I'm finally seeing the light on diesel engines and the US auto makers

[DirtyDog]

If Ford put a small diesel in a Ranger I would be the first in line.

Not sure about Mahindra. Don't think there will be much for dealer support for a long long time, if it does take off.


Ford would also need to increase the Ranger payload quite a bit for it to be useful to camper owners.

 

[LuckyDan]

The disclaimer: The article is dated but discusses Ranger Diesels available elsewhere.

http://www.nextautos.com/first-look-europe%E2%80%99s-new-ford-ranger-may-give-us-a-glimpse-2011

I don't know how the stated towing capacity compares to payload capacity but 3000kg is roughly 6615lb.

 

[Overland Hadley]

At this point I am forced to conclude that the lack of availability of these engines is a conspiracy between the automotive and oil companies. Nothing else makes sense. And I'm sick of it.



I have a friend in the auto business, and here is his idea.

If we all started driving cars that got better milage, e.g. diesels, tax revenue would go down. (Think about how heavily gas is taxed.) If the tax revenue from gas went down, the politicians would need to find a new revenue stream. And nobody wants to be the guy that is raising taxes.

Think about it. There has to be a reason we can not get a car like the Ford Fiesta diesel, it gets something like 75 mpg! And for a long time we could not get the Smart cars, even though everybody is driving them in Europe, and a fair number are in Canada.

 

[Argonaut20]

Don't overlook the European tax structure on cars. There has been a lot of incentive in Europe to buy smaller cars for a long time. Here in America, we have had the F150 as the largest selling vehicle for a while and it isn't all business use. It is far more complex than just new tax streams. The larger vehicles were (are) cash cows for the auto industry. Witness the rebates and price cuts when the auto industry hit the wall. Margins on smaller vehicles are not as large. With no government emphasis on fuel efficient vehicles, Detroit did not feel the need to make strides on fuel economy. We will see what the (reluctantly passed) new CAFE standards will do for improving what we can buy.

 

[rich]

Agreed DD,

The options just are not great. My T-100's tranny just coughed up blood after 226,000 miles and I need to buy a new truck. My plan was to go with a 99'-2003' 7.3 liter diesel F-250 or 350 but the price for used is so high compared to a Toyota tundra gasser and the F-250 is so damn big for a daily driver and for some back country travel. I have to have four doors because I drive clients in my rig from time to time and I wanted the excess capacity of a 3/4 ton but the reality of driving that beast every day and giving up the Toyota reliability I am comfortable with kills me. Also I can buy a 2007 Tundra with 28k miles on it for what it would cost to get a 2002 F-250 with 100k on it.

There's just no good choice.....damn that T-100 for finally crapping out on me!

 

[Overland Hadley]

It is far more complex than just new tax streams.


The dealerships in America would need to get re-tooled and trained to work on diesels.

Not sure why the luxury car makers bring diesels over, but we can not get normal cars and trucks in a diesel option.

 

[bsharp007]

I think it's a matter of time because these vehicles are already in most parts of the world, except of course the US. I rented a sporty Audi diesel in Europe it was a lot of fun to drive and got amazing gas mileage. As soon as a small truck diesel or a true truck hybrid comes out I will buy it to haul my Eagle. We currently import 75% of our fuel, so if you think gas prices are not going up your dreaming. The only reason fuel prices now aren't 5 dollars a gallon now is because of the recession and lagging demand, that will change soon.



That's exactly right.......we should be demanding this and not settle for anything less!

 

[Rusty]

Gentlemen, I have had a 03 F-250 PS, towing a boat with an Alaskan camper on it. 17-19mpg....now, for the moment, that's not bad...BUT

There are things happening that you younger members will see come to fruition in your lifetime. maybe not us old guys

The Air Force has 3/4 ton pickups in ALL Electric right now....not much range but they have them.

Colorado has the first all electric transit system with tour buses...right now...big time torque

UQM has developed neodymium, brushless motors capable of delivering enough torque to be used in Dump trucks and Garbage trucks....and 25kw generators in a 7"d x 7" package

The military is testing heavy tanks with all electric running for 30 minutes before they go back to diesel

EESTOR.....if it ever comes to reality....which it just might...will revolutionize the power storeage industry entirely

Call me a dreamer....all you doubting Thomas's....but I'm looking forward to an all electric 250 with a 500 mile range and at least 100 mpg...unrealistic.....maybe today/right now......but I'm sure looking forward to it ...while driving my F-250 D

My son is looking to buy his first new car....wants a 5 door hatchback with a turbo diesel...and he's unwilling to spend money on anything else....get a whole crew of consumers together and make the case....maybe in 5 years...if they feel like it

BTW...I tried to buy a Toyota turbo diesel in 1976...they had them........in Africa...efficient...OMG...but not here....

Politics/economic turmoil/ downright refusal....and I know it's been said...collusion

Meanwhile...back on the ranch...we'll be paying the price to travel around....just got back from BC...$1.12/liter for diesel

 

[Accrete]

My wife and i shopped for a truck in 2006/2007 and finally purchased a Tacoma 4x4 v6 in late 2007. We frankly didn't even consider a full sized truck more due to past great history with Toyota's than any other reason. We niavely thought that the smaller imports like the TACO would get resonable milage over and above what a full sized truck would get. We were sure dissapointed to realize 16 when towing a 2500lb pop-up trailer, and only 20 combi town/hwy milage...then to make matters worse a co-worker sharing their 2500 dodge max-crew getting 21 all the time. Sure the max was more than our TACO, but it is also alot more truck! Sooooo.....we sold the trailer and the Taco, saving our money, and will most likely purchase a ford psd this spring/summer. No more small imports for us in the truck category (my 10 year old toyota echo still gets ave 38mpg and looks new).

----shifting gears to another mention in this thread...the idea of how much _truck_ one needs to do what many of us enjoy...fire trails, dirt roads, etc while exploring the back counrty.

We had fun in our TACO down what turned into quad trails, though i'm not so sure we couldn't have done the same trailes in a full size truck. And once one gets to an F250/2500 etc...they are the same width as a turtle VI, or within a 1/2 foot. So how big is to big?

just pondering.
Cheers,
Thom

 

[generubin]

Thom,

About truck size. I used to have small import trucks myself. When the family got bigger and I realized diesel trucks got better mileage than imports, I opted for a Dodge CTD. I had wondered if traveling the difficult class 4 and 5 roads would be a problem. Well, after all these years, I have found the greater ground clearance and especially the super low gears of a manual Dodge (75 to 1 ratio) to perform on these class 5 roads much better than my Toyota/Nissan/Isuzu variants. The Toyota was about 40:1, the Isuzu 40:1 and the Nissan 28:1. With the Dodge's 75:1 crawl ratio and the diesel's full power at 1800 RPM, I can creep slowly over any terrain that left my Toyota slipping the clutch and breaking loose. I have a friend with a manual trans 2006 Tacoma. He comes on most trips with me. On the difficult parts of the trails he has to slip his clutch (I am sure it'll need replacement soon) even in his low gears, as I idle through in my high gears (which are still lower than his low gears). And then, when we hit the gas station, he actually used more fuel than I did!

You are going to love having a full size. I don't want to start a truck war here, but having been a professional mechanic, I could not own the Ford. What I see under the hood of the PSD is a mechanics nightmare. What I see under the hood of the Dodge is a very reliable, easy to service engine. Ford now only come with automatic trans'. An automatic is the single most likely to fail, most complicated and expensive part of the truck. An auto trans can fail without warning and usually does. On the other hand, a manual almost never fails and if it does, you had plenty of warning. The manual also gives you the super low gears. The Dodge has a very tight turning radius making it drive like a small truck. Whatever you choose, you'll never go back to a mini-truck unless it is a diesel (if we ever get em').

 

[pvstoy]

Gene I put your same Dodge trans into my (not any more) 83 toyota pu. With the dual transfer boxes I had 215:1 crawl. I just loved that transmission.

With money and some work the Toyotas can have a lower crawl rato. I do like the older Dodge diesel trucks.

 

[leadsled9]

I must admit that I didn't buy my Ford Super Duty due to any mechanical superiority. I believe the purchase of any new truck is a long-term commitment to the company of choice.

I went looking for a Dodge dealership....and the one in my city closed. Then the next two I went looking for were closed also. I went on to find out that Dodge closed many dealerships to stay afloat. So, I decided I didn't need a Fiat truck that much.

Then....looking at the Chevys.....they closed 1/3 of their dealerships too.....and I didn't want to buy a truck from a company half owned by the government. We all know how efficient the government is.

So, it boiled down to Ford....since they were the most financially well positioned of the big three. That's what drove my decision. I bought the 100K warranty....but that doesn't do you any good if your company goes out of business. I also didn't want to go to 5 different cities trying to locate a dealership for any warranty issues.

 

[Accrete]

THX for the insights : )

I'm not at all biased on the "Big Three" automakers and still in the research mode.
One thing i know we will just have to pay-the-price for is an automatic trany no matter which truck we get. My wife and i are spoiled with auto transmission use. So far we've not had any issues. I know she would not sign off on a manual transmission truck. We both drove a TACO manual the same day as the auto, the TACO manual was the pits to drive for us. And in the area we live would have gone through at least a clutch if not more during the first 24K miles before we sold it. Think San Francisco but with icy conditions in the winter here on the Oregon coast.

Happy Trails,
Thom

 

[Bat]

Talking about a full size truck and a Tacoma is kind of silly, they are in different league and all about your needs. I personally moved over to a 2007 CC 4x4 Tacoma after selling my Ford 2006 4x4 CC diesel. I loved the diesel big roomy and carry anything but I no longer needed all the room or carrying capacity so a Tacoma was my choice. The Tacoma gets 17/18 around town and not sure on the highway yet, my diesel was 15/16 around town and 17/18 highway but it was lifted winch and other crap. Would I put a 4WC on a Tacoma having driven it for a little while probably not, on a full size without question.I have decide to go light and nimble and having the ability to drive both trucks they are no where in the same league. I am very happy with my Tacoma plenty of power and comfort but it is not like my full size but I new that when I bought it.

 

[chnlisle]

I agree with leadsled if you buy a Ford Diesel get the 100K warranty. And lik him be sure you're near a Ford dealership. You'll need it. The Ram drive train is already warranteed for 100K. Ford bought back both my brother in law and my step daughter's Ford diesels. Of course they had to get attorneys and didn't have the use of their trucks for months. Actually you might just want a Fiat as a back up.

I'm just sayin'

 

[leadsled9]

Actually you might just want a Fiat as a back up.

I'm just sayin'


Several of my friends who used to own Fiat trucks now own Ford trucks. They couldn't keep a tranny in them. One friend in particular has 80K on his truck and has had the transmission replaced THREE times.

I'm just sayin'

 

[generubin]

I don't have any idea why people make disparaging remarks about Fiat. I was a professional mechanic in Switzerland where I had the opportunity to work on many brands not available here. The Fiats were fantastic vehicles. The merger of Fiat and Chrysler will likely result in a Jeep pickup with diesel and maybe a compact diesel Dodge truck as well. The Fiat Campagnolo is an amazing 4wd I saw all over the Sahara Desert in my travels there. Nissan was #1 throughout the Saharan countries with Fiat close behind, Toyota and Land Rover following. If we are lucky enough to get these Fiats in the States, I'm buying one! 35 MPG diesel, super low gears, full floating axles, 4 wheel independent suspension, you can take this truck apart and reassemble it in the the field with simple hand tools!

 

[leadsled9]

I don't have any idea why people make disparaging remarks about Fiat.

I shouldn't have made a blanket statement like that. I appologize to anyone who may have had their feathers ruffled. I shouldn't have bitten on the previous post about Fords....I just had a "gut" reaction.

All brands have their good points and bad.

The point I was trying to make (then I'll get off my soap box) is that one must consider the financial status of the company they are about to make a long-term commitment too by purchasing a vehicle. I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time....so I want a company that will be around for a while.

 

[Ballarat Bandit]

I shouldn't have made a blanket statement like that. I appologize to anyone who may have had their feathers ruffled. I shouldn't have bitten on the previous post about Fords....I just had a "gut" reaction.

All brands have their good points and bad.

The point I was trying to make (then I'll get off my soap box) is that one must consider the financial status of the company they are about to make a long-term commitment too by purchasing a vehicle. I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time....so I want a company that will be around for a while.

Fiat owns Ferrari which sponsors quite a formidable F1 team. Their budget for that alone probably make Maharinda (sp) look like paupers. Anywho!

 

[John D]

We have a guy in India right now negotiating with Maharinda. The trip only costs a billion dollars, which is nothing. Look, a billion dollars will only buy about 25,000 Dodge diesels.