I want a simple pop up. Is it better to buy or build.

[Boatbuilder79]

I am trying to decide between buying a four wheel camper raven shell model or trying to build something similar using ply and epoxy and fiberglass.

i have done some drawing and made some spreadsheets and I think I could come out with something that is strong and really close on weight.

I have looked at the glen l plans but I really just want a simple pop up.

Anyone have any advice as to whether it is worth it to build verses buying one?

 

[Squatch]

Only you know your skills and abilities. And your pocket book.

It's hard to argue with the quality and design of the FWC +ATC's. They have been making these things for years and most bugs were worked out of the design years ago. Fast simple set up and very weather tight. Both companies use very quality materials for the basic unit though they sometimes use slightly different stuff than the other company.

For a simple camper the shell units are a nice place to start. You could spend months building your own and maybe not get the end result and weight you want. Or you can pick up a used shell and spend your time and money making it yours.

I've got pretty good skill sets as do many here. I contemplated building my own but just never got started and never found good solutions to a couple of issue that needed to be worked out. I don't regret buying a clean used Eagle shell when I found it.

I've seen and read about several home builts that just never seem to quite get finished for some reason or another. Just like many DIY projects. Do you want to spend your time in the garage head scratching over build issues? Or do you want to be out using the camper? Many folks do and have built their own nice campers.

If super simple is a priority you might check out this new guy on the block. https://www.gofastcampers.com/

 

[rotti]

Then there is resale value.
Used FWC campers are popular and sell quickly at a premium price point.
Home built....not so much.

 

[Boatbuilder79]

I saw the go fast but that is too close to the rooftop tent on a leer shell that I have now.

Besides taking my boys camping out west I will also use it for fishing and camping in florida.

My goals for the project is to have a a camper that is light enough to fit on my f150 and still let me tow my 21 foot boat to the fla keys.

I want to have an ac and have a sink to wash up.

I just want a cool spot to sleep in after a day of fishing.Some of the campgrounds down there are super tight and the roof top tent is just not enough private space.

 

[Boatbuilder79]

how much should a four wheel camper shell model cost?

It will be on a short bed f150. And I want to put a sink in it and add a portable ac for Florida trips.

 

[Squatch]

I would start with a visit to FourWheelCampers website.

how much should a four wheel camper shell model cost?




A basic shell is just that. The camper shell with finished interior walls and the pull out bed. Options can be added to that all the way up to a fully optioned camper. Age is another factor on price if buying used.

Another factor is location. These Pop Up campers are mainly a western thing. There is only a couple of dealers east of the big river. Which means there aren't that many of them used here in the east. Though many of them seem to find their way to FL.
I had looked at an Fleet in FL a couple of years back that belonged to a soldier from out west. The deal fell through when his paperwork was still out west. A few months later I found a Eagle shell in Jacksonville on CL at an RV dealer. It had been a trade in on a motorhome. It was 3 years old and I paid between 2/3 and 3/4 of what the same setup would have cost new. Fortunately for me it was spotless and set up exactly the way I would have ordered it myself. Rollover couch and furnace stove combo and an extra roof vent. I made the deal on the phone and drove down to Fl from the Mid Atlantic to pick it up.

At this time the only dealer I'm aware of on the East Coast is https://www.mainlineoverland.com/
If you are thinking new give them a call.

Also watch the Classifieds here on WTW. Do your homework and be ready to act when something shows up. They don't tend to stay around long when they pop up used.

 

[DavidGraves]

Buy

Buy

Buy

Buy it and use it and live life and then sell it if you need too.

I cannot explain how I know this Grasshopper.

Buy

 

[Boatbuilder79]

A fwc shell is going to cost close to 14k if I buy from the dealer in atl.

I have had 4 windows and a roof vent and a set of Atwood jacks in my garage for 6 years.

My estimate is I could build the structure for 5 or 6k in materials.

How far off am I?

I was going to start building a camper 6 years ago but caught the offshore bug and got sidetracked by rebuilding a 21' center console fishing.boat then other projects got in the way.

 

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

Yup....I have projects that my grandaddy started..........interesting and creative projects.....some quite remarkable.

Meanwhile we have bought the best we could afford for what we wanted to do....outdoors travel.....and have gotten it done.

Of course one's age lends a little different perspective.

I would say look closely..... what it is you want to do.....build something or go camping ?

Good luck.

David Graves

 

[Argonaut20]

Can you build an aluminum frame? Sew the fabric part of the pop up? Build the floor pack? The interior cabinetry is likely the 'easy' part here and putting in a sink and AC should not be difficult once you get it built. You might sub out some stuff you can't do, or learn to do it yourself, and come in at 6K or 7K, but don't count on it. Then there is the time spent... Most projects I see here seem to take a while to complete if they are major. I know my rebuild of a small Airstream took 3 years to complete. The Eagle I am working on now is much simpler and will be done in about 6 months. Building one from scratch or doing a major overhaul on a used shell is going to take time.

An offhand suggestion: You might plan a road trip and buy a shell and have it installed by ATC in Reno, NV or scout for some of the pop ups made in Indiana. The wood framed like Palomino generally cost less than ATC or FWC and would likely serve you well as it doesn't sound like you are going to do really rough country wheeling.

 

[Boatbuilder79]

I called all terrain campers and they said my truck was too small. I have a 4 door f 150 with a 5.5 foot bed.

Four wheel campers makes one called a raven that I understand would fit which is what I have been looking at.

Who else makes one similar?

 

[Boatbuilder79]

I have built two boats using plywood and epoxy from this guys plans.

https://bateau2.com

If I value my time at anything I did not save any money over buying a production boat but came out with a much nicer product.

It seems like these materials would make a really light and strong camper but I have found very few examples of people making campers with good results. There are lots of examples on the internet of boat projects that come out really well.

What is it about a campers that makes it less enticing to go the home built route?

 

[klahanie]

I think Squatch nailed it in post #2 but I'll take the time to add my 0.2 because, in part, as much as I'd like to build a camper myself, I choose to while away some of my time on here.

I'll go out an a limb to generalize, and say no one ever bought a camper because they didn't want too and no one ever built a home made camper because they didn't want too.

Some people like to make stuff. Some people like to buy stuff.

The enticement to buy in this case is the availability of a suitable* consumer product (*subjective). Yes, one could make an economic argument about self build or ruminate over the host of factors that could affect the outcome but the desire to self build still needs to be present (at the beginning at least).

I think it really comes down to: do you want to do it or not ?

One great thing about the web is the many folks that have posted up their builds: plywood pop ups, teardrop trailers etc. Bad thing is that photobucket recently took away their own hosted pics; that has affected many threads. I hope you downloaded some over the years. If not I think there was a thread on WTW about viewing archived web pages.

Good Luck with it !

 

[Squatch]

Let me point you to a simple homebuild that really impressed me. I no longer belong to the forum it is posted on so not sure if all the pics can be seen. You may need to register if you are not already to see them.

i followed this build as he was doing it. I was very impressed. It's not a pop up but could maybe be used for ideas. He used a Glen L plan as a starting point. He also does very nice work and it seems to satisfy most of your basic needs. Simple and light and inexpensive. I was very close to starting something similar when I found my FWC.

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/95659-Building-Camper-for-Small-Pickups

 

[PackRat]

Skills + Tools + Time + Money = end result

In the end it is up to you...if you have the time to do the build and outfitting, can afford the components on a one-by-one basis, have the skills of boatbuilding which is similar to carpentry anyway, then try to learn from the mistakes others have made and from the successes of others before diving into the project when it comes to home-built vs commercially built campers. Just buying a partially outfitted shell might be the way to split the difference here if you want to do it yourself.

My advice to a friend would question if that truck ain't "enough truck" for what you will end up with if you outfit the camper with what you will eventually want to put into it plus your gear...if you had a 3/4 or one ton with an 8' bed, the design of the camper is much more spacious and will give you more room for everything, not to mention carry it all and two the boat SAFELY.

As the carpenter adage goes...."Measure TWICE, and cut ONCE" or, in this instance design what your ultimate camper would have by inspecting commercially built ones and start there...figure out what your truck can SAFELY haul down the highway and decide if you have "enough truck" (I am not sure you do) and go from there....

Good Luck on the project!

 

[ntsqd]

I think that proper boat construction techniques applied to a camper could result in an all-wood structure more than capable of surviving use on back country trails & roads. If anything the issue will be a lack of rigidity due to the rectilinear shape that lacks diagonal gusseting. That would be where the internal cabinetry can be employed as secondary structure to add rigidity to the overall.

 

[shellback]

I had a late model hardside truck camper that didn't fit my needs. I contemplated tearing it down and rebuilding it to suit me. Bagged that idea and found a project FWC for $400. I basically just used the original aluminum framing, windows, door and roof. Here's my thread on it. There's a number of other fellows that started with project FWC and built them to suit.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Some years ago, I thought about building a large sailboat. Visited John Clark who just completed a spectacular Herreshoff Gypsey Jack Ketch. His question to me was “...do you want to build a boat, or sail a boat?” I bought a nice little Montgomery micro cruiser.

That said, if you’re not in a hurry, it might be fun.

 

[Vic Harder]

I had a late model hardside truck camper that didn't fit my needs. I contemplated tearing it down and rebuilding it to suit me. Bagged that idea and found a project FWC for $400. I basically just used the original aluminum framing, windows, door and roof. Here's my thread on it. There's a number of other fellows that started with project FWC and built them to suit.

Has anyone ever bought a shell with the Short Cab Over and taken it apart to make a Long Cab Over? Or even more daringly, made an extra long cab over? I believe the longest FWC/ATC are 48" in the Cab Over. I am wondering about making a 5' Cab Over aka Queen bed, without having to use a pull out

 

[PackRat]

Sagebrush....if you know what a Herreshoff boat is, perhaps you know his famous "MISTRALl"? Built in Saugus, ME in 1938, a friend of mine bought it from the USNA in Annapolis and we sailed it back to the SF Bay many years ago. We left Annapolis on Thanksgiving Day and fought heavy stormy weather from a hurricane on our way to Bermuda...but were blown off course towards Iceland for awhile. Sliding out on the bowsprit to change into the storm jib at night in huge seas was scary and intense... I left the MISTRAL in Bermuda and rejoined in Colon to come through the Canal up to Acapulco and home to Tiburon.

We sailed that boat up and down the coast to Santa Barbara or Monterey and inside the bay and out the 'Gate a lot and wooden boat freaks LOVED to watch us put up sail, take it down and tack...which was interesting with running backstays if you are familiar with them.

Its now in Germany and for sale the last I heard.

Funny story...we depart Annapolis and motor down the Chesapeake Bay. Then at night, the tensioning arm for the generator cracks and we can't make power...luckily the water pump ran on a different fanbelt so we limped back to the dock at dawn. I was Chief Mechanic based on being a hot-rodder so we needed about a 16" flat stock arm with a bolt hole at one end and a slot at the other to adjust fanbelt tension....

Good luck on Thanksgiving Day!....so we organized a few of the crew to go looking for something to adapt....we had a pile of stuff from a NO PARKING sign to steel crates to all kinds of trash. I blew off all the stuff they brought back but happened to notice that the shack on the gas dock had a sign on the roof that had probably disappeared in a hurricane and had the stubs of the "L" bracket with slotted holes like metal shelving has only beefier. Armed with a hacksaw and tape measure I was sawing of a section about the time the boats owner and Louise, the sailing master for the Academy wandered down the pier. She had seen the masts in harbor and suspected something and ran into the owner scrounging stuff with the crew. He told her about the problem and as they passed the pile of stuff the guys had scrounged that didn't work.

Right then as I was sawing away...they saw me and while the owner was REALLY embarrassed, Louise simply said to him, "That one of your crew"? To which the owner said yes...and Louise replied, "That's good, every crew needs one of those resourceful types".

When the "MISTRAL" was sold about 10-15 years later, that piece of angled metal I fit to hold the fan belt/generator was still on the engine. The owner saw no reason to ever change it and more than one marine engine mechanic observed that the "L" shape was less likely to ever vibrate and crack off like the original one did.

Look up "MISTRAL"....it has been sissified now but when we were sailing her she was still basically as Nat Herreshof had designed her...a schooner with a stay-sail and what I think was called a "Bermuda" rig???

Her is a pic of her underway after she was sold to her German owner...we sailed her with USNA marked sails...