How much water and diesel do I really need?

[ramblinChet]

Since we have quite a bit of specialized knowledge here in this forum I am really interested in hearing opinions on how much water and diesel I really need for full time travel. Keep in mind that my RAM is gasoline so the diesel will only be used to power my stove, heater and water heater.

Here are some details regarding my initial plans:

Diesel: my first though was to install a 30-gallon TITAN tank where my spare tire is. It's a $2k part which isn't bad but when I calculate the numbers I am now capable of running my heater for approximately one month straight, 24 hours per day. To me that sounds somewhat excessive. I figured one to two weeks of intermittent use would be sufficient so five or maybe ten gallons?

Water: I drink lots of milk and even more Coke, although I have been working to reduce the Coke side. So drinking water is low on the list but I use it for cleaning plates and showering. The heating system I am in the process of designing will already hold five gallons so that is separate. Most folks seem to opt for around twenty gallons of potable water which seems fine to me. Although most of my water will be filled from a tap I am designing my system so I can pull from a stream, push it though a filter, and store.

While in the military, a fair amount of my training was centered on survival so that part of my brain says go for the maximum with reason. I am in my mid-50s now, I enjoy harsh climates, and I go places most don't so if I have a mechanical failure or become stuck I can relax in freezing weather for approximately one month before I even begin to worry.

Basic system - 10 gallons of diesel and 20 gallons of potable water.

Optional system - 30 gallons of diesel and 30 gallons of potable water.

Your thoughts?

 

[heinphoto]

I can't help you with the diesel (except 30 gallons does seem like a lot for your use). For water, we have the 20-gallon internal tank in our FWC and an additional 6-gallons in the water heater. We also carry 2, 2.5-gallon Scepters with our primary drinking water (although there is no reason we can't drink the tank water). For longer trips we also have 2 of the 2-gallon Rotopax water containers we can attach to brackets on the outside of the camper. So, a max of 35 gallons on board if needed. We seem to use about 3-4 gallons a day, so that would potentially last us 10 days +/-. However, I have also thought about a pump/filter system that would allow us to refill from any water source - water is one of those survival things that I never want to have to worry about.

Aside from drinking/washing/bathing, one other reason to have extra water capacity is for fire suppression. We almost got caught in a wildfire camping in Mojave National Preseve last spring. Someone in a nearby dispersed camp must have left a campfire smoldering on a very windy day and it started the surrounding vegetation on fire. By the time we noticed the smoke, packed up, and checked it out, it was more than I could handle on my own, so we left to find cell coverage to report. However, it did get me thinking that having easily accessible water for emergency fire fighting might be prudent. I have even thought about throwing in one of the collabsable Indian fire pumps to use in such an emergency.

-Scott

 

[Vic Harder]

Humans need a fair amount of liquids. How much milk/coke do you carry? I’d be inclined to carry way more water than what you are estimating. I built my Puma with a custom 30 gal tank, and have means of pumping from streams and purifying too.

I’d go low on the diesel for heat, maybe carry a wavian can too if you are testing it out until you are sure how much you need.

 

[goinoregon]

i like the idea of water for fire suppression. i rolled into a FS campground last fall, a week after they started to allow camp fires. i set up camp, then realized the the fire ring coals were HOT. last occupant had just left and didnt put any water on fire/coals. and this was in an area with all sorts of fire signage, and warnings. sheesh.
i lean with vic on diesel volume. most of the late spring, summer, and early fall, u probably wont need the furnace.

i bought a shell last march, and still havent outfitted the interior, and kinda glad i didnt. with usage, and more thinking, i am changing up my thinking of what i need, and dont need

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I don’t know what your water heater burns, but the Wallas is pretty light on fuel. My thinking is 10 gallons should be sufficient for a couple of weeks (maybe more) of heavy use. Jay Byers, username Hunky Dory, on CBrats does extended cruises in SE Alaska. Try joining that group, they’re much like WTW, then contact Jay. Keep in mind, they’re often away from fuel sources, so he goes a bit more than others.He is a good guy, and very helpful.

 

[Jon R]

If dealing with 5 or 10 gallons is easier I’d be inclined to go that route. 30 gal seems like way overkill - you are likely to be food limited before you’d use that much fuel.

I would definitely add 10 more gallons of water capacity if that’s affordable and easy.

 

[m5040]

I'd go for a diesel powered truck. Same fuel as heater so you wouldn't need extra and not explosive in a brush fire.

 

[Jon R]

He just bought that truck and had it customized.

 

[Wallowa]

Concur on water being a bigee...but even that can be appropriated along the way or you can go on conservation mode if needed...Diesel can not be 'appropriated' [sources found in BFE] and again, going with the law of the limits, figure out how long, where and what 'got to have' you will run out of first..spread sheet on diesel would be appropriate...not certain if weight or volume [space] will be a concern for you.

Humans can live without diesel but not water.....especially drinking water...

 

[AWG_Pics]

We have 20 gal of water with the camper and supplement that with four 2 gallon rotopaks. And we still buy a few one or two gallon water containers like Arrowhead. Hate having to go into town just for water.

 

[ramblinChet]

Wow, so much useful information from a multitude of angles - thanks everyone.

Weight is a minor concern of mine since this is a RAM 3500 with 4k payload and the majority of the roads I have experienced over the past several years are maintained trails with some unmaintained ones. Since the early 90s I have been building and wheeling Jeeps on some pretty extreme trails so my focus now has been more on back country exploration versus let's see if I can make it over that obstacle. All that being said weight is still a concern so I am not reckless regarding piling on pounds.

Regarding temporary and permanent solutions - when I envision a temporary solution I see two Jerry cans for diesel and four for water which is fine but I am not really keen on storing diesel inside the FWC. Many I have talked to say it is a non-issue but I have no first hand experience so by default, my desire is to store the diesel externally.

If I am going to store the diesel externally this is easiest accomplished with the thirty gallon tank under the bed - problem solved. Now that leaves me with two additional slots internally for water so six Jerry cans instead of four. And yes, I can keep weight down and leave several of the empty - same with the diesel storage under the bed.

Another person shared an idea of relating the storage capacity to the range of the vehicle although my plan is to spend at least two or three days in a particular area, move a bit, spend a few more, etc. I believe my goal is to spend 10-15 days out in the forest or mountains until I stop back into town to refresh, resupply, etc. Then again, these are just plans and ideas for me at this point.

I guess ten gallons of diesel and twenty gallons of water inside would be a good place to begin - I am just concerned with the smell of diesel.

Does anyone have experience or knowledge related to the SCEPTER or WAVIAN five gallon fuel cans?

 

[Jon R]

Diesel is relatively safe to carry from a flammability standpoint (Diesel #2 has a flash point of 125F or higher). However, from a property damage standpoint, if you spill it in your camper, you will be smelling it for a long time. If the container is vented or leaks fumes, they will permeate the fabrics and foam, and that smell won’t go away for a long time. Personally I wouldn’t carry any diesel or auto gas in my camper.

 

[Sleddog]

I generally figure a gallon of water per person per day, and usually start our trips with 15 to 20 gallons for 2 people.
This is for drinking, cooking, some light dishwashing, and maybe a sponge bath, but no showering. We refill whenever the opportunity arrises just to stay on top of it. We also carry a water filter in case we can find a source and don't want to head out of the backcountry.

 

[Wallowa]

I generally figure a gallon of water per person per day, and usually start our trips with 15 to 20 gallons for 2 people.
This is for drinking, cooking, some light dishwashing, and maybe a sponge bath, but no showering. We refill whenever the opportunity arrises just to stay on top of it. We also carry a water filter in case we can find a source and don't want to head out of the backcountry.

Sleddog is spot on....we estimate about the same consumption and usage..might add, I have used a lot of backpacking water filters over the years and the Steri-Pen is my go to device now....2 mins per liter; only one to take our viruses...in a pinch with our Hawk we could get by with the SP....our BFE times are about 10-14 days off grid...and we carry a 7 gallon carboy that we use first and then go to onboard 26 gallons...plus carry 4 one liter bottles in the Tundra cup holders... 2 persons..

 

[FAW3]

Water: My Hawk has the OEM 20 gal + 6 gal hot water tank set up. I carry 2 Scepter cans for a supplemental 10 gallons. Have, use, and love the outdoor shower. 2 persons can go 5 days and one person can do 7+ easily and this is keeping one can as a reserve. This is being reasonably prudent with water use…not minimalist mode. Having the cans with a nozzle allows me to fill water (onboard tank or jugs) by typical hose bib, campground/farm manual pump, or stream/lake. I find we normally roam into a town with water available about every 2-4 days when traveling.

Change the plastic FWC drain valve out for a real tap…won’t break & very handy. No pump…no problem.

Fuel: Ram 3500 diesel has an honest 35 gallon tank and my range is 400+ miles. I carry no extra fuel. In your specific case I’d try to use that spare tire space for your furnace/stove diesel tank and the clicking fuel pump. Make it an well integrated simple system that is easy to fill, inspect, and service.

 

[UmkaAndHawk]

Just for info: we are extremely thrifty on washing (sponge baths!) and careful with dishes etc.. [we have a separate 3 gal solar shower, which we use ~4 "showers" per trip. It's extra wash water, if it was too cold to shower outside] Our current approach has a 7 gal wash water, and 7 gal of drink and cooking water. We hike nearly everyday we're out in the camper. This winds up lasting about three-four days for two people. We drink only water, beer, and tequila, approximately in that quantity order.

For longer trips we pump/filter water from nearby lakes or streams.