Just picked up a 1980 Scout with a Four Wheel Camper Pop Up. Couple questions.

J

JonnyJ

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Joined
May 30, 2018
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Hey everyone. Just picked up a pretty neat rig. It was a close friends that rebuilt 80% of the camper and fixed up a lot on the scout while he owned it. The camper was gutted and fixed up, New canvas, carpet, sheeting etc. Scout had a low mileage 345, 4 speed and lots of other work done. Fast forward 4 years and when he popped the top the canvas was rotted. He has since picked up a big pusher motorhome and was disgusted with how quickly the fabric fell apart on the camper and knew i wanted to buy the scout. So... question time.

What seals the top in the down position? Looks like rain can get in between if there's any good wind. Was thinking of using a rubber flap between the canvass and top channel when i replace the fabric. Tips, tricks, advice?

Just read almost the entire 375 post thread on lift struts. He installed 4 100# struts inside along the inside edges. Works great going up... but needs handles mounted to lower it. also appears to get in the way of the canvas. Was thinking of trying the front And back exterior mount with 40# struts. I believe everyone was using 36 inch?

Someone modified the front panel and it will not go down when the hinges are screwed to the roof. He was using it just flipping up the lower panel. Are the dimensions pretty universal on them? Are the the same as the rear panel? Looks like the lower panel on the front needs to be a few inches shorter so it'll fold and clear coming down.

Once up... what locks the top top keep it from falling forward or back? I see some pictures that have one bar to the front panel, mine has a 1/4" piece of round stock bent to look like a handle. There's nothing to lock it to on the roof. I was thinking of maybe installing 4 solid bars that i could latch from roof corner, to camper wall to give it some stability raised up.

Think that's about all i need to address at the moment. He's currently contacting the fabric place that made it to see if they'll warranty or discount repairs.

Thanks!
-Jon FB_IMG_1527349706864.jpegFB_IMG_1527349750193.jpegFB_IMG_1527349743639.jpeg20180527_105352.jpeg
 
I'd say he used the wrong material (a non-waterproof canvas) for his soft sides.

The soft sides used today are a multi-layer, rubberized and waterproof material, like Hypalon used in inflatable power boats, i.e., Zodak & Avon.

- - - - - - - - - -

For locking the top, All Terrain Campers (ATC) still uses the bent metal rod and anchors the handle to the top with a strap in the front and in the rear just a strap to hold the the top of the bottom panel to the top panel. See their web site, they probably have a few photos of it. FWC uses an approximate 1" x 3" board to do the same thing in the front and the same technique at the back as ATC.

- - - - - - - - - -

Outside gas struts are the was to go, IMHO. 100 lb gas struts are a bit much as you have discovered, unless you are going to have something mounted on the top all the time. Just the roof without anything on top and 40 lb gas struts are usually good enough, as you discovered reading the mega thread.

- - - - - - - - - - -

It's a tricky thing using the right components to get the lifting panels working properly, Pop-Rivets are used in certain places, because of the screw "heads" stick up too much. Find and read the various lift panel replacement threads for the details.
 
Alley-Kat nailed it, wrong material. Several wtw members have recently replaced the liner, check out threads by BBZ, pokeybro, others that are escaping me.

Later FWC use a tubular weather strip around the front of the camper to help keep water out while driving. Mainly the proper stack up of the materials keeps water out. Currently, the headliner is applied over the frame, the side liner installed, then the roof metal folded over the liner. The outside trim is then screwed into place over all this. This way water can't run into the camper.

The liner is the critical piece to stabilize the roof when lifted, just ask those guys that tried to lift the roof without it!
 
JonnyJ said:
I have a 1977 Grandby that I rebuilt and have used for 3+ years. I'll try to answer your questions based on my camper.

. . . Fast forward 4 years and when he popped the top the canvas was rotted.
He used the wrong material. Mine is PVC vinyl (I asked FWC); the stuff they make rubber rafts out of. It will not rot from moisture, although it will mildew and stain if stored wet.
. . .
What seals the top in the down position? Looks like rain can get in between if there's any good wind.
I don't know about newer campers, but on mine it shouldn't matter. Rain getting between the roof and the hardside cannot penetrate a good softside. I had a small tear in front on mine that was hard to repair so I put a 1/2" tube weatherstrip up under the roofing wrapping around to the side to channel any any water away from the front. Works well. You are generating a very high headwind when driving so the rain is going to have a lot of force to find its way in. I plan to add a wind deflector to the front, just haven't got a round tuit yet.
. . .
Just read almost the entire 375 post thread on lift struts. He installed 4 100# struts inside along the inside edges.
IMO the struts are too strong. I have two 60# Suspa C16-10198 inside across the front. This works well combined with a speaker lift to lift and lower a 100 lb roof. I have 40# Suspa C16-15952 to put outside across the rear.
. . .
Someone modified the front panel and it will not go down when the hinges are screwed to the roof. He was using it just flipping up the lower panel. Are the dimensions pretty universal on them? I would guess not. It depends on the height of the softside with the roof up (you want it taut, not stretched nor loose).

Are the the same as the rear panel? The bottom panel of the front is shorter than the bottom panel of the rear but the critical dimensions (distance between the hinges) is the same. From pictures it looks like they shortened the rear bottom panel to be the same as the front bottom panel in later models (?).

Looks like the lower panel on the front needs to be a few inches shorter so it'll fold and clear coming down.

Once up... what locks the top top keep it from falling forward or back? In the rear I have a slide latch that penetrates the ceiling and locks the bottom panel to the roof. In front the push bar locks into the ceiling to hold the bottom panel upright.

I see some pictures that have one bar to the front panel, mine has a 1/4" piece of round stock bent to look like a handle. There's nothing to lock it to on the roof. I have a rotating latch that holds the handle to the ceiling and locks it in place.

I made a complete set of engineering drawings for the rear lift panel assembly for Shellback that I could make available to you. You will have to ask him they are any good.

Like it! Have fun,
jim
Click to expand...
 
The place that did it, does lots of pop up camper canvas repair. They told him that the material was waterproof and wound not rot...

Anyone have a picture of how the handle attaches to the strap? The rear panel does have a latch that goes into the roof to lock it. Just seems a little flimsy that all that holds it from falling is a little round stock handle and a tiny latch. I'd think a good wind would cause some swaying.

Would an automotive door door type gasket help keep water out then?

Thanks for the quick replies!
 
JaSAn said:
He used the wrong material. Mine is PVC vinyl (I asked FWC); the stuff they make rubber rafts out of. It will not rot from moisture, although it will mildew and stain if stored wet.
Click to expand...
When he called to ask them why they didn't use all vinyl, they said most pop ups use that canvas so the material could breath.
 
For anyone waiting in suspense, bear creek canvas didn't offer any discount etc for the damaged canvas. They said it was waterproof and rot resistant.... So i went to the local canvas guy (that did the doors and seat in my other scout in 2007) that the material used was thin and cheap. He said he'll make me the canvas color matched AND install it for the same price as bear creek.
 
Morning JohnnyJ
Cool rig you got there. Also welcome to WtW. "LivingtheDream" had a good read on siding install, as well as pretty much total redo. If you need a lift panel I think both FWC and ATC sell replacements. I understand sometimes we have to use what we can find (speaking about the sealing the front to stop water intrusion) but usually the manufacturer has the better product and has the resources locating materials.
I read some where that not storing the camper in the closed position if wet was pretty important maybe that is what happened with your friend.
Good luck with the repairs, and Happy camping.

Russ
 
JaSAn said:
I have a 1977 Grandby that I rebuilt and have used for 3+ years. I'll try to answer your questions based on my camper.

. . . Fast forward 4 years and when he popped the top the canvas was rotted.
He used the wrong material. Mine is PVC vinyl (I asked FWC); the stuff they make rubber rafts out of. It will not rot from moisture, although it will mildew and stain if stored wet.
. . .
What seals the top in the down position? Looks like rain can get in between if there's any good wind.
I don't know about newer campers, but on mine it shouldn't matter. Rain getting between the roof and the hardside cannot penetrate a good softside. I had a small tear in front on mine that was hard to repair so I put a 1/2" tube weatherstrip up under the roofing wrapping around to the side to channel any any water away from the front. Works well. You are generating a very high headwind when driving so the rain is going to have a lot of force to find its way in. I plan to add a wind deflector to the front, just haven't got a round tuit yet.
. . .
Just read almost the entire 375 post thread on lift struts. He installed 4 100# struts inside along the inside edges.
IMO the struts are too strong. I have two 60# Suspa C16-10198 inside across the front. This works well combined with a speaker lift to lift and lower a 100 lb roof. I have 40# Suspa C16-15952 to put outside across the rear.
. . .
Someone modified the front panel and it will not go down when the hinges are screwed to the roof. He was using it just flipping up the lower panel. Are the dimensions pretty universal on them? I would guess not. It depends on the height of the softside with the roof up (you want it taut, not stretched nor loose).

Are the the same as the rear panel? The bottom panel of the front is shorter than the bottom panel of the rear but the critical dimensions (distance between the hinges) is the same. From pictures it looks like they shortened the rear bottom panel to be the same as the front bottom panel in later models (?).

Looks like the lower panel on the front needs to be a few inches shorter so it'll fold and clear coming down.

Once up... what locks the top top keep it from falling forward or back? In the rear I have a slide latch that penetrates the ceiling and locks the bottom panel to the roof. In front the push bar locks into the ceiling to hold the bottom panel upright.

I see some pictures that have one bar to the front panel, mine has a 1/4" piece of round stock bent to look like a handle. There's nothing to lock it to on the roof. I have a rotating latch that holds the handle to the ceiling and locks it in place.

I made a complete set of engineering drawings for the rear lift panel assembly for Shellback that I could make available to you. You will have to ask him they are any good.

Like it! Have fun,
jim
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Do you have more details on the tube seal to keep the water out? I am having small issues and want to add something to help when in the down position.
 
CougarCouple said:
Morning JohnnyJ
Cool rig you got there. Also welcome to WtW. "LivingtheDream" had a good read on siding install, as well as pretty much total redo. If you need a lift panel I think both FWC and ATC sell replacements. I understand sometimes we have to use what we can find (speaking about the sealing the front to stop water intrusion) but usually the manufacturer has the better product and has the resources locating materials.
I read some where that not storing the camper in the closed position if wet was pretty important maybe that is what happened with your friend.
Good luck with the repairs, and Happy camping.

Russ
Click to expand...
Thanks for mentioning me.

JohnnyJ, check out my build thread on here http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/11945-84-fleet-09-tacoma-project/
The first post has a table of contents and my youtube channel has all the more recent projects. Your scout looks really cool, best of luck with it. Let me know if you have any questions I might be able to help with. I used vinyl coated polyester for my pop-up material. Ebay, ~10/yard
 
Living The Dream said:
Thanks for mentioning me.

JohnnyJ, check out my build thread on here http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/11945-84-fleet-09-tacoma-project/
The first post has a table of contents and my youtube channel has all the more recent projects. Your scout looks really cool, best of luck with it. Let me know if you have any questions I might be able to help with. I used vinyl coated polyester for my pop-up material. Ebay, ~10/yard
Click to expand...
Thank you! I'll check it out and let you know.
 
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