How Cold Is Too Cold for a Hawk Water System?

[Wallowa]

I realize that there are a ton of variables that will determine when the on-board water system [storage tank, hot water system, sink and plumbing] will suffer damage due to low outside temperatures.

We are heading out in October for an extended trip into southern Utah and can expect some low temps there or in Nevada. My backup plan is to leave the cabinet door inside the camper that is the access to the water pump and several water lines open [20 gallon water tank is just around the corner inside that cabinet space] while the inside heater is cranked up during any extended cold temps.

But has anyone had the unfortunate experience of freezing/damaging water fixtures in a Hawk? If yes, what were the outside/inside temps and for how long was the outside temp below freezing?

Thanks, just trying to play "what if".

Phil

 

[Desert wanderer]

Last December I camped in Nevada in a cold snap. It was 8 degrees and the locals commented to me it was the coldest weather in a couple years. I kept the camper heated when I slept that night. Heated the hot water heater before going to bed (but not all night) and left the cabinet door open. Absolutely no issues.

 

[Ace!]

You might call American RV and ask them. If I remember right, they were talking about having to replace a hot water heater due to freezing. They might know how low it was when the hot water heater busted.

 

[Stalking Light]

I've camped into the low teens in my Eagle. I also ran the heater at night and didn't have any issues. I tend to keep on the move during the day photographing things so the water in my camper never sits very long without being heated and I expect the motion (and sunlight) helps keep it from freezing during the day.

 

[Wallowa]

Good advice; appreciated...a fellow mentioned pouring two quarts of [cheap?] vodka in the water system, then boiling water to drive off alcohol...water remains potable but potent!

My perception is that in dire times you can keep hot water heater on [some propane used] and heat interior with heater [propane and electrical] along with opening all turnbuckle access doors. points that I would worry about would be outlet for the external shower [in outside wall, but some foam could be inserted there] and the drain line that exits on the lower left rear of the Hawk, again an outside fitting.

Running truck motor to heat truck bed from the exhaust pipe/converter is another extreme move...

I am scheming on how to insert foam insulation between the top of the bed along the rail and the camper sides [tried foam pipe insulation but it blew out] ; to block cold air flow and try to create dead air space...disadvantage on my '05 Tundra is that the side walls of the bed are only 17" high; lots of camper side wall exposed. Rhino liner coating gives some but not much thermal retention to truck bed.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[craig333]

I think its really time related. I"ve been in the teens and no problems but only overnight.

 

[DesertDave]

I was surprised one morning to find the water system frozen, including icicle hanging from faucet. I opened the cabinets and ran the furnace for about 20 minutes. Things thawed and worked fine with no leaks. It got down to about 20 degrees apparently.

Since that experience I changed the furnace thermostat to a 'freeze-protect' style with a low (35 degree) setpoint. If I think it'll get freezing overnight I will set the furnace to 35 degrees just to protect the water system.

 

[Yukon]

I camp in the winter; frequently to temps in the teens. I have 1/2 inch dense foam insulation around my water tank. (I have an Eagle shell that I built inside myself). I wrapped the water lines with insulation just like you would do in your house. I do not have a water heater. The only thing that freezes on me is the manual water faucet/pump on top of the sink. I am sure that if I were to put something on that faucet to insulate it at night, that it would not freeze. I do not run furnace when we go to bed and it is typically VERY cold inside in the morning. It's a lot like a house with pipes that are under the house. You have to insulate them.....or run your camper heater and keep the place warm.

Chris

 

[Advmoto18]

The only freeze damage I've suffered was to the T-joint for the outside shower valve assembly. There must have been residual water after draining in the joint and it cracked last winter during freezing temps. This winter, I will remove the supply lines from the valve assembly and drain. In my Hawk, access is behind the cabinet below the silverware drawer.

No issues with any other water system components with temps into the teens.

Like others, I run the heater at night.

 

[Wallowa]

The only freeze damage I've suffered was to the T-joint for the outside shower valve assembly. There must have been residual water after draining in the joint and it cracked last winter during freezing temps. This winter, I will remove the supply lines from the valve assembly and drain. In my Hawk, access is behind the cabinet below the silverware drawer.

No issues with any other water system components with temps into the teens.

Like others, I run the heater at night.

Thanks I will look at that...shower is for my Bride...have a nifty folding shower stall and unless it is below zero she wants a morning shower...water conservation and "GI shower" is a work in progress...this long trip should iron that out..

Current "cold spot" on our October outing will be may be one night at 9+K at upper campground @ Great Basin NP on 10-5 before we move on to Escalante area....

Phil

 

[Lighthawk]

Hey Phil. The only time my water froze in our Hawk was when we left it parked overnight in 25F conditions, then drove from Truckee to Mono Lake in 15F conditions. By the time we got to our destination, the camper had been in subzero minus 10-20F for 24 hrs. The water pump wouldn't work and I suspected frozen water lines. We packed hot water bottles in and around the plumbing, kicked on the blower furnace and all thawed out without damage in about an hour. We stayed another night at same location with 15F nocturnal lows and never had another issue.

I should disclose that we heat our camper overnight. It's strictly for the dog! We set the Wave 3 on low and keep a few vents cracked.

 

[Wallowa]

Hey Phil. The only time my water froze in our Hawk was when we left it parked overnight in 25F conditions, then drove from Truckee to Mono Lake in 15F conditions. By the time we got to our destination, the camper had been in subzero minus 10-20F for 24 hrs. The water pump wouldn't work and I suspected frozen water lines. We packed hot water bottles in and around the plumbing, kicked on the blower furnace and all thawed out without damage in about an hour. We stayed another night at same location with 15F nocturnal lows and never had another issue.

I should disclose that we heat our camper overnight. It's strictly for the dog! We set the Wave 3 on low and keep a few vents cracked.

Yikes!...I forgot about driving in sub-zero or single digit temps...no way to heat the interior of the camper...crap...need to figure out a system..

Wonder with the top down, can you run the furnace? Worst case is to stop periodically and run the furnace with the cabinets open to heat up the interior..combined with some type of foam between truck bed rail and camper to lessen cold air getting in and heat getting out..

We have sliding windows in truck and camper...but I doubt the Tundra heater would push enough back into the camper to make a difference when we were moving...

I plan on winter back country ski trips...may have to "dry camp" and not use the plumbed water system [drain it] and only carry jugs of water....

Your hot water bottles were a good idea...

Phil

PS...Would an electric heater draw too much current? Seems like the alternator should be able to keep up...

 

[Stalking Light]

Has anyone tried opening the low point water valve under the sink and the hot and cold faucets to drain water from the lines but still leave water in the tank in cold weather before driving with the interior heat off? The sloshing in the water tank should help keep it from freezing while en route. You could then re prime the system when stopped with the heater on.

 

[Wallowa]

Has anyone tried opening the low point water valve under the sink and the hot and cold faucets to drain water from the lines but still leave water in the tank in cold weather before driving with the interior heat off? The sloshing in the water tank should help keep it from freezing while en route. You could then re prime the system when stopped with the heater on.

Great thinking outside the box SL....

Follow-up idea...if you fire up the hot water heater and bring it up to max temp then back flow it into storage tank and out the exterior [Left rear] drain you will be putting hot water in the normally cold water only lines and into the storage tank..

Phil

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

In the old days (80's and 90's) the issue was the electric water pump freezing-expanding then leaking
after thawing. we would drain and refill the system with potable ant-freeze then use bottled water for our trips.

We use our Eagle shell mostly in the desert during the winter time. Temps range 10 degree to mid- 80-s during the day, Freezing is the reason we decided not to have an on board water tank system in our shell.

 

[Rdy2Roam]

I wonder how the Alaskan camper would hold up in low temps. looking into purchasing one and would like to camp in cokd weather once in a while.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I wonder how the Alaskan camper would hold up in low temps. looking into purchasing one and would like to camp in cokd weather once in a while.

Give Bryan Wheat at Alaskan a call. I found him to be very forthcoming with information, and I believe that it was factual. We bought a Northern Lite, but it was really close between an Alaskan and the NL. Alaskans are impressive campers.

 

[Wallowa]

Baby steps, but yesterday I add a 4.75" W X 80" L X 3" thick Dow Blue foam insulation strips [2] to the wall of the camper exposed above the truck bed sidewall. The Tundra AC has a 17" bed sidewall, so the Hawk has 4.75 inches of the camper "exposed" under the camper overhang.

I used 2" Velcro strips to hold the foam strips in place and painted the outside of the foam black to absorb solar heat. The foam is R-5 rated. The 3" foam just covers the top edge of the bed sidewall so will prevent/slow down some air/water from entering the bed around the camper.

If the foam stays in place and does not blow off, I will reverse the foam in summer, add Velcro to black side and paint the outside white to reflect heat...

Probably me just pissing into the wind...but it was a simple addition....

Phil

Ps...I have an unused "Golden Rod" safe heater that I may try inside the water cabinet when and if we are plugged into external 110v...it is small/light and pumps out heat...alternative is the heated wire wrap we use under our house on water pipes...but both require external power.

 

[Rdy2Roam]

Give Bryan Wheat at Alaskan a call. I found him to be very forthcoming with information, and I believe that it was factual. We bought a Northern Lite, but it was really close between an Alaskan and the NL. Alaskans are impressive campers.eling

I've also looked at the NL and they are nice, but I keep going back to the Alaskan. feel like I could go more places and like the low profile when traveling. I still have about a year to decide.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

You're correct about being able to go more places with the Alaskan. It was a real close decision for us.