Long Term Health of a Tacoma Carrying a Loaded FWCATC Pop Up

[danno808]

First time poster, who really appreciates all the good pointers found on these forums. I have just recently retired from the Army, and am starting to plan the next phase of my life. Will be basing out of SoCal, but ultimately want to spend at least a year or two camping and surfing somewhere between San Diego and the beaches of South America. I really want to purchase a Toyota 4x4 Double Cab Long Bed and an aluminum frame pop up camper from FWC, ATC, or Phoenix, but am concerned about what the weight of the camper will do to the truck over the long term, so have been thinking about a Tundra Double Cab or similar 1/2 or even 3/4 ton truck. Hope to keep both until the DMW tells me I shouldn't be on the road anymore, so don't want to buy a truck only to have to replace it in 3-4 years. Any advice from someone who has been down that road (literally) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ramblinman]

Hey Welcome to the forum, thank you for your service , and congrats on your retirement. I am running a 1998 Cheverolet Z71 with a Hawk and Air Bags - Regular Maintenance for me

 

[Foy]

Congratulations on retirement and thank you for your extensive service.

I've only been around one buddy's Taco (an '06 Double Cab) and I didn't much care for it. He keeps it fairly well-laden with a fiberglass shell and a bunch of tools and gear (retired from Federal Gummint service himself, and much on the move), and the Taco really seems to wallow and gets poor fuel mileage for a small truck. Both he and I are XLs in terms of size (6'2" and +220 lbs), and the Taco cab seems a bit tight.

If by "camping and surfing for a couple of years" followed by keeping your rig for a long time afterward you mean the camper would remain loaded up pretty much all the time, and particularly if you'll be running some other vehicle as a daily driver after the first couple of years are over, I'd tend to go heavy on the truck. A half-ton full-size or even a 3/4 tonner isn't going to see a great deal worse fuel mileage than a (nearly) overloaded V-6 Taco and you won't be pushing the envelope every time you climb a long grade on the Interstate, traverse a long rough section of trail, or hit the binders for a panic stop. I'd envision about how many miles I'd likely drive the rig annually and apply that figure to a range of estimated fuel consumption figures. A very possible outcome is the difference in fuel $$ between a fullsize truck and a Taco, expressed annually, is neither a deal maker or a deal breaker.

Enjoy the planning and the adventure! You've earned it!

Foy

 

[Foy]

Recognizing that "didn't much care for it" is potentially an opening salvo in a truck flame war, I should emphatically add that I very much like Toyota trucks and in fact presided over a fleet of them in my mineral exploration days back in the early 1980s. We ran them hard, put them up wet, and they were fine tools for the job. I just would prefer something heavier for extensive, extended truck camper touring having a large off-highway element, for the combination of reasons cited, and not due to any ill will towards Tacomas or Toyotas in general.

Foy

 

[Taku]

Look at Roseann and Jonathon Hansens JTAC project (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/90429-The-JATAC-A-self-contained-solar-powered-expedition-vehicle)
if you google it, there are several more articles about this build. And Jonathon will certainly have lot's to say if you contact him. We went from a 05 Tacoma to an 05 Tundra for our Ocelot since we wanted more room with two yellow labs and lot's of gear. But I miss our Tacoma too! Good luck.

 

[takesiteasy]

Hey Welcome to the forum, thank you for your service , and congrats on your retirement. ...

x2!

We love our Tacoma and don't notice any performance issues with the camper on (details in the blog linked in my signature). We do try to travel light and even so are usually pushing the GVWR. I am considering beefing up the suspension. One thing I would say is with the DCLB, you give up a lot of the advantage of the smaller truck. The wheelbase ends up near that of a full size truck- something to consider. We haven't owned the truck long enough to know if there are long-term issues of carrying the camper but I don't anticipate any. We take the camper off and store it in the winter so it is not on the truck full time.

 

[ETAV8R]

Thank you for your service.

I love my Tacoma. I can't imagine doing a year's worth in my Finch. An Eagle with kitchenette maybe. For the Taco suspension upgrades are necessary. Not sure about a Tundra. There is a new Tacoma coming out later this year so that might be worth looking at since there will be five different trim levels.

 

[danno808]

Appreciate all the quick and valuable feedback! Two things really jumped out at me:

1. The longer wheelbase of the Double Cab Long Bed negates some of what I thought were the advantages of having a Tacoma. Really want both the double cab (plan to add a lab someday soon, and the wife will need someplace to ride ), and the 6 foot bed giving me more living space in the camper for my long patrol, so unfortunately the Tacoma Access Cab isn't an option.

2. MPG is not all that much better with the Tacoma, particularly when loaded. I'm not afraid of driving a Tundra or something similar as a daily driver around SD when not using the camper, but thought a Tacoma would extend my range while driving in remote areas. If the fuel saving advantage is not all that great, having a V8 would probably be a better option.

Probably should start looking more at Tundras, and following the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton threads. Thanks for all the sage advice!

 

[Argonaut20]

If you want nearly ultimate Tacoma usage, read Kodachrome's posts on his Taco. Mileage I got with the Bobcat on board was 12 to 17 mpg depending on road conditions. The larger Tundra means more room (Hawk or Ocelot or Panther) but I will bet you will do some beefing up on the suspension there, too.

I was very happy with the ATC crew and the Bobcat, so I would say to give them a shout when you are ready to get serious about buying, especially if you have some individual ideas about what you want.

 

[takesiteasy]

Appreciate all the quick and valuable feedback! Two things really jumped out at me:

1. The longer wheelbase of the Double Cab Long Bed negates some of what I thought were the advantages of having a Tacoma. Really want both the double cab (plan to add a lab someday soon, and the wife will need someplace to ride ), and the 6 foot bed giving me more living space in the camper for my long patrol, so unfortunately the Tacoma Access Cab isn't an option.

2. MPG is not all that much better with the Tacoma, particularly when loaded. I'm not afraid of driving a Tundra or something similar as a daily driver around SD when not using the camper, but thought a Tacoma would extend my range while driving in remote areas. If the fuel saving advantage is not all that great, having a V8 would probably be a better option.

Probably should start looking more at Tundras, and following the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton threads. Thanks for all the sage advice!

1. We carry our golden retriever everywhere we go in the access cab. I removed the jump seats, built a platform for the dog and there is lots of room back there. We carry our water in the foot well under the platform. Works well. Your wife might not like it though.

2. We get 16-18 mpg, sometimes 20 with the camper on. I don't think you will do that in a full size unless you get a diesel.

YMMV.

 

[danno808]

1. We carry our golden retriever everywhere we go in the access cab. I removed the jump seats, built a platform for the dog and there is lots of room back there. We carry our water in the foot well under the platform. Works well. Your wife might not like it though.

2. We get 16-18 mpg, sometimes 20 with the camper on. I don't think you will do that in a full size unless you get a diesel.

YMMV.

Perfect, I guess the access cab is back on the table. If it's good enough for your golden retriever, the wife will get used to it! I really love the Tacoma, having had two since 1979. Thanks so much!

 

[Foy]

2. MPG is not all that much better with the Tacoma, particularly when loaded. I'm not afraid of driving a Tundra or something similar as a daily driver around SD when not using the camper, but thought a Tacoma would extend my range while driving in remote areas. If the fuel saving advantage is not all that great, having a V8 would probably be a better option.


Of course, fuel consumption is only one part of the fuel range question, the other being fuel tank capacity.

Foy

 

[brianjwilson]

The Tacoma fuel tank capacity is small, this is one definitely disadvantage. However carrying a few extra gallons of gas isn't the end of the world. I haven't seen impressive fuel economy yet but my truck is brand new and I had the trd supercharger installed. Likely I'll never see good numbers from it with the way I drive.

I will say that a double cab long bed tacoma feels significantly smaller than crew cab half ton, even with the 5.5 bed. My wife hates driving my f150 supercrew in town and it was a 2006, before they made the cab an extra 6". In fact the wheel base was 2" shorter than my double cab long bed Tacoma. However she loves driving the Tacoma. It has a much smaller and lighter feel, much more narrow and shorter in height.

Test drive a Tacoma and park it next to a suoercrew 6.5' bed f150 on a lot and tell me there isn't a huge difference. Keep in mind with the taller csbover on a hawk, you're looking at about 12" extra overall height on a half ton. And 5" of camper width, more than 6" of body width.

Most half tons will be overgross and benefit from suspension and tire upgrades too.

Granted I don't have my camper for the Tacoma yet but so far we are very happy with the size of the truck. I end up on a lot of heavily wooded mountain trails and my f150 was just too big and bulky. The Tacoma will still fit comfortably in my garage with a fleet camper and small suspension lift. Not so with a half ton.

 

[JHanson]

Danno,

To answer your first issue in two parts: We put 155,000 miles on our first Tacoma/FWC combination (2000 model truck, V6 auto) with zero issues, and a lot of off-highway use. Our current combination (2012 Tacoma V6 manual Access Cab plus FWC Fleet) only has a third that much mileage but has been reliable. We live seven miles down a rough dirt road, so experience much more regular testing of the truck and camper in terms of flex, etc. than many people do.

If you read my articles on OT&T (linked earlier) on the current generation Tacoma versus Toyota's world-market Hilux you'll note I'm not a fan of the open-channel frame under the Tacoma's bed, which I feel is a step backward in chassis rigidity. Actually there's no feeling about it; it is. In the Access Cab we note slight squeaking of the door seals over cross-axle obstacles. With that said, it has caused no issues yet, and I don't see why it should for anything less than truly abusive use. The camper mount itself is secure, given the sub-frame FWC developed which essentially through-bolts the camper (via turnbuckles) directly to the chassis through the plastic bed.

I think the Access Cab would provide plenty of room for your dog; our border collie rode there happily in a bed I fabricated. The double-cab long-bed Tacoma is a loooooong truck.

The 2016 Tacoma will have a new engine that combines low-speed port injection with high-speed direct injection, similar to several current Lexus engines. That should increase both power and fuel economy, although I'm expecting the torque peak to rise yet again in the power band, something about which I've complained many times. The factory also mentions 'increased frame strength,' which I suspect refers to the use of high-strength steel and perhaps a few tweaks, rather than a switch to a boxed frame. It still might signify an improvement.

Personally I'm not a fan of the Tundra. It's chassis is if anything less rigid than the Tacoma's, while competing American trucks all have fully boxed frames. You'd be moving to a bigger truck but a heavier camper, which I think would be a wash in terms of durability. If I were going to consider a bigger truck for durability's sake I'd move up to a 3/4-ton.

With that said, an anecdote: Our friend the photographer Jack Dykinga, who spends more time off highway than anyone I know, moved from a first-generation Tacoma to a full-size Dodge truck and camper some years ago to gain room (he's six-feet plus). After noticing some strange movement in his mirrors a year or so later, he found the sides of the bed of the truck splitting at the corners, and waged a prolonged war with Chrysler to warranty it ("It's not intended to carry a camper.") He's back in a Tacoma and FWC now.

You will want to reinforce the suspension. We installed Boss air bags on the stock rear springs, and Boss shock absorbers. But there are other ways to go as well.

 

[danno808]

Jonathan (and everyone), thanks so much for taking the time to give such detailed feedback. One of my mentors in the Army used to tell me all the time to "trust my instincts", and they are telling me that the Tacoma Access Cab is probably the right way to go. Particularly after looking at your experiences, I think it offers up the perfect balance of affordability, off road agility, and can carry a camper big enough to live comfortably on an extended trek. I've seen other people on these forums say not too overthink things too much, and I think I am guilty of straying into that territory by constantly wondering "what if I need this?" In my 2008 2WD Pre-Runner DC that I owned here in Hawaii, I hardly ever used the back seat to haul people, and if an access cab has enough room for a dog, then my only concern is gone.

I'll be interested to see how the 2016 model stacks up, and whether its worth springing for a new one, or just looking for a gently used older model to save some money to put into mods and the camper.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Aloha, Dan

 

[simimike]

Aloha Dan, I just recently went through the same process you are going through. My first choice was the Tacoma. But after reading about all the costly upgrades to the suspension that would need to be done, which at the end of the day you still have a truck loaded beyond its rated capacity, I decided to go with a full size truck. While researching one tons I found Ford and GM have heavy duty packages for their ½ ton trucks. These packages move the payload rating to the 2300LB range. After a great gnashing of teeth and rending of hair I bought a Chevy 1500 double cab 4X4 with the heavy duty package.
Wy the 1500 and not a ¾ ton? For starters they come with a smaller V8 than the ¾ tons (Ford 5.0L Chevy 5.3L) which have 6.0 +L engines so hopefully I'll get a couple MPGs more. Other pluses are more robust springs, rear axel, transmission and larger side view mirror than he standard 1500. I chose the Chevy over the Ford simply because the rear doors are hinged to the B pillar and you don't have to open the front door to access the access cab.
Now the hunt is on for a used camper. I hope this helps.

Mike

 

[danno808]

Aloha Dan, I just recently went through the same process you are going through. My first choice was the Tacoma. But after reading about all the costly upgrades to the suspension that would need to be done, which at the end of the day you still have a truck loaded beyond its rated capacity, I decided to go with a full size truck. While researching one tons I found Ford and GM have heavy duty packages for their ½ ton trucks. These packages move the payload rating to the 2300LB range. After a great gnashing of teeth and rending of hair I bought a Chevy 1500 double cab 4X4 with the heavy duty package.
Wy the 1500 and not a ¾ ton? For starters they come with a smaller V8 than the ¾ tons (Ford 5.0L Chevy 5.3L) which have 6.0 +L engines so hopefully I'll get a couple MPGs more. Other pluses are more robust springs, rear axel, transmission and larger side view mirror than he standard 1500. I chose the Chevy over the Ford simply because the rear doors are hinged to the B pillar and you don't have to open the front door to access the access cab.
Now the hunt is on for a used camper. I hope this helps.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. It absolutely helps. I think what I am going to do is talk with FWC/ATC about what I want on a camper, and then purchase the truck that can carry what I need. I've been a light Infantryman for most of my career, so I'm used to packing light, but I do want some things in the camper to make extended (6-12 months) travel more comfortable and self-sufficient, i.e., furnace, outdoor shower with water heater, solar, batteries, maybe a bigger refrigerator, etc. I will for sure keep the 1/2 ton trucks with the HD package in mind.

Aloha,

Dan

 

[simimike]

Dan, The negative to the heavy duty ½ ton is the price. They cost about the same as a ¾ ton. I decided to compromise on the payload of the ¾ ton over the MPGs of the ½ ton. Having owned four pop-up campers I've learned that every thing is a compromise.

Mike

 

[Fallbrook]

Double cab long bed Tacoma here with a loaded Fleet. The only suspension mod is the Firestone air bags, you won't need more. Heaven on earth. Light and smooth, easy to drive, looks great. We've done 80 nights in the camper, 25,000 miles since December '14 on a truck that's up to 135,000. Pulls a 20' bass boat with the Fleet on, and a dirt bike on the hitch carrier above the boat trailer hitch mount. We get anywhere from 14-18 mpg, obviously keeping it under 65 on the two lane roads does better than 80 on the highway. Best part is virtually zero maintenance, even with the high mileage. The gas mileage could be better, and I mean a bunch better, for the size of the truck, but I just can't deal with the work the American trucks require, especially as they get up there in mileage.

I was just in a good friend's f-150 (a 2011, I think) the other day, and it feels loose and has lots of rattles, and only 45k on the odometer. My 05 DCLB is tight, rattle free, and has needed less maintenance over it's life than his has so far, at a third of the miles. My 08 Silverado was junk, needed ball joints at 35,000. My 99 taco has 415,000, and has needed under $500 in work (not including tires) since I bought it at 65,000 ten years ago, tight and fun to drive. Granted, I drive like a 90 year old dude, and I'm proud of how well my trucks hold up.

There's a reason that they hold their value and are stupid expensive used. They're worth every penny.

Dan

 

[danno808]

Thanks, Dan. Great input. I think I'm sold on the Toyota, just not sure whether I'll get the access cab or the double cab long bed. I wish they made a DCLB TRD Off Road, and then my mind would probably be made up. With my intent to do some more serious off road travel in Central and South America looking for surf, I like the factory installed electronically locking differential on the TRD Off Road. Most of my travel will be solo or with one other person, and maybe a dog, so I don't necessarily need the extra room of the DC, but I should do like it.

Thanks for helping me out with your feedback!

Dan