new Tacoma and FWC build advice

[Doff]

Hi all!
I am new to the forum. I have been reading threads for a while trying to find some information. Theres so much out there I thought I would be start a thread and see if I can get some of my questions answered.

In January my wife and I are purchasing a new 202 Tacoma TRD Off Road Double Cab with 6ft bed and tow package. At the same time we are going to order a new Four Wheel Camper Fleet Model. Four Wheel Camper has about a 4 month build time. During that time, we plan to do the needed modifications on the Tacoma.

I know that the biggest issue for placing a FWC on a Tacoma is the suspension due to the weight. FWC suggests installing Firestone airbags and Daystar cradles. Reading through threads on here, it sounds like we will want to do more suspension upgrades than that. However, I have read dozens of different suggestions and build descriptions...all are different. I know there is no one right answer, but I am hoping to figure out what would be best suited for our situation. I should also add, I am not very mechanically savvy or have a lot of mechanical or truck build out knowledge....so I am kind of starting from scratch here.

A little background about our planned use for the rig. My wife and I are both nurses and get long six day weekends twice a month. We live in the Sierra Mountains and pretty much camp every time we are off work. We have 3 dogs and a kiddo on the way. We never camp in actual campgrounds..we try to get far away from people as possible. That almost always means dirt roads and 4x4 trails. having said that, we won't be using the rig for any serious wheeling or rock crawling, but we want it capable enough to get us deep into the backcountry and be able to handle moderate 4x4 trails. The Tacoma will also be my daily driver, so we will be taking the FWC off the Tacoma when not in use. From what I understand, that can cause some problems with the suspension...it can become a rough ride when the camper is off, if the suspension is not done correctly.

Long story short...I am hoping to get some input into what suspension modifications I should plan to do. I think the airbags and cradles are obvious. But in addition to that, should I plan un upgrading the leafs? Coils? shocks? And what products would you suggest?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you have!

 

[Kolockum]

Welcome to the forum! On my last truck (2002 Dodge Dakota) I added an extra leaf in the back. It leveled the truck and handled the camper ok. My shocks wore out quickly. I ended up putting much beefier shocks on. The suspension was never right on that truck and it would do weird things like "hop" on some dirt roads and 4x4 trails.

Now that I have a 2017 Tacoma I want to take the time and spend the money to set it up right. I tried Bridgestone airbags but was not impressed. I am thinking about going the Firestone route. The rear leaf package on our trucks is super soft and I bottom out with my canopy on. I would like to upgrade Old Man Emu (OME) suspension and use airbags to fine tune that. But that is close to $2k. (the add-a-leaf for the dakota was ~$100).

But this topic is a can of worms and there are plenty of different opinions.

 

[paulclancy]

Here's a thought .....
We have a 2017 Tacoma double cab with less than 16,000 miles on it.
With a 2018 Fleet flatbed on the back.
It's all built out with suspension, tires, front bumper; nothing more to add to it, ready to drive away.
All work done at the FWC dealer and all truck maintenance records from the toyota dealer.
We were planning on selling the whole package in the Spring, but would consider selling early.
If you're interested, email me at paul@northpeakdatasystems.com

 

[kluber]

I agree with the advice above. 2017 Taco Quad Cab. Went with Firestone airbags out of the gate, but we did not like the feeling AND did not like depending upon an air system - if it breaks somewhere deep off road or far from home, limping back is going to be trouble.

Soooo....Deaver Springs in Orange County (or someone closer to you) can add the carrying capacity by adding leafs.

We weighed in at a moving company ($10) and Deaver used that to determine what we needed. With a Fleet (Rollover Couch + Kitchen with Hot Water Tank) our set up weighed around 6,000 pounds.

The new springs feel really good and we're not worried about failure of the airbag system. In the end, I wish that we had not spent money on the airbags and gone straight to a spring rebuild. The exception is for folks who need to take the camper on and off and use the truck as a daily driver - heavy springs would make a rough ride with the camper off.

Good luck. Stoked for you - you're gonna have so much fun with that set up!

Karl

 

[knoxswift]

From your description I wonder if a Full Size would be a better choice for you than the Tacoma? (Coming from a Tacoma/FWC owner).
You, Wife, Kids, Dogs, FWC, probably some toys like bikes/boats whatever?
I'm thinking you are getting way up there in Weight for a Tacoma that is something like 1100Lbs payload? DC with 6ft bed is the lowest payload in the Tacoma lineup.

But if Tacoma is the choice I'd say if you plan to go deep wilderness stay away from bags and build with springs. Though will be stiff without camper more reliable off the beaten path.

 

[Kolockum]

My folks just bought a F150 to tow a small tab camper. It gets almost the same mileage as my Tacoma.... Ok it gets better than the Tacoma especially with the start stop technology. The only downside is Ford recommends premium gas but plenty of people just run it on regular. Sometimes I wish I had a F150 with a FWC Hawk (or ATC equivalent), then I squeeze through a really tight trail and am grateful for the small size.

Side note: Up here in Washington when the weigh stations are closed the readout monitors are turned to face the window so you can see what your vehicle weighs.

 

[Kolockum]

I agree with the advice above. 2017 Taco Quad Cab. Went with Firestone airbags out of the gate, but we did not like the feeling AND did not like depending upon an air system - if it breaks somewhere deep off road or far from home, limping back is going to be trouble.

Karl

My Bridgestones popped when I bottomed out on washboard. I had approx 45 psi in it at the time.

 

[Doff]

I Definitely want to stick with a Toyota. I have been a Toyota guy through and through. Our initial thoughts were for a Tacoma for 2 reasons. 1- its cheaper than a Tundra and 2- it can get us down tighter trails than a larger Tundra would. Also, from what I understand the pay load for a Tundra isn't THAT much more than the Tacoma. If we went a Tundra route, would we still be having to do basically all the same suspension upgrades?

 

[knoxswift]

I Definitely want to stick with a Toyota. I have been a Toyota guy through and through. Our initial thoughts were for a Tacoma for 2 reasons. 1- its cheaper than a Tundra and 2- it can get us down tighter trails than a larger Tundra would. Also, from what I understand the pay load for a Tundra isn't THAT much more than the Tacoma. If we went a Tundra route, would we still be having to do basically all the same suspension upgrades?

Actually the Tundra has a payload between 1500 and 1700 depending on configuration. The Tacoma is between 1005 to 1600. The 4X4 PRO Models on both models have the WORSE payload numbers due to weight of the equipment added to be setup that way.

I can only think of 1 trail so far the Tundra would not have fit where my Tacoma did and that's because the trail was washed out (In Colorado and I really should have turned around but I went for it).
One Really has to think how extreme are you really planing to go and if you are OK with the liabilities of going over the GVW. For me the Tacoma does quote OK with the camper but I also changed the Gearing which is the #1 best change I've done to the Tacoma and setting up for FWC but also the most costly mod.... Liability wise I'm over the max weight. I'm betting a Tundra you'd only have to consider some Helper Springs and not a full replacement of suspension...but I'm sure there are some Tundra Guys who can chime in.

Last, I'm totally with you on the Toyota thing. I've test drove the RAM 1500 and even thought about it quite a bit, but my last 3 Toyota's have been so solid, I can't seem to make the switch...

 

[moveinon]

I have a 2011 Tacoma access cab long bed and fleet. Certainly upgrade to E rated tires. I have KO2’s because they are quiet on the freeway, have great sidewall protection, and have snowflake rating (We ski), other folks on here recommend a variety of other tires. I upgraded brakes to ARB slotted rotor and green pads. Not because I had to, the stopping was OK without but I needed brakes anyway and OEM brakes aren’t the best and it does stop better with this upgrade. I have Firestone air bags with commercial air hoses separately connected to each bag. I have over 400,000 miles on two sets of these with and without cradles and have never had a leak or problem even running way over GVW at times. Other airbags do not get the same rating from those who have had them. I have a compressor for airing down tires and use the air bags to do final leveling when camping which is great. King, Old Man Emu, or Fox shocks can hold up better on longer rides on gravel roads and reduce the bounce you get from air bags. Shocks are not necessarily something you would need to upgrade right away. In the summer after you drive on a bumpy gravel road just get out and carefully touch the shock. If it is close to being able to fry an egg on you need to upgrade to a quality remote reservoir shock. I had spring upgrade with air bags on my last truck but it rode awful when not loaded. On this truck I run stock springs and am much happier when the camper is off for the winter. You can get a backup camera from a wrecked Tacoma at a junk yard cheap to attach to the back of the camper which can be very helpful at times -just plug and play. If you have a thick wallet the gearing on the new Tacoma is not as good as the gearing is on my 2011 so folks who are really meticulous about wanting everything perfect re-gear them (see Hodaka guy thread on here). I chose the tacoma VS Tundra for three reasons. In my garage I can fit out Tacoma, Tesla, and camper side by side and still get in and out - could not with full sized truck. I drive into parking structures regularly and the spaces in those things are as small as they can get away with. Without the smaller size and turning radius I could not get into a lot of those spots or even some in regular parking lots. I have a couple of favorite spots that I go to fish and need the much tighter turning radius to get around trees and rocks - a full sized truck could not go there. For most places I have gone, especially the old logging roads around here the size would not matter, but there has been a number of times that the turning radius is critical to get away from the road where I want to go. I am sure you will think about your use and where you want to go and make a good choice for you.

 

[Kolockum]

I have Firestone air bags with commercial air hoses separately connected to each bag. I have over 400,000 miles on two sets of these with and without cradles and have never had a leak or problem even running way over GVW at times.

Minor hijack: What brackets do you use for your air bags?

Back to the topic:
Good tires with sidewall protection are a must. This was a Toyo At2, the tire survived.

 

[Get Lost Tom]

In for this as well. I have a double Tacoma shortbed with a lift on a it and opted for the Old Man Emu Dakar Medium Duty Leaf springs so that I still have a decent ride when the campers off. For those situations when the camper is on I will rely on the airbags as helpers. Its a Finch Shell model that weighs in at 575lbs dry so there isnt too much stress on the leafs.

 

[WillTheThri11]

I just got my camper (8' Ranger II) on a 06 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 back in September...drove it back from Boulder CO to Southern California with no suspension mod whatsoever...that was a bit stressfull, but all in all it worked and I even got some very slow speed offroading in on the trip back...since then I put the airbags and daystar cradles and what a difference! Even with the crappy stock shocks it's night and day. The shocks will likely wear out quick now, but the airbags do make a huge difference and I like the ability to be adjustable. Since I had brand new TSB leaves, I felt like keeping them. I may do an icon add a leaf later on if i decide i want the lift. It removes the overload spring, but that is what the airbag would be for at that point.

I wrestled back and forth with this for quite a while myself. I read a lot on the boards (read the entire 30 plus page thread on tacomaworld for example). In the end the firestone airbag system is the only thing you can buy that you can use to change your ride after you install it (well the $1000+ Fox shocks have damping adjusters too). With all of the other spring options, you won't know if it's good or bad until after you install it ($$), get the truck realigned ($) and take it for a spin. For that reason, I think airbags are a good place to start. Even if it doesn't end up being the right fit or the only thing you need to do, at least you'll have adjustable bumpstops.

Beyond that, find someone with your exact setup and desires who's already made all of the mistakes and decide to trust them without question. Better yet, buy the camper truck combo mentioned above and just go camping!

 

[JHanson]

Doff,

If you plan to remove the camper between trips, air bags are the only way to retain a decent ride both with and without the load. Don't let anyone talk you into beefing up the springs to carry the camper; you'll be sorry when you remove it. Along those lines, adjustable shocks in the rear also help tune the camper/no camper ride.

 

[JimBow]

I have a Fleet on a 2010 Tacoma. I started with air bags. I did not care for the ride. I recently changed to the Boise Spring Works stage 2 kit with Bilstein shocks all around. I much prefer the ride now, both with the camper on and off. The rear sits a little high with the camper off, but the ride is fine.

 

[moveinon]

Kolockum I just used the brackets that come with the Firestones and Daystar cradles.

 

[rubberlegs]

Instead of air bags, you might consider Sumosprings. No air to worry about. They've worked fine for us, and with the camper off there's a gap, so the truck would ride nearly normal. We used the black ones.

Our Taco/Fleet doesn't have any other suspension changes (Taco is an "off road" which has different shocks I believe). But we try to keep the thing light -- no kids or dogs and rarely fill the water tank. The long bed Taco is heavier than ours, which reduces payload, so another thing to consider.

 

[Mark G]

I put air bags on my previous truck and managed to break both. On my '14 Tacoma I installed Sumo Springs. They don't engage when there's no load and there's nothing to break.

Where are you? There are a lot of us around the North Sierras.

 

[So Cal Adventurer]

1- its cheaper than a Tundra and 2- it can get us down tighter trails than a larger Tundra would.

Ive owned Tacomas and Tundras and both of these statements are 110% false sir.

LOTS of FWC start with a smaller truck, and then go to a bigger one, you almost never see folks going from a bigger one to a smaller one, just an FYI

 

[57Pan]

I have a 2005 4x4 extended cab Tacoma, and I'm running ARB EMU lift/springs with firestone airbags, and also BFG ko2 tires hauling an ATC bobcat camper. I really think this combination is working well for me. I run about 35psi in the airbags when the camper is on the truck.
I feel the handling and power for this combination is fine, the only thing is that if you have a heavy foot your gas mileage really drops.