Low maintenance Suspension mods - timbren / helper spring / other?

CamperSam

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Joined
Jul 7, 2020
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23
I have a 2019 2WD F150 V8 supercab which has 2320lb payload capacity.
I have a FWC Hawk installed.

I have e rates tires and have installed Timbrens and recently bilstein 5100.

The ride remains a little harsh and bouncy. I’m wondering if that’s as good as it gets or since the camper is a permanent install in the truck, I should explore something else?

- helper springs (hellwig?)
- torqlift stable loads
- sumo springs
- something else?

I don’t wish to spend a ton of money and I’m also out off airbags due to the need to adjust pressure and less reliable / more maintenance than rubber or metal springs.

What do folks recommend for a more comfortable ride? We drive mostly highway with the occasional potholed gravel road.
 
I had Alcan Spring Co in Grand Junction CO, build a custom spring pack for my F 150 Fx4 with a Hawk permanently mounted. I requested 1100 lbs additional capacity with OEM height. The ride is perfect on highways, two lanes and off-road. No harsh ride, no bouncy. Of course if I even took the camper off, I suspect I'd bounce all over the road, but I don't plan to take it off. I did the same on my previous Ford Ranger FWC Eagle combo.


They will make a custom spring pack to fit your specs. Took about 5 weeks and then I made a trip there, picked them up at there factory and had them installed at Top Notch Garage about a mile down the road. Alcan will also ship them to you.
 
The very best way to obtain a decent combination of ride and handling with a permanently mounted camper is with a set of custom springs tuned to the weight, as Larry did. Invest once and forget it. Timbrens and Sumo Springs are really just glorified bump stops and won't help your ride. You might be able to get away with an added leaf, but if they're poorly designed they can add stress risers to the existing pack.
 
Here's what I posted in another thread some years ago, and I'm still happy with the Roadmaster coil springs. They are adjustable. Assume they are still available, and were reasonably priced. Also recently upgraded my rear shocks and ride is very good on paved road and off. In the meantime have upgraded to E tires (from P) and that makes a big difference too.

Unlike air bags or extra leafs, they won't break or fail and operate only when loaded, and no maintenance required. I recently did a 2-week trip in my 09 Silverado 1500 with a camper at payload capacity, and it handled very well on all types of roads from highway to 4x, in wind and curves, and steering is fine. When truck is unloaded the extra springs are inactive.
 
I got talked into having Sumo Springs installed on the rear axle of our Land Cruiser Troop Carrier in Australia (I was in the U.S. arranging new suspension via email). Not only did they steal compliance, after driving across Australia and Africa I discovered that one of them had ripped off its base. Never again will I rely on such a band-aid "solution."

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We have Helwig's and 4800s (same guts as 5100, just not height adjustable). It's pretty similar to the Suburban we had of the same era set up like that. I feel the weight, but it isn't that different. It's a fairly cheap thing to try. Unlike the bumper options, it adds a real leaf.

I second the tire pressure question. A rapid deflator and compressor make a BIG difference off road. We use a Viair 450 and an ARB deflator.
 
lostcreek said:
Here's what I posted in another thread some years ago, and I'm still happy with the Roadmaster coil springs. They are adjustable. Assume they are still available, and were reasonably priced. Also recently upgraded my rear shocks and ride is very good on paved road and off. In the meantime have upgraded to E tires (from P) and that makes a big difference too.

Unlike air bags or extra leafs, they won't break or fail and operate only when loaded, and no maintenance required. I recently did a 2-week trip in my 09 Silverado 1500 with a camper at payload capacity, and it handled very well on all types of roads from highway to 4x, in wind and curves, and steering is fine. When truck is unloaded the extra springs are inactive.
so tried the google for roadmaster springs, and kept getting buick roadmaster. any more specific on the springs?? also, what type of shocks? thx
 
Roadmaster Active Suspension https://activesuspension.com/
I paid $430 for the pair in 2017; they are vehicle-specific. The springs mount horizontally above the leafs as a helper.

New rear shocks are Rancho, but upgrade from GM OEM; don't have the model #.
 
RamblinChet,

I appreciate your experience in the racing world, but I'm not sure how extensively it translates to the world of slide-in campers. Certainly, increasing the rear spring rate or roll stiffness on a car without doing anything else will increase understeer—I've experienced the effects myself on a Porsche 911 and a BMW 2002. But doing so on a pickup truck on which you've just plopped a 1,000-2,000-pound camper is a different matter. Even on a 3/4-ton pickup doing so is going to alter the balance built-in at the factory to some extent. The majority of the camper weight is going to be over the rear wheels, so it only makes sense that there is where the majority of the alterations need to be done. It's easy to suggest buying a truck that has "been engineered to carry your particular load on a regular basis," but the fact is that few trucks are actually made to do so on a regular basis, and since camper weight goes up with size, even the balance of an F250 will be altered if you put a 2,000-pound camper on it. Much less a Tacoma and a 1,000-pound camper. Not everyone wants or can afford an F350.

In my own most recent example, we put a Four Wheel Camper on our 2012 Tacoma. I added Boss air bags to the stock rear springs, and adjustable Boss shocks—thus allowing us to adjust the ride height, spring rate, and shock rebound depending on whether the camper was on or not. I did not do anything to the front suspension, as I consider the stock Tacoma front suspension to be far too stiff to begin with. The truck rode and handled safely with this configuration—and trust me, I tested the emergency handling when a car pulled out in front of me on a two-lane highway as I was heading toward it at 60 mph, and I had to swerve hard enough to break a turnbuckle and stress-crack the skin of the camper. I wrote about it here. Other mid-size trucks might be different, but altering the front suspension on that truck would have been a mistake.

I recently helped a friend mount a FWC Grandby on a 3/4-ton Ram, which is rated to carry more than this weight. Nevertheless, the truck sagged in the rear enough to completely throw off the headlamp alignment. Adding slightly firmer rear springs was enough to re-balance the truck. Again we saw no need to alter the front; all we did in essence was to re-calibrate the rear roll stiffness to where it should be.

Edit: I actually thought of a race car analogy. Remember the Renault R5 Turbo, the outrageous rally car of the 1980s? Renault started with the mild-mannered, front-engined front-drive R5, ripped out the existing powerplant and instead stuck a turbo race engine in the back. They flared the rear fenders and bolted on wider wheels—and I'm willing to bet they also installed stiffer springs and shocks back there to increase rear roll stiffness.
 
Take the Timbrens out and report back on how the truck rides and behaves. At least some of the harshness is likely caused by them and the bouncy is the result of the damping being designed for leaf springs and they can not cope with a rubber 'spring'.

What load range tires and what cold tire pressure do you operate with? E range tires run at 80 psi would be all of your harshness.

If you go the add-a-leaf route the easy way to decide on which one is to choose the longest that is closest to the same thickness as the existing leaves. If you are anywhere near the lower Left Coast I can recommend a shop that can dial you in.
 
Well, I was saddened to read your final statement, and I completely disagree with it. You invalidated the aspirations and fiscal realities of thousands of travelers, which I will not do. I'd rather help them set up their vehicles for safe travel, rather than archly telling them they bought the wrong truck and are making "excuses." We can agree completely that overloading a vehicle is not wise, but claiming that the only way to safely carry a load is to buy a vehicle capable of carrying exactly twice that load is a facile argument not supported by your own references.

You contradict your argument regarding roll stiffness etc. with the assumption that a vehicle designed to carry 4,000 pounds is ideal for a 2,000-pound load. How so? What sort of dynamic tests did you conduct to arrive at that precise figure? You're speaking of a ton of compromise in both directions, which violates your own notion of an accurately engineered suspension. Using your argument, removing the camper between trips would then make that vehicle dangerous. Meanwhile, I'm arguing in favor of modifying a vehicle's suspension to suit the load. And if the increased load on a vehicle is largely biased toward the rear, the modifications to carry that load need to be oriented largely toward the rear as well. That's not just my N=1 experience; it's backed up by thousands of owners and vehicles.

As it happens I have a copy of Gillespie's book around here somewhere with my other performance books, and I don't recall him discussing pickup trucks and campers. However I might be wrong on that.

If you'd like the last word you may have it; I don't want to continue with pointless back and forth. As I said I'm respectful of your racing experience. However, in terms of overlanding vehicles, I'm confident enough of what I've learned doing this for some time with a bunch of different vehicles, both owned and loaned for review, and also of what I've learned from others with even more experience than I, to continue trying to encourage those looking for advice, rather than simply telling them they bought the wrong truck.
 
All too often it is assumed that what works and happens in racing directly translates to driving on the street or in the dirt. While the hard physics of it all still apply and do not change, the environment is not as exact and the vehicles in question aren't tuned to the knife's edge like any decently competitive race car. As such those hard and fast rules in racing aren't so hard and fast out here in the real world. Pushed to the very limits those racing rules become much more applicable, but when not pushed to even 70% of what is possible those rules loose their hard and fastness. They still apply, but since we're not treading on the very outer edges of the traction circle their effects are much more subdued.

You want to frighten yourself, do the CG analysis post camper install & loaded for a trip. If nothing else will, that should slow you down.
 
Sigh . . . Chet, perhaps you missed the part where I said I agree with you on the dangers of overloading a vehicle. But I said I'd give you the last word, so please go on as long as you like about how wrong I am.
 
Hi guys,
Removed the Timbrens and swapped for Hellwig Pro add on springs. Have driven about 400 miles.

Night and day difference, the suspension is a little softer and suspension travel has increased so the ride is a lot more compliant, especially on square edged hits. I still need to spend some time dialing in the pre-load (U bolt tension) since the rear sags approx 0.5” to the front.

E rated tires at 45/55Psi F/R - didn’t change these pressure set points between the suspension mods.

Without wishing to reopen the vehicle dynamics discussion....
One thing to note is that the truck being level and not sagging at the rear is also a factor in the balance and traction (since the effective CoG will shift rearward if the rear suspension is sagging).

This set up works well for us, especially with the Bilstein 5100’s. A future mid May be to swap out the front shocks also, but that doesn’t seem like a necessity right now.
 
Are the Hellwigs somewhat adjustable? Just wondering what they would be like with the camper off?
 

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