On winterizing…

[Smars00l]

Very new to camper life. I plan to take my 2006 Granby in a long ski road trip this year. I read the posts about draining the water tanks… but what is the best way to prevent freezing pipes, etc when you’re camper is in use during freezing temps? I’m sure this questions has been addressed many times but I didn’t find a solution for what to do when you’re living in the camper too.
Thanks!

 

[Jon R]

There are strategies to be able to use the water system in moderate subfreezing temperatures, but the safest bet, especially if you are going to spend much of your days away from the camper, is to drain and winterize the system in your preferred manner, and camp without using the water system.

 

[Smars00l]

Ok. Good points. The sink would be very useful to use on a long road trip though.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

To clear the pipes, my preferred method is to use low pressure (no more than 60 PSI) compressed air to blow out the lines. You can buy a plastic fitting that screws into your city water port, then connect the air hose to it. Even a bike pump will work. Open each valve and run the air until no more water comes through. I do each line several times.

Regarding the water tank, it’s done first, then run the pump until nothing comes out of the tap. Again, I do this several times. Prof Google and Dr YouTube will have tutorials.

 

[rando]

We use out water system in the winter, but it takes some care and depends on just how wintery your winter is. If your are talking about using it where the highest temperature will be significantly below freezing, then it is probably not worth the risk. However for desert SW type conditions (think southern Utah, Nevada, New Mexico) where it is typically at or a bit above freezing during the day, then it works pretty well.

There is no issue at night with the furnace running and the hot water heater warmed up, if it is going down to the single digits we will also open the cabinet doors. If it is at or just below freezing during the day, we will heat up the hot water tank in the morning and leave it on, which provides a bunch of heat and thermal ballast to the cabinet where the plumbing is. You can also heat the water heater, and dump it back into the water tank, which will keep that nice and warm for many hours.

I also have an on board air compressor, a blow out fitting and an empty jerry can. If it looks like if we will hit really cold weather, I can fill the jerry can from the camper tank (to still have water), then winterize the camper with the compressor in about 15 minutes.

 

[Smars00l]

Rando- that was extremely helpful. Thank you so much!

 

[Jon R]

I’d be wary of making a hard air connection to the water system with 60 psi. If you make a mistake and close everything 60 psi could cause damage. I dial my compressor regulator down to 10 psi and also use a short section of surgical tubing slipped onto the purge fitting with no clamp to act as a pressure fuse at just a few psi.

 

[SigSanDiego]

We use out water system in the winter, but it takes some care and depends on just how wintery your winter is. If your are talking about using it where the highest temperature will be significantly below freezing, then it is probably not worth the risk. However for desert SW type conditions (think southern Utah, Nevada, New Mexico) where it is typically at or a bit above freezing during the day, then it works pretty well.

There is no issue at night with the furnace running and the hot water heater warmed up, if it is going down to the single digits we will also open the cabinet doors. If it is at or just below freezing during the day, we will heat up the hot water tank in the morning and leave it on, which provides a bunch of heat and thermal ballast to the cabinet where the plumbing is. You can also heat the water heater, and dump it back into the water tank, which will keep that nice and warm for many hours.

I also have an on board air compressor, a blow out fitting and an empty jerry can. If it looks like if we will hit really cold weather, I can fill the jerry can from the camper tank (to still have water), then winterize the camper with the compressor in about 15 minutes.

Heat water heater and dump back into water tank?

As in, use outside shower hose and open water fill cap and spray hot water back to 20gal tank?

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I’d be wary of making a hard air connection to the water system with 60 psi. If you make a mistake and close everything 60 psi could cause damage. I dial my compressor regulator down to 10 psi and also use a short section of surgical tubing slipped onto the purge fitting with no clamp to act as a pressure fuse at just a few psi.

“Residential water pressure tends to range between 45 and 80 psi (pounds per square inch). Anything below 40 psi is considered low and anything below 30 psi is considered too low; the minimum pressure required by most codes is 20 psi. Pressures above 80 psi are too high.” Prof Google

 

[rando]

Heat water heater and dump back into water tank?

As in, use outside shower hose and open water fill cap and spray hot water back to 20gal tank?

Open the drain back valve on the water heater (the lower valve in the cabinet with the hot water heater) then open the hot tap on the sink, just as if you were draining the hot water heater. Assuming your water tank is not totally full, the hot water will drain back into the water tank. You can then close the valve, refill the water heater and repeat if you want to get the water tank warmer.

 

[Jon R]

“Residential water pressure tends to range between 45 and 80 psi (pounds per square inch). Anything below 40 psi is considered low and anything below 30 psi is considered too low; the minimum pressure required by most codes is 20 psi. Pressures above 80 psi are too high.” Prof Google

Four Wheel Camper in their manual calls for the use of an in-line rv pressure regulator when using the city water connection to prevent exposure of the water system to excessive water pressure. The regulator supplied by FWC with my 2021 Grandby reduces the pressure to 40 psi.

 

[Wallowa]

FYI...LOTS of previous posts addressing how to best "winterize" a FWC...try the search function....you probably will be overwhelmed with opinions, but also a lot of hard won experiences....what has already been posted in this thread is spot on...my metric is better safe than sorry....I also take ski trips in my Hawk....

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

FYI...LOTS of previous posts addressing how to best "winterize" a FWC...try the search function....you probably will be overwhelmed with opinions, but also a lot of hard won experiences....what as already been posted in this thread is spot on...my metric is better safe than sorry....I also take ski trips in my Hawk....

To follow up on Phil’s good point… The WTW search function is not what many folks consider to be robust. If you can’t find it using our search, Google may be a better option.

Try a Google search argument like site wanderthewest.com "winterize" if you can’t find what you’re looking for.

 

[rando]

Not to put words in the OPs mouth, but I didn't read their post as asking about winterizing their water system, but about *using* their water system in the winter.....

 

[DanoT]

Staying in ski area parking lots=frozen water pipes, unless skiing at a place like Whistler that gets lots of rain.

 

[SigSanDiego]

Open the drain back valve on the water heater (the lower valve in the cabinet with the hot water heater) then open the hot tap on the sink, just as if you were draining the hot water heater. Assuming your water tank is not totally full, the hot water will drain back into the water tank. You can then close the valve, refill the water heater and repeat if you want to get the water tank warmer.

You can’t close the Hot Water Inlet Valve during normal
Operation. Per the manual.

You’d end up using all the hot water in hot water heater. It would never replenish. So you could be running hot water heater with zero water in tank. Not good I hear.

Also. I always start out with a full 26 gallons (6 and 20h so if your first night is sub freezing the bs kilowatt of hot water can’t happen.

I’m still looking at a fan system that draws warm heated air from main living quarters and circuits it inside and around the water pump and 20 gallon cabinet area.

 

[Jon R]

Rando’s talking about the drain valve, not the fill valve. To fill the hot water tank you close the drain valve and keep it closed during water heater operation. The fill valve stays open if you are using the hot water system. And as you said, you should only turn on the water heater when it’s full.

 

[rando]

You can’t close the Hot Water Inlet Valve during normal
Operation. Per the manual.

You’d end up using all the hot water in hot water heater. It would never replenish. So you could be running hot water heater with zero water in tank. Not good I hear.

Also. I always start out with a full 26 gallons (6 and 20h so if your first night is sub freezing the bs kilowatt of hot water can’t happen.

I’m still looking at a fan system that draws warm heated air from main living quarters and circuits it inside and around the water pump and 20 gallon cabinet area.

I am not sure what you mean about closing the hot water inlet valve.

The process is:

1. Fill the hot water tank as you normally would (close the drain valve, open the fill valve, turn on the pump, open the hot water tap until water comes out).
2. Turn on the water heater and let it heat up all the way.
3. Turn off the water heater and pump.
4. Open the water heater drain valve and the hot water tap to let air in as the tank drains back into the water tank - this takes a few minutes.
5. Refile the hot water tank as in step 1 and repeat if you want to get the water hotter.

And yes, if your water tank is all the way full, you can't drain back into it. In the winter it is wise to carry a 5gal water jug in case you need to winterize, so you could always fill that to make space in your water tank.

 

[Wallowa]

You can’t close the Hot Water Inlet Valve during normal
Operation. Per the manual.

You’d end up using all the hot water in hot water heater. It would never replenish. So you could be running hot water heater with zero water in tank. Not good I hear.

Also. I always start out with a full 26 gallons (6 and 20h so if your first night is sub freezing the bs kilowatt of hot water can’t happen.

I’m still looking at a fan system that draws warm heated air from main living quarters and circuits it inside and around the water pump and 20 gallon cabinet area.

The suggestion was to get hot water into the main tank for a thermal mass to keep the tank and surrounding plumbing above freezing, if possible. Then refill the hot water tank AFTER closing the drain into the main tank to reheat the hot water and repeat the sequence if effective and needed...never meant to leave the tank empty and then cycle the burner on..that was not in the post.

All this is really a crap shoot in my view....if you can, heat the camper and the hot water system while the temps could otherwise freeze the plumbing and burst a fitting or pipe...then, perhaps, just perhaps you could pull it off...leave the camper to ski, hike, etc and you either leave the space heater on and turnbuckle doors open and hot water heater on and pump on or risk freezing the plumbing...or if you pull up stakes and start driving in sub-zero and prudently don't run the space heater while driving, the plumbing will again be subject to freezing and damage..

Last time....in seriously cold temps where plumbing could freeze and burst in my opinion it is not worth the risk to carry any water in the water system of a FWC...I carry a 7 gallon carboy and even that has frozen solid while I was skiing last winter...

Hey, ya pays yur money and ya takes yur chances...

 

[Sagebrusher]

We often camp in freezing weather and only heat minimally at night so I removed my DIY water tank, foot pump and metal faucet and use 3 liter Platypus water bag(s) with a plastic water cooler spigot that fits snugly into the finger hole in my stove/sink glass top. This positions it nicely above the sink. It has a silicone hose disconnect so we just bring the bags out to the camper when leaving for a trip. Could even sleep with them and travel with them in the truck cab if it is really cold. I also switch the sink drain to easily direct-discharge grey water where appropriate or divert to a small "1 day" jug under the sink in the battery compartment when not appropriate to dump. Find the spigot on Amazon under "replacement cooler faucet".

Last winter, I removed the tank and foot pump but only drained the faucet. I found leaks in the spring because plastic parts in my faucet still broke because I didn't fully blow it out. I blew out the new one this year. Live and learn.