Pipe heater 'tape' or other ideas to prevent freezing while traveling

[wicked1]

Hi,
Has anyone used water pipe heaters, or a small electric heater, or even run their propane while on the road, to prevent the water lines from freezing?

I know we'll be OK while camping.. It's above freezing during the day at our destination, and we'll have the furnace for at night.

I'm concerned w/ driving though.. We'll be driving through 20 degree weather to get to our destination and between camp sites at times.

Water pipe heaters or a small electric heater seem like a good idea.. but there are details to figure out like their wattage, and how much power the alternator is happy to supply while driving.

(I wish I could branch off the exhaust pipe and route an extension through the cabinets and then back outside... heh.. free heat)

I know there are tons of threads about this, and I am firmly in the risk taking camp.. I've camped in below freezing a bunch of times w/ full water usage. But this is the first time I could be driving for 12 hours in the freezing temps between destinations.

thanks!

 

[PaulT]

(I wish I could branch off the exhaust pipe and route an extension through the cabinets and then back outside... heh.. free heat)

Look into commercial heat pipe technology or create an equivalent of the old VW heater that created a chamber around a hot engine part and pulled air through the chamber and into the interior for heat. Be sure not to pull any exhaust air into the camper.

 

[wicked1]

Thanks, Those are great ideas for the long term.. Might be helpful for others, too, if I got a good system worked out.
But... I can't get that done before I hit the road in the morning.
I'm probably fine, either way.. 20's aren't THAT cold. And I have my cabinets and windows insulated.

 

[Jon R]

Maybe do the dump the hot water tank contents into the cold tank once before departing and again every four hours while driving?

I take anything below 25 pretty seriously as a freezing threat, especially if the cold air (or the vehicle) is moving.

 

[wicked1]

Was thinking.. I have heated seat covers which get much too hot.. and if the truck doesn't mind them, I'm sure a small heating element would be fine. Each seat is about 25 watts. Seedling tray warmers are about 17 watts.. I guess I have my plan for this trip. Seedling tray warmer is how I'm currently warming my lithium bats in the morning when it's cold out, too. Some day I'll find some 12v heating pads and get everything built in permanently.

Jon, thanks for reminding me about the hot water trick.. W/ my insulated cabinets, having it full of hot water would probably be good enough. Although I'd have to keep an eye on it, because the hot water tank freezing is about a worst case scenario.
I'm reading some people do leave their propane and hot water on, while on the road.. But I decided I won't do that. I want the propane shut off.. (which is also the law in most places).

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Thanks, Those are great ideas for the long term.. Might be helpful for others, too, if I got a good system worked out.
But... I can't get that done before I hit the road in the morning.
I'm probably fine, either way.. 20's aren't THAT cold. And I have my cabinets and windows insulated.

My 2¢… Stop every 100ish miles for a bio break, turn the furnace on for 10 minutes with the top down. If you have a water heater, drain and bypass.

It might just work.

 

[rando]

You can run the furnace and/or hot water heater while driving, we have done this on several occasions, sometimes even on purpose.

With the fleet flatbed, all your water lines, with the exception of the out door shower (if you have that) are in the the front left cabinet. The outdoor shower lines are problematic as they essentially run out doors behind the fridge. I added shutoff valves to these lines inside the cabinet above the furnace, and blow these out and shut them off in the autumn.

For the rest of the lines in the cabinet, if you heat the hot water heater up before leaving you should be good for few hours in the 20s. For longer than that, run the hot water heater while driving or at least when you stop for breaks/lunch. We often switch the hot water heater on for the last 30 - 60 minutes of driving (even in the summer) to have hot water when we arrive at camp - it has not caused any problems.

 

[rando]

Just to add, there does appear to be 12V self regulating heating tape:
https://www.oemheaters.com/product/6109/12v-dc-heat-cable-5-wattsfoot

I have not tried it, and the specs are lacking but it appears to be 15W/m with a maximum length of 5m at 12V. This would be enough for the shower lines if you don't want to drain/isolate those for the winter.

 

[wicked1]

Thanks guys. I like the idea of isolating the lines, more than heating them. But I can't for this trip.
Good to know more people drive w/ the hot water running.. I know the furnaces themselves can handle it.. Just concerned about an accident. But I guess technically the propane tank should auto-shutoff if a line gets ruptured.
And yeah.. A quick heatup during breaks is great too. Prepping is always a roller-coaster.. I just went from, "oh no, are my lines going to freeze", to a handful of easy solutions .

I do want to permanently winter-prof my camper, by installing heating pads/tape on the battery and water pipes at some point.. We seem to do more cool/cold weather camping than otherwise.

Alright, back to finding more batteries to charge.

 

[Wallowa]

Stop gap would be chemical exothermal hot packs...some are long lasting....wire tie a string of them around the plumbing on the long drives...don't tape over them, they need air for the chemical production of heat...

I carry them as a "just in case'...other suggestions already made in previous posts are good ones...good luck..

 

[SigSanDiego]

12 volt flush mounted fan installed in left bench face of front dinette models. Maybe two fans: need to take a peek again at tank location and air flow potential.

Fan sucks warm cabin air in (furnace on driving etc.) and blows into and around 20 gallon tank and pipes.

Need same at water pump cabinet area/space. Or hot air may circulate all the way there as well (three feet away internally). Flip up bench seat and take a look.

This is direction I’m going. I think.

 

[Jon R]

The under sink, hot water tank, and electrical panel areas are all fairly open to the volume under the driver side bench. The cold water tank area is not. It’s kind of in its own box.

Whenever I’m running heat and then go under the benches for something, I’m always a bit surprised by how cold those areas are. They have outside air on three sides and the turnbuckle access doors noticeably leak in cold air.

 

[rando]

The configuration is a little different on a flatbed - the sink, water pump, hot water heater and one end of the cold water tank are all in the same cabinet. Two of the walls are outside walls, it is in a corner, but they are the (somewhat) insulated walls, not the wooden floorpack. In this configuration it is easier to heat the cabinet with the water heater than to try and heat the whole camper with the furnace.

A useful device for figuring this out is the Sensor Push bluetooth logging thermometer. You can put it in the cabinet, then monitor the current and past temp from your phone (while driving if you have a copilot) to make sure the cabinet is staying warm enough.

 

[m5040]

If your serious, run 2 heater hoses, in series with your trucks cab heater (hot through truck cab first, then waste toward camper). Then you can buy a sell contained 12v, heater box intended for construction equipment or from an old large SUV with rear heat (like a 90's Suburban where it bolted to floor under back seat). With that on slow it will be real warm for you in the camper after driving all day and won't cost any energy (like elect heat) as it is all waste heat. You could have quick disconnects to enable removal, like flat face hydraulic fittings.

 

[wicked1]

Thanks again everyone, more great ideas.

I'll just add, trip is over. A couple very cold nights. Camper was covered in ice in the morning.. couldn't open the doors w/out a lot of effort and ice cracking. No problems at all.. Basically w/out doing anything extra.
The coldest two nights I did put a few heat pads in the cabinets. (and me and my fam in a hotel ) Never put water in the hot water tank or heated it. Even after the last 12 hour drive home in sub 20f temps, stuff inside the camper was not frozen. (I had drained the water lines at this point, but had other stuff w/ water in it, in the camper. Had juice packs for the kid sitting in a bin on the floor, etc.. Nothing was frozen).

I'm not sure I'll post a trip thread, so I'll add here real quick...
The desert around Tucson, AZ is amazing! All the cactus are HUGE.. Obviously the saguaro are.. but so were all the others.. Things that don't get more than a foot or so tall in other deserts I have been in were over 6' tall around Tucson.