Phoenix Geo Den

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imix

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Apr 29, 2009
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Hey, this maybe off topic for the FWC forum, but I was at Truckcampermagazine.com today and Phoenix RV (Robby Rowe, the son of Dave Rowe, founder of Four Wheel Camper so maybe not THAT off topic)has a gobsmacking new camper, the Geo Den. I haven't seen any other posts here so I thought I'd post on it. It's a pop up that weighs only 570 lbs dry, has no cabover, comes with a chest style National Luna fridge that draws .4 amps, a VENTED catalytic heater, and a FLIP UP molded sink/countertop.

I know FWC also has a non cabover camper (can't recall the name right now) but this thing has some stunning innovations. In fact, Robby is really innovating more than anyone in the pop up camper space right now, the Pulse camper on a Jeep also fell into the category of gobsmacking, IMHO.

Check 'er out. It's not cheap though, but Robby builds custom, no assembly line production like FWC so you'd expect that.
I tried to post a direct link but there is a weird symbol in the URL that turns it into a non working link. Head to the mainpage at truck camper mag and search for geo den.

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com
 
Well first of all I didn't like the non-cabover concept from FWC and I don't like Phoenix's version either. You have to get pretty tricky to make that small space usable. At least Phoenix did redesign the interior layout to maximize the available space which I will give them credit for (unlike FWC which is mostly a stock interior from what I understand).

IMO there is only one way to do a camper like this right and thats on a flatbed. The available space and storage actually become usable even on a compact truck. My version of "innovation" is more in line with creating usable and comfortable space, not packing more gadgets and doohickies in the camper.

So this is what I think should be happening: these camper companies should be building flatbeds too. The camper is built to interface with the flatbed so that it attaches quickly and easily. Camper and flatbed are sold as a package. Total price should come in at just a couple thousand dollars more but you have a far superior camper and truck to boot (the flatbed has much more utility value in everyday use I love mine). Finally, have a flatbed camper with a door on the side and the entire back available to store bikes, kayaks etc and you have the ultimate adventure rig.

I think we'll start seeing more campers in line with these ideas in the near future.
 
I tried to post a direct link but there is a weird symbol in the URL that turns it into a non working link. Head to the mainpage at truck camper mag and search for geo den.

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com


Interesting write up with some cool appliances that seem very efficient.

here is the link
 
Northstar has one called the "Escape Pod" that rests on a flat bed, but it seems little is heard about it.
 
Camper and flatbed are sold as a package. Total price should come in at just a couple thousand dollars more but you have a far superior camper and truck to boot (the flatbed has much more utility value in everyday use I love mine).


I would jump on a flatbed if it were just a couple thousand more, but what I have found for the Tacoma costs a lot more. I have looked at Ute and XP's flatbeds, am I missing one?

I also think it will be some time before flatbeds catch on here in NA, if they ever do. From what I have seen locally, I do not think flatbeds will become common, not really sure why.
 
I would jump on a flatbed if it were just a couple thousand more, but what I have found for the Tacoma costs a lot more. I have looked at Ute and XP's flatbeds, am I missing one?

I also think it will be some time before flatbeds catch on here in NA, if they ever do. From what I have seen locally, I do not think flatbeds will become common, not really sure why.


The couple thousand more would only work if the camper companies were building the flatbeds and offering them as a package.

But lets look at the math here. First of all these tiny, expensive, non-cabover campers have a market that must be pretty tiny and I doubt either of these companies will sell more than a handful of them. However, even the cabover versions are pretty tiny with terrible storage.

So lets say you spend 18k on a pretty decked out FWC for a Tacoma. Thats 18k - pretty expensive! And what do you have? Still a tiny camper with very limited internal layout options, crappy storage, and no easy way to haul your mountain bikes, kayaks, or other outdoor gear.

Now lets say hypothetically that some company has a stock flatbed version that does not have a premium price because its a one off custom. So its 18k. You can get a ute installed for a Tacoma for around 3k. Thats around 17% of the camper price.

So for an extra 17% you get a camper with enough room to create some different layouts to suit your needs, a camper with plenty of storage that is accessible both outside and in, and a camper with a back wall that can be used to haul your mountain bikes. That sounds like a no-brainer to me and its the only way I would do it with a compact truck.

Further it seems that none of the camper manufacturers are mountain bikers, kayaks etc because none of them are solving the obvious problems of hauling gear with a pop-up camper. There are literally millions of mountain bikers that are potential customers for these kind of lightweight campers but I have yet to see one camper company put 2 and 2 together and try to get into that market. That would be one form of innovation that actually has some merit.

There are plenty of camper manufacturers that are building quality campers but most of them are pretty slim in the innovation department. Not much fundamental has changed in the last 20-30 years.

Sorry for the rant but I expect some bigger thinking from these companies before I call them innovative.
 
As for NCO microscopic campers I do like the Alaskan version:

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/tcm-exclusive:-2009-alaskan-mini-/

I know its heavy but i think this is the best internal layout for this kind of design.
 
I would jump on a flatbed if it were just a couple thousand more, but what I have found for the Tacoma costs a lot more. I have looked at Ute and XP's flatbeds, am I missing one?


Last I saw the tacoma sized ute was running $2500 so taht sorta falls in your numbers.
 
I saw a FWC Keystone on a 1st gen flatbed dodge in Goleta today. It was either a factory build or the owner did a great job of modifying it. The sides were brought down to the flatbed with storage access doors on the sides and back. The area under the overhead above the cab also had a 6 inch high storage area with access doors that matched the rest of the camper. I wish I had my camera with me.
 
Last I saw the tacoma sized ute was running $2500 so taht sorta falls in your numbers.


Shipping is expensive to my neck of the woods. Plus I would need a few extras (sides) for carrying tools and bags of stuff in the bed.
 
I saw a FWC Keystone on a 1st gen flatbed dodge in Goleta today. It was either a factory build or the owner did a great job of modifying it. The sides were brought down to the flatbed with storage access doors on the sides and back. The area under the overhead above the cab also had a 6 inch high storage area with access doors that matched the rest of the camper. I wish I had my camera with me.


I also wish you had had your camera with you, as that sounds like an interesting setup.
 
I sort of agree with DD, but not entirely. When I was first exploring the idea of a camper, instead of sleeping in the back of our Landcruiser with the seats down, I considered a plain old fiberglass "camper shell" on a Tacoma. The problem was not the space, but that I couldn't figure out how to get the comforts my wife demanded: a comfy bed and heat. A catalytic heater was out for safety reasons, the bed was something I could rig. But after looking, we opted for a full camper because they are just so sweet and yet rugged/maneuverable enough to go off road. Still, I wonder about a shell with a furnace installed and bed system, though we do love sleeping in the cabover with the view, so I doubt we'd ever go back. It seems there could be a healthy market for something in between. I will say that if I could leave the camper on and still drive into the garage, we'd use it a lot more.
 
Shipping is expensive to my neck of the woods. Plus I would need a few extras (sides) for carrying tools and bags of stuff in the bed.


Well for the purpose of the conversation, ie a manufacturer being able to add on a flatbed for a couple thousand more, you'd have to incur that cost either way if you we're local to the distributor. ;)
 
My point isn't entirely specific to the flatbed idea. It's more about general innovation. All these US makers are coming out with all these funny models full of "innovations" but for the most part I'm entirely unimpressed. Marc at XP is the only one that is innovating in the US market IMO.

From my perspective these tiny campers are expensive, barely usable, and have horrible storage space for gear. I looked through this Geo thing and I have to be honest I think it silly. A bunch of extra fabrication (and cost) time to make rounded corners? Sorry but I don't want to pay extra for rounded corners as I don't think this thing is very attractive anyway. And these extra tapers and rounded corners necessitate a strange custom jack attachment which I also don't like. When I first read about the fold up counter I was impressed until I realized it just folds up like 30 degrees to make room for a full width bed. Another example of doing weird stuff to try to get too much out of too little. The Alaskan design at least acknowledges the limitations of the small design and just uses two separate beds while keeping the rest of it a quality build (like the counter).

US manufacturers aren't innovating and we as consumers are letting them get away with it because we accept these mediocre, high-priced products as acceptable. I don't buy it (figuratively and literally). The rest of the world is light years ahead of us for these off-road capable compact campers. Time that we demand better for our money.

I'm not entirely against the idea of a non-cabover camper, I just haven't seen one yet from a US company that I don't think is silly.
 
DD- I agree with your last post. If demand is high, which it appears to be, then there are no selective pressures to innovate. For example, we don't have $10 gas, but we do have large trucks, so a hulking 1000# wind breaking camper is all we get. I can't blame the manufacturers too much because business is still good serving up the same old. (Though I do think they are afraid of cannibalizing their bread and butter with a real innovation). I'm wondering, what have you seen from non-US manufactures you think fits the bill?
 
This was recently posted on EP which I think looks great:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/63626

Other than that you can take your pick from the following list lots of great innovations in design and materials:

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4121/
 
I think the GeoDen thing is pretty silly. In the article they talk about the 1970's model they are somewhat based on with this quote about the old ones.

"In retrospect, there were only about five Packers ever built. They were all eight foot, full-size campers that went on Ford, Chevy, and Dodge trucks. They were okay, but they were also square and old fashioned looking; definitely not modern. We only built them on request."

I think is 30 years they will be able to make the same statement about the GeoDen model... :D
 
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