledge you at least put your money where your mouth is and don't make hypocritical statements and will peacefully agree to disagree.

Edit: I will say I don't agree with folks that get hot and bothered to trophy hunt with no or little regard for the meat they are supposed to be harvesting.
 
My statement wasn't clear. I personally have no problem with hunters who respect both nature and the cycle of life and death, and that sounds like you, pods8.

But, at least in my neck of the woods, I see more trash during hunting season, and I get at least one case of "hunters" doing something inconsiderate (like the headlights thing) every season. That could be because there might be more pressure during hunting season and the percentage of idiots is the same as with campers. Dunno.

Anyway, my intent was not to flame responsible hunters, but the trashers of the forest, which is most evident during hunting seasons here.

I've often wondered if a paintball rifle with camera attached would satisfy some trophy hunters' needs
smile.gif

Probably not...
 
My statement wasn't clear. I personally have no problem with hunters who respect both nature and the cycle of life and death, and that sounds like you, pods8.


My response was actually in regards to Mtn's about animals being able to shoot back and such. I took that as an anti-hunting mentality and find it silly for anyone that consumes meat to think hunting an animal for meat is somehow morally different than eating meat from a cow that gets a spike through its brain before getting pieced out for us to eat.

Reminds me of articles I've seen in which some mother complains about a deer being skinned in a tree due to a kid seeing it. Does the kid eat meant? Welcome to the food chain. Our society gets so detached from the reality of where their food comes from that there is a huge, and conveniently warm/fuzzy, mental disconnect that the burger you are eating comes from those same animals at the farm the kids field trip just toured. I give vegies/vegans a pass on this part though because they at least aren't hypocritical.

As for slobs in the woods I hate them all around. Probably see a bit more influx during big game seasons because you get more folks in the woods in a concentrated time period that aren't necessarily campers but are going where the animals are. Not excusing them but you likely see similar stuff around the major camping holidays when a large influx of inexperienced campers roll out. Slobs are slobs.
 
Okay, I’m going to borrow Ted’s soap box for a couple of minutes. Feel free to run for cover. I believe we all share a similar love for the outdoors here and we don’t like to see it trashed by ignorant, thoughtless, or uncaring people. Strike that. We don’t like to see it trashed by anyone. And I bet the vast majority of us do exactly like Ted and clean stuff up and pack it out, always leaving a spot in better shape than when we found it. I also believe it is probably counterproductive to finding a solution to discuss whether one group is worse than another. We all are capable of being idiots.

I recently had a long conversation with the USFS Supervisor of one of the large southern California forests. Her take on the growing problem of garbage left behind is a cause is what she called “the arena mentality”. People attend a big event and are just pigs, throwing their trash on the ground because it is somebody else's job to clean it up. The Lady and I rarely go to movie theaters because we just got tired of being the only ones carrying out our trash while walking on sticky floors and trying not to step on trash and then feeling so sorry for the couple of kids who were charged with wading in and trying to clean it up. There may be some true to the Supervisor’s observation. Knowing the cause is only helpful if it leads to helping find a solution.

So let us turn this around to a positive discussion on how do we fix this, what are solutions?

I bet we already are doing two positive things; we pick up trash when and wherever we find it and we always keep our areas clean.

I like to see problems solved. What else can we do? I am open for ideas.

.............Ted, thanks for the use of your soap box.
 
I like to see problems solved. What else can we do? I am open for ideas.


Need to reinforce the connection that their littering = the trash on the side of the road somehow. When I was over in china that was a HUGE problem, they littered all over the place. When I asked my translator what was up he said they have a cultural mental disconnect that their littering results in all the trash piled up along the road somehow. :oops: However smokers seem to have a similar mindset in the US throwing cig butts all over the place.

Leading by example and having people see you picking things up is a definite start. Makes people think about it again and one good deed witnessed by another truly does inspire more. People want to feel good about themselves, sometimes it just takes a push.
 
They weren't hunters. They were deadbeat losers who happened to be hunting.
Well said DD. I agree.

The way I see it, there are people that will trash up anyplace and these people can be linked with any hobbies and activities.

Very true Patrick, There are ATV riders and pop-up camper owners and whatever other group you can think of that have their bad apples. But we camp an average of two dozen times a year and literally in all four seasons. There are always a few beer bottles and candy wrappers to pick up. But only at this time of year do we see this kind of trashing of boondock sites. There is a definite pattern that can not be denied.

And for the record, we are not vegetarians. In fact I like venison. And beef, and bison, elk, emu, whatever. Heck, I even bbq'd a rattle snake I killed in our yard. It isn't the hunting that pushed my buttons to the point where I had to rant. It is my observation that hunters, as a group, tend to trash the outdoors more than any other group. And this year was easily the worst we have ever seen.
 
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