New Diesel Trucks and the use of DEF

[Bombsight]

Anyone using Diesel Exhaust Fluid in their trucks?

Curious as to everyone's thoughts on the matter.

Pro or Con?

 

[Bigfoot Dave]

I use DEF in my 2012 and 2015 F350s. They sure get better mileage than my 2006 Chev 3500. Other than having to add it every so often I have had no problems with it. It does hurt my mileage ego when the "cleaning exhaust" light comes on but it is still way better than the 2006 2500. Have a great day! Bigfoot Dave

 

[Bombsight]

I use DEF in my 2012 and 2015 F350s. They sure get better mileage than my 2006 Chev 3500. Other than having to add it every so often I have had no problems with it. It does hurt my mileage ego when the "cleaning exhaust" light comes on but it is still way better than the 2006 2500. Have a great day! Bigfoot Dave

2500 or 3500 .... bias suspect not knowing what you have. If thats just a typo, thanks for the info.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Anyone using Diesel Exhaust Fluid in their trucks?

Curious as to everyone's thoughts on the matter.

Pro or Con?

If you want it to run full power, better keep it supplied with def. It's a minor inconvenience, but it is what it is.

 

[jackattack]

If the emissions system requires DEF, you won't get far without it. They're quiet, clean, efficient and plenty powerful.

 

[Bombsight]

If anyone was building a SHTF rig, they would be up a creek without it wouldn't they?
Shelf life isn't that impressive.

 

[Bad Habit]

~1000 miles to the gallon. Correct it doesn't have a great shelf life, it will start crystallizing after awhile. Also freezes easy, I understand it's that's more of a problem on the Chevys with where the tank sits (also looks scary for anything remotely off-road) but all have heaters built in. Not sure about the Dodges (or any of the smaller car based diesels). I "think" it gets used more when under a heavy load, where the DPF (and associated regen- extra fuel dumped to burn off soot) is more on a light load.

I've "heard" there's ways to make that all go away

 

[Bombsight]

Its my understanding that Dodge met epa requirements and doesn't have DEF.

I also hear that any DEF requiring diesel model truck made after 2011 will not pass inspection if the rig is altered. How true that is I don't know. I would hope that if SHTF, there would be a hack known so those needing to leave a bad situation could get far enough away without needing unavailable DEF.
Something to consider in todays times.

 

[Bad Habit]

I believe Dodge had to go to a DEF system in 2013. The requirements of the EPA just keep getting tougher and it's getting more difficult to have diesels meet all the different emissions requirements that get stricter each year. DEF is just synthetic Urea and deionized water, it is used to cut NOx levels (higher when running a lean fuel mixture). Must be pure though so no making your own after recycling a bunch of beer.

Depending on the state/local requirements for inspections where you live, you are correct, an altered vehicle would not pass. If it came down to the SHTF then any modern vehicle is at risk. an old cummins or even Ford 7.3l that can run on old tranny fluid would be best. Painful until that point though

 

[smlobx]

I have several diesel vehicles (construction).
IMHO the newer diesels have finally figured out how to meet the epa regs dependably. I have a 2014 Jeep GC Ecodiesel with the 3.0l and it has been very dependable in the 20k miles I have driven it. Jeep (and Dodge Ram Ecodiesel) are designed to go about 10,000 miles between oil changes and def refills so it's not a big deal. My GC has averaged +/- 27 mpg and gets over 30 on long highway runs.

Having said that my expo rig that we are going to put our new Hallmark Everest on is a 2006 F-350 SRW that doesn't have the emission garbage on it. The reason we chose to go this route is that in some areas, like certain areas of Mexico and Central America they don't always have ulsd which is also a requirement of the newer diesels...

 

[Vic]

I've had 4 diesels over the last 15 years (97 Dodge 12 valve, 99 Dodge 24 valve, 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, and my 2014) and I had a little trepidation about the DEF requirement on the 14 when I bought it. Dodge tried hard to comply with the tier 2 diesel emissions from 1/1/07 through ~2012 by using a non-DEF solution and had (at least as I have heard) many many problems. I would be very leery of a non DEF in those years.

Having now had my 6.7 2014 Ram for a year and 1/2 and ~15000 miles, I'm sold on DEF. I get 2.5 gallon jugs at Walmart for about 10 bucks and am getting about 1500 miles/ gallon of DEF. The trade off for this powerful, quiet, clean diesel is worth it in my mind.

If you want a true emissions free Dodge you'd be looking at a pre 1998 12 valve, but those trucks are pushing 20 years old and have their own set of trade-offs. Not so much with the bullet proof Cummins, but with the rest of the Dodge.

My 2 cents.

 

[nobueno]

One thing I've found is to fill up at a truck stop with a DEF pump any time you see them. Cost is only ~$2.50/gallon and much easier to top off than with the jugs.

We did wake up one morning after camping slightly below zero and our DEF indicator was saying x miles til it would limit our speed. We ended up limping to the closest dealer limited to 55mph. Another 30 miles and it was going to limit our speed to 4mph. No that's not a typo, 4mph. They said the injector went bad overnight somehow. Replaced it and got on our way quick but it was still a pain. Glad we weren't any further from civilization.

 

[Kolockum]

One thing I've found is to fill up at a truck stop with a DEF pump any time you see them. Cost is only ~$2.50/gallon and much easier to top off than with the jugs.

We did wake up one morning after camping slightly below zero and our DEF indicator was saying x miles til it would limit our speed. We ended up limping to the closest dealer limited to 55mph. Another 30 miles and it was going to limit our speed to 4mph. No that's not a typo, 4mph. They said the injector went bad overnight somehow. Replaced it and got on our way quick but it was still a pain. Glad we weren't any further from civilization.

That is my one concern with diesel. My old Wildland Fire Crew had a diesel Ford F350 and every now and then it would give us a 50 mile warning instead of the 200 the owners manual stated, which could get hairy on fires. We made sure to carry sparejugs of spare DEF. Also it seems in really bad air conditions (thick smoke) the DEF would get used up faster.

 

[nobueno]

That is my one concern with diesel. My old Wildland Fire Crew had a diesel Ford F350 and every now and then it would give us a 50 mile warning instead of the 200 the owners manual stated, which could get hairy on fires. We made sure to carry sparejugs of spare DEF. Also it seems in really bad air conditions (thick smoke) the DEF would get used up faster.

Ours gives us an 800 mile warning and have had no issue with that or running out. This was a false negative. It had plenty of fluid but since the injector was fouled it thought we ran out.

I'm wondering if there is some type of obd2 plugin that could maybe reset that code in an emergency. I know it's a long shot but I'm hoping for something.

 

[PaulT]

Ours gives us an 800 mile warning and have had no issue with that or running out. This was a false negative. It had plenty of fluid but since the injector was fouled it thought we ran out.
I'm wondering if there is some type of obd2 plugin that could maybe reset that code in an emergency. I know it's a long shot but I'm hoping for something.

Check out the Bluedriver OBD II bluetooth connector. http://www.lemurmonitors.com/
Apparently it works with diesel pickups from 2004 and later except the Ford 7.3l. There is a section to enter vehicle year, make, & model to see if it is supported.

Paul

 

[Bad Habit]

No emergency bypassing the emission systems. If you're out of DEF, it will at best hobble you, and then eventually shut you down. That includes bad sensors and incorrect readings. End of the day, try and keep the DEF above half full and you should be fine, until you aren't.

 

[nobueno]

Check out the Bluedriver OBD II bluetooth connector. http://www.lemurmonitors.com/
Apparently it works with diesel pickups from 2004 and later except the Ford 7.3l. There is a section to enter vehicle year, make, & model to see if it is supported.

Paul

yea, i submitted a question to them yesterday to see if what i want to do is possible. my truck is supported but is the function i'm looking for?

No emergency bypassing the emission systems. If you're out of DEF, it will at best hobble you, and then eventually shut you down. That includes bad sensors and incorrect readings. End of the day, try and keep the DEF above half full and you should be fine, until you aren't.

well, now i have a hard time accepting that. is there a solution currently? maybe, maybe not. but there is a fix for it. it's just a computer telling the truck what to do, therefore there is just a set of commands telling it to limit your speed. i'm currently back in school for software development so maybe this will be my next project....

again, i'm not doing this to avoid using def, i've never come close to running out, but i really don't want to have another breakdown like it did.

 

[nobueno]

i've heard it can freeze easily but haven't experienced that. we've spent a number of days below zero and we have a gmc where the tank is hanging out the bottom exposed. the lowest we were in was -13 and it was fine those 2 days. not saying it won't freeze but it wasn't my experience (yet). also, if it gets much colder than that i'm not so sure i'll be out camping anyway haha.

 

[Bad Habit]

DEF is mainly water, so it will freeze. The tanks have heater elements in it to thaw it out so the pick up tube can reach liquid. On my Ford they mention numerous times not to overfill as the filler neck can freeze and crack. The tank locations of the GMs always looked real suspect to me, I could see tearing that out real easily.

Yes, there are ways to bypass the programming. "Offroad" tuners are available that will allow you to remove the DEF injection, DPF, and EGR completely. I've not heard of using one to just shut down the DEF system, although I'm sure it would be possible, it would jut be a matter of finding someone that would write the tune. I do know you don't want to run a DPF off tune without removing the DPF. Without the regenerations, the DPF will quickly clog and then you will be stranded and the only recourse is to remove it.

As you would imagine, the EPA (and by association, any state entity) and vehicle manufacturers frown on doing anything to the emissions systems. Although it is done quite a bit, and with a good tune, fuel mileage goes up, no more chance of being stranded by a bad sensor. If all of the diesel pick ups had their emissions removed, it would probably still be less harmful than just 1 of the ocean cargo ships burning heavy fuel oil

 

[nobueno]

yea, i know it will freeze, i think they said it starts to slush at like 12-15 degrees. that's why i was happy to report that we didn't have any issues running when it was that cold. hell it didn't even crank hard at -13 without being plugged in.

again i'm not looking to run with whole emissions setup off for kicks. i'm just saying i'd like to reset the speed governor in case of an emergency so i'm not limping to a shop at 4mph. i doubt running even an extra 100-200 miles is going to cause any damage, you think?

the people at blue driver (the obdii sensor) got back to me and said they are just a monitoring software and there is no back and forth with their software yet. but hey did say they're working on some stuff, like initiating a dpf regen cycle.