How 'Dust Proof' are FWC

[junek]

Hi All
Great forum

I am from australia and planning a 12month trip around Australia next year. So far a Toyota Hilux (Tacoma in USA) with a pop top slide in camper is top of the list for vehicals.

There are no FWC's in Australia as far as i know, but I really like the look of them and the weight of the smaller models. We have similar locally made campers but they around around $35000US fully optioned and not as refined internally. (Therefore I am looking at shipping a FWC over personally). They do look a little more robust, although the FWC looks well built for rough off-road also.

This leads me to my question...

Here in my fine land, we have dust. Lots of dust. Real dust. Red dust that gets everywhere. Everywhere. We call it Bull Dust and it is a pain in the but!
When people travel the outback here, they use campers that do not have vents for the fridge (We almost exclusively use 12V compressor fridges) and no furnace or anything else that requires a vent. (noone has a furnace here as we are generally trying to cool down, not warm up!)
Every external locker and door ways is double sealed with rubber seals to try to keep the dust out.

So my question is....how well sealed is a FWC?

Also, what is the general build quality like and robustness for off-road work? Keeping in mind, if a camper is going to fall apart anywhere, it will be in outback Australia!

Cheers
Jamie

 

[Overland Hadley]

I have just had my FWC for one year, and I have not had it through a bad stretch of bull dust at this point. But I can say that I have looked over the door and window seals as I really hate having my gear covered in dust. I think that the camper is fairly well sealed, but for long stretches of dusty roads you might want a little more sealing. From what I have looked over it would be fairly strait forward to seal the openings a bit better.

But thinking about it I have never heard of a dust ingestion problem.

There are a few people here that have taken their camper through Death Valley and/or Baja many times, they would know how well it keeps the dust out. I am sure they will chime in.

As far as holding up to rough road and off road travel, that is what these campers are made for. You have nothing to worry about as far as that goes.

Let us know if you have more questions.

 

[Hittheroad]

While I think the FWC is pretty good for most USA applications the stock version is not completely dust proof. We have had the 3 way propane fridge crap out because of dust on the Big Bend roads. Some dust gets in through various small holes which can be plugged once you find them but that takes time. I can imagine that in a situation with lots of very fine dust you might encounter a good many problems. If you can get one with a compressor fridge and no heater (or a wave) that would help a good deal. But the back door seal needs to be watched as well as the emergency exit window.

 

[SunMan]

No stock furnace or stock refrigerator in my Hawk and I have been pretty impressed with lack of dust as compared to my years of traveling with just a camper shell where every thing would be absolutely dust covered. We are talking about Baja Moon Dust which is like a fine talc and likely very similar to your BullDust. That said,i Haven't noticed too many complaints from friends who have campers with fridges and furnaces either though.

 

[bsharp007]

I have to agree with the previous posts, my Eagle was almost dust proof. I enjoyed many miles of driving on the dirty roads of Baja, Utah and Arizona. The desert Southwest features an especially fine gritty dust but I dont remember hardly any dust inside the camper once I reached my destination.

 

[junek]

Thanks guys. Sounds promising. I realise nothing is fully dust proof out of the factory and will need some small customisations. Baja 'moon dust' sounds like it would be as bad as our dust!
Good to hear the build quality/strength is up to scratch also.

Bsharp007 - thanks for letting me know your camper was sold on the other thread. Although i wish it wasn't! I am getting pretty keen on a FWC. Will bo cool to be the only Aussie with one!

 

[Smokecreek1]

Thanks guys. Sounds promising. I realise nothing is fully dust proof out of the factory and will need some small customisations. Baja 'moon dust' sounds like it would be as bad as our dust!
Good to hear the build quality/strength is up to scratch also.

Bsharp007 - thanks for letting me know your camper was sold on the other thread. Although i wish it wasn't! I am getting pretty keen on a FWC. Will bo cool to be the only Aussie with one!


I agree with the posts so far-have not had any problems out in the desert with my FWC and I've had it for almost six years. I remember how I seemed to live in dirt and dust in my old BLM rigs and my toyota 4x4-it went with the job, but again I spent almost 30 years pounding about where most sane people don't go unless they had too!!! Enjoy, and hope you don't get that one that is a lemon!

Smoke

 

[leadsled9]

I found my Hawk to be fairly dust proof. As far as the capablility to handle fwd terrain....well....that might vary for different folks.

My girlfiend likes to remind me that I break everything....trucks...campers...trailers...atvs...etc.

I really do get off of the beaten path and drive numerous FS roads and jeep trails on my hunting trips. I've had my Hawk back to the factory twice for cracks in the skin around the rear door. Both times the cause was broken framework in the aluminum frame at the rear of the camper. The last time FWC completely rebuilt (different design) the rear frame to prevent another repeat performance. So far it has held up. All of the repair work was done on warranty.



I only bring this up to warn you that these campers are not totally up to the task of hard four wheeling without some structural damage.

I cringe everytime I see folks mounting heavy items on the rear frame....water cans...gas cans...etc.

 

[highz]

I've driven on some very dusty roads on Otero Mesa. Some dust did get past the door and I had to dust the interior afterward. Given the thick dust cake on the back of the camper and truck, it wasn't excessive. Even so, I think the seal could be improved.

 

[Overland Hadley]

I only bring this up to warn you that these campers are not totally up to the task of hard four wheeling without some structural damage.


To be fair to FWC, the campers now have a redesigned door opening to address this problem. But yes, that has been an issue with the pre radius door design.

This is something to consider if you are planning on shipping over an older model. If you do buy a used camper to ship over, I would try and get it to the factory to have them give a look over and see if anything needs repair or replacing.

EDIT Oops. Did not mean to suggest that the new campers are perfect. Just that the door issue has been addressed.

 

[Samo]

Does anyone know if the five year structural warranty or any of the warranty is transferable to a second owner?

I guess I should be the guy that actually reads the fine print.

Thanks, Sam

 

[Bajaahh]

From what Ive seen and heard, the AUS outback and our Baja have very similar landscapes and terrain.
I take my rig down through baja many times a year and have had it through the notorious baja moon dust sections (too many times for my liking). I have noticed that dust gets in the camper through the outside vents for the fridge/igniter. The dust then finds its way into the pots and pans drawer as well as the silverware.
To fix this, I used the expandable foam spray on the smaller gaps on the cabinet interior.
When Im not using the fridge, I use a piece of the shiny bubble wrap insulation (that i cut to the exact size of the opening) on the inside of the door. That only works when the fridge is NOT in use.
When Im driving and the fridge is on 12v, it needs to vent so I just hope the the foam spray keeps out 90% of the dust...

Otherwise the camper has really good seals and has been bulletproof. I would HIGHLY recommend it for the outback. Any other camper will eventually fall apart. Spend a little more money now and buy a 4WC rather than spending more money later trying to fix a camper with wood framing. The resale value on the 4WC is also really good comparatively.

A good friend of mine calls the dust "Baja Seasoning" when it gets on the plates and cups..

 

[DirtyDog]

To be fair to FWC, the campers now have a redesigned door opening to address this problem. But yes, that has been an issue with the pre radius door design.

This is something to consider if you are planning on shipping over an older model. If you do buy a used camper to ship over, I would try and get it to the factory to have them give a look over and see if anything needs repair or replacing.

EDIT Oops. Did not mean to suggest that the new campers are perfect. Just that the door issue has been addressed.


Can you confirm that the frame around the door has been reinforced? It seems like someone told me the rounded door was just for cosmetic reasons. Maybe stan can post a photo of the newly designed frame.

 

[WaltK]

Can you confirm that the frame around the door has been reinforced? It seems like someone told me the rounded door was just for cosmetic reasons. Maybe stan can post a photo of the newly designed frame.


The frame remains rectangular I think, a molded curved plastic piece is inserted in the upper corners. But the frame around the door is pretty heavily built to start with. I understand that the curved top of the door frame made it more stable than the square frame was. The door is made up elsewhere as a prehung door and then mounted into the frame.

Here's a photo of the back end of the sample frame they had in the demo area when I was there this fall. This is one of the larger models maybe. This was taken from the inside through the front window opening of the frame. Note when the frame is welded it's not continuous welded but only short welds are used. My Eagle frame is welded the same way so it's probably normal.
View attachment 15609

I just finished today converting my 2007 Eagle shell from a square door to round top with screen door as a early part of modifications I've started. Part of what I was supplied with for the new door was the curved plastic pieces, which in the end I did not use because my design did not need them. I found that frame parts dimensions are quite variable and even the parts supplied by FWC did not necessarily match. The frame on my Eagle shell differs from what is above in lots of places, which I assume was sized for the appliances it was designed to hold. Don't assume your frame is exactly like the photo. (my original door frame was even more metal than is shown) The space for the propane tank storage opening I had to remove a piece of tubing welded right up the middle of the opening and that did not make the opening match the propane compartment liner even then. So I had to modify the liner. The frame behind where the fridge will go is a jumble of pieces in a odd arrangement stuffed into the fridge part of the frame, more mods to do, though I'm going to minimize changing the welded frame. I'm not able to weld in new pieces, which is what would be needed after extensive mods of what's there. Even the door frame was 1/4" out of vertical. I'll finish photographing the door and try and put up photos on the process I followed if folks are interested.

Walt

 

[jbahr]

Can you confirm that the frame around the door has been reinforced? It seems like someone told me the rounded door was just for cosmetic reasons. Maybe stan can post a photo of the newly designed frame.


Yes, the frame around the door has been changed for reinforcement. The rounded door doesn't have much affect on the camper frame, however the rounded door is a much stronger door because of less joints and no mitered corners to break apart.

 

[K6ON]

Yes, the frame around the door has been changed for reinforcement. The rounded door doesn't have much affect on the camper frame, however the rounded door is a much stronger door because of less joints and no mitered corners to break apart.



Pictures ??

 

[WaltK]

Pictures ??


I don't have a photo of the square door I got out of my Eagle, but here are photos of a curved door with screen door in one of their demo models. I'll try and explain.



The door you see, including the curved door jamb is contracted out and brought in by FWC as a prehung door unit. Like all prehung doors it really has no frame, that's provided by the camper frame. The camper will have the frame like in the photo I showed yesterday, with the outer skin attached under the flange of the door. (they attach the skin to the aluminum frame tubes using galvanized staples in at least some places). The prehung door is set into the opening in the camper and attached by screws placed every 6" along the flange of the jamb extrusion. Thus the attachment of the door is really only on the outside. Inside is just trim.

The square doors were done in a similar manner. The difference being that the jamb was 4 mitered together pieces of the shaped extrusion and the miters could separate under flex of the camper. The curved top door uses a single piece of jamb extrusion that provides the sides and top of the jamb. The floor tread is a separate piece attached to the extrusion with a square join in the curved top door. With less joints there is less to separate when the camper's structure flexes. As well, the thinner aluminum used also means the jamb has less strength to be able to pull joints apart if there were any.

Other differences, the tread on the square doors is not as complete a step as the new one, fairly easy to bend it stepping on it. The new one has a more complete thread, but still really needs support on it's inside edge. The extrusions on the older square door were thicker than the new one. The new one gains a lot of it's stability from the camper frame tubes, while the square one was a little more stable to flex separate from the frame. The new one would warp as I tightened the screws compressing the foam weather seal, the warp was not permanent. The older door jamb was attached with screws every 4" while the new curved one the screws are every 6". There are no screws along the curved top corners but that does not seem to be a problem. (the drip guard is a separate piece added on top of the door flange)

I would not necessarily call the new curved top door stronger. In fact the materials used in the jamb are probably weaker. But it combines better with the strength of the camper frame around it and thus has less problems. The strength and less failure is a combination of the two.

 

[DirtyDog]

Yes, the frame around the door has been changed for reinforcement. The rounded door doesn't have much affect on the camper frame, however the rounded door is a much stronger door because of less joints and no mitered corners to break apart.



The big strength problem in this area has been that the frames were cracking under heavy use. If all they did was go to a rounded door then this problem has not been addressed at all. Unless I am really not understanding and the rounded door actually takes stress off the frame here?

I read what you wrote but I'm not sure I'm understanding why we end up with a stronger frame.

 

[jbahr]

The big strength problem in this area has been that the frames were cracking under heavy use. If all they did was go to a rounded door then this problem has not been addressed at all. Unless I am really not understanding and the rounded door actually takes stress off the frame here?

I read what you wrote but I'm not sure I'm understanding why we end up with a stronger frame.


DirtyDog...to clarify, when I said "the frame around the door" I meant the camper frame door opening. The actual door has nothing to do with it. The camper frame door opening has been addressed to prevent the cracking in the frame that has occasionally shown up under heavy use.

 

[DirtyDog]

DirtyDog...to clarify, when I said "the frame around the door" I meant the camper frame door opening. The actual door has nothing to do with it. The camper frame door opening has been addressed to prevent the cracking in the frame that has occasionally shown up under heavy use.


OK but do you have specifics? I'm trying to get at the details of how they did that.