New Member

[CPT Davenport]

Good morning,

Thank you for all the amazing information you have provided in this forum!

My wife and I have managed to launch 2 of three children out into the world. The third should be fledging the nest in the next year. In preparation for our new found freedom and eventual retirement, we have purchased a 2022 Hawk side dinette (wont be built and ready until July). In addition we have ordered a Klamath 16EXW "Tinnie" (ready for pick up in April) to tow behind the fwc. A rig combo I have dreamt of since childhood.

We own a 2017 Silverado 1500 (only 30k on odometer as we only use for camping) with max tow package, paylaod of #1860, GVWR of #7200. Toyo LT285/70R17 Open Country ATs, Bilstein shocks and SuperSprings.

This rig has served us well towing our Jayco pop up tent trailer. I realize we are close to maxing out the 1/2 ton, but we will run it and see how she does. We are excited for the upgrade to the Hawk/Klamath combo and the adventures that will follow.

Many questions to come! We have 7 months to wait so this forum keeps the dream alive!

 

[AWG_Pics]

Welcome to the WTW community. You will find a friendly diverse group of folks that have a deep reservoir of knowledge. We were in you situation 3 years ago -- awaiting a new Hawk for our new Tundra. Transitioning from a lifetime of tents / backpacks and such. We have since been on several 3 week long trips, as well as numerous shorter jaunts, and have come to love the ease of the Hawk for pretty much everything. Looking forward to your trip reports, photos, mods, and questions.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Welcome to the cult.Yes there is a reservoir of info here.
Good advise/knowledge.Ask away.

I have a ATC Bobcat and these campers open up a great area of fun and adventure.
Your wait will go by quickly.
Frank

 

[fish more]

Welcome to WTW !!

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Hi CPT Davenport, welcome aboard. We look FWC to seeing your new camper and tinnie. I’ve got a Gregor 14.5 that I need to get back in the wet.

Pictures of campers are always in vogue.

 

[Jon R]

What did you decide to do for a battery and charging setup?

 

[CPT Davenport]

Thanks all.

I will be going with my own set up. 200watt thin flexible panel up top. Auxiliary folding 100w panel for the extra push if I need it and a 200ah lithium battery. Mppt charge controller with 1000watt inverter (watching movies and charging cordless tool batteries). Going to lithium under the hood as well for weight savings. I can do all of this for a fraction of the cost that was offered by fwc. I have the same set up in an off grid cabin in Humboldt. Works perfectly and keeps up fine with all I need. I just need a 100% confirmation that the truck alternator charging system the fwc comes with will be ok with the lithium. Salesman said no problem but I want to be sure.

 

[Jon R]

Are you talking about using a lithium battery as a truck starting battery? I don’t think lithium is going to tolerate the temperature conditions under the hood very well, and also may not be able to deliver adequate cranking amps.

You can make do with the factory 10 awg wiring and Blue Sea ACR, but you won’t be happy with the slow charging rate, and you could overcharge the battery as well. In my opinion, a 30 amp dc to dc charger designed for lithium located near the camper battery with 6awg or larger wiring for the entire run between the truck and camper batteries is a good size selection for 200 ah system where you typically use 25 to 40% of the battery per day. That allows you to get a day’s worth of charge from 2 to 3 hours of driving. A lot of us here use the Victron Orion 12/12-30 chargers, but there are others out there.

If you always camp in relatively sunny conditions your solar might be sufficient on its own, though.

 

[CPT Davenport]

Are you talking about using a lithium battery as a truck starting battery? I don’t think lithium is going to tolerate the temperature conditions under the hood very well, and also may not be able to deliver adequate cranking amps.

You can make do with the factory 10 awg wiring and Blue Sea ACR, but you won’t be happy with the slow charging rate, and you could overcharge the battery as well. In my opinion, a 30 amp dc to dc charger designed for lithium located near the camper battery with 6awg or larger wiring for the entire run between the truck and camper batteries is a good size selection for 200 ah system where you typically use 25 to 40% of the battery per day. That allows you to get a day’s worth of charge from 2 to 3 hours of driving. A lot of us here use the Victron Orion 12/12-30 chargers, but there are others out there.

If you always camp in relatively sunny conditions your solar might be sufficient on its own, though.

I think you are right on the lithium truck battery for now. I have just noticed the lithium technology make leaps and bounds over the last couple years (price drop as well). I'm being optimistic that perhaps by the time my camper is ready, they may have a light weight lithium alternative for under the hood.

I will definitely look into the Victron Orion 12/12-30. Is there a specific model # you all are running, or just the 12/12-30 I see on amazon?

Also is this unit added inline to the existing system or can it replace and also perform the same duty as the ACR?

 

[Jon R]

There is an isolated ground version and a non-isolated ground version of the 12/12-30. I would suggest going to Victron’s site and read the manual installation instructions. There is a lot of good information there.

The dc to dc charger replaces the ACR, but you want to locate it close to the camper battery, so you may put it in a different location. Plan to run 6 awg wire from the truck battery to the camper battery. 10 awg causes too much voltage loss at 30 amps and causes the charging to cycle on and off. 8 awg might be big enough, but I’m not sure, and it would depend on the run length. I know 6 awg works without cycling from personal experience. Plan on circuit protection on the positive wire at both the truck and camper batteries.

 

[Vic Harder]

+1 to what JonR is saying. Also, I'd get the non-isolated version of the Orion. The isolated ones are designed for use on boats. More important than what charging devices or wires you get is installing a good battery State of Charge monitor. I like the Victron 712 BMV, but they also have a much less expensive dongle that transmits battery vitals via bluetooth to your phone. A device like this lets you know what is happening to your batteries, so you can determine what (if anything) needs tweeking.

 

[Beach]

Welcome to the site. lots of knowledgeable folks here that are always ready to help.

 

[CPT Davenport]

Sounds like the DC/DC non isolated Orion is the way to go. Every charge controller I have used in an off grid set up, has had a display screen built into the unit.

This Dongle you speak of is just a separate display screen for the MPPT right? Or am I missing something?

In my cabin I get great results from the Renogy Rover 40Amp. This unit is a bit big for the fwc, so I will go with a smaller unit with an external display.

I read you all loud and clear on the wire size. I will upgrade to 6 awg for sure. Thanks!

 

[Jon R]

(Edited)

Based on reading Vic’s later message, I think that rather than “dongle” he meant the Victron Smart Shunt, which measures and integrates current over time and provides it to a phone app via bluetooth. The BMV 712 is a mountable 2” round display plus the same bluetooth phone interface. I like having the display in the camper and so does my wife solely to check battery charge level. I use the phone interface a lot more than the installed display.

Dongle in these types of product typically refers to either a device that adds bluetooth to a device that doesn’t have it, or that adds capability to charge a different type of battery.

 

[Vic Harder]

There are FOUR separate functions/devices we need to a good charging setup:
- MPPT - for controlling the solar panel output to your batteries. The Victron gear "speaks" bluetooth so you don't need a dongle or display for that assuming you have a cell phone
- DCDC - for controlling the output of your truck's alternator - again, the Victron Orion speaks BT - the range on this device's BT seems to be VERY short range though!
- ACDC - shore power charger - most FWC/ATC come with one (IOTA brand) installed that may or may not have a "dongle" port that can be used to setup the IOTA for different battery chemistries.
- A monitor that uses a shunt to measure current in/out of the batteries. Victron BMV 712 has a separate physical display (not optional!) and speaks BT too. One 712 I installed in a RV trailer has the physical display hidden in the battery box, so you don't need to make more holes in your camper if you don't want to mount it. OR you can get their "Smart Shunt" which puts the BT sender right on the shunt and does not need/have an external display. AND it is less expensive too.

 

[Jon R]

The Hawk should have a cutout in the front of the cabinet with a rectangular wood cover where the factory would have installed their Overland display. I had been dreading taking a hole saw to my new camper, but that’s the way my 2021 Grandby came. I saved that OEM plate and made a new one with a hole for the BMV 712. I like to make my mods reversible to factory configuration if possible, in case I want to do something different later and just in case it might matter to a buyer down the road.

 

[Jon R]

You can see the roughly 4x6”!black blanking plate on the left side above the water pump access door.

 

[CPT Davenport]

Thanks for all of the great tips you guys. I now know exactly what is needed to build my charging system. Camper should be ready in July. I will begin purchasing my system components in early June (just incase there are any technology updates between now and then).

 

[Jon R]

Another big part of the puzzle is where you are going to install everything, and will the items fit where you want to put them. If you want 100ah of battery, it’s probably pretty easy. If you want 200ah, you may have a puzzle to solve. I would have liked to install two Battleborn batteries, but there was no way they were going to fit in my battery compartment with the chargers with adequate space for charger cooling and easy access to wiring. Luckily I found a different battery option that fit well and I’m happy with.

I would start by getting accurate battery compartment dimensions and begin trying to lay it out on paper. I had mine all mocked up and ready to install when I received the camper, so installation was fast. It gave me something to work on while I waited as well.

 

[Jon R]

Here are a couple of pictures of my battery compartment layout shortly before it was finished.