Pricing between FWC and ATC

[smlobx]

Hi-
I'm not trying to start a war or anything like that but I'd like some input from those of you that have one of the above brands and help me understand the differences and if the pricing is justified.

As I understand it FWC is somewhat a production dealer that you have to choose from their list of available options (which is quite extensive) while ATC can accommodate more of a customized nature.

Having said that I am looking at the FWC Grandby and the ATC Cougar to fit on my F-350 SRW long bed. The list price on the Grandby starts almost $3000 higher than the Cougar and I can't figure out what would justify the difference.

Also in comparing the various options on "my build" it seems that FWC is consistantly more expensive. As examples look at the following...

Mechanical Jacks - 695/650
Furnace - 595/495
Extra roof vent - 195/125
Thermal pack - 475/455
Side dinette - 500/250 etc.

By the time you end up "building" your rig the difference in pricing is significant.
Can someone please explain the reasoning for the difference.
PM me if you'd rather not post online.

Thanks!

 

[MarkBC]

....PM me if you'd rather not post online.,,,

Not a bad idea...given that brand loyalty (or whatever it is) can angry up the blood (as Grandpa Simpson would say), and we'd rather not have angry blood spewed about on WTW.

But if people can keep it civil, rational, and fact-based then a public discussion is OK.

 

[K6ON]

Simple, lower overhead. ATC has one shop where your camper is built by the guys that sold it to you.

 

[Jollyrogers]

Hello again. I can't justify price differences, however I can attest to the quality of my new Hawk. I hear what your saying though. It came down to buying used (getting lucky on the east coast with timing etc), buying sight unseen and driving cross country round trip for an install. OR, deal with a FWC dealer, in which MLO had become in Dec. Have you looked into the tax and freight/delivery for a new one also??? All said and done, I chose the easy way, ordered from a dealer as close as I could get, paid for what I wanted exactly, and went and had it installed. We are both happy with our choice, and only wish MLO had become a dealer earlier as I bought a pull behind last year and hate it.

 

[super doody]

Its not an apples to apples comparison. Each company uses different parts and materials which changes the price/value. You should also consider resale value potential.

 

[longhorn1]

+2 to Jollyrogers. I researched Outfitter and Hallmark but their pricing was nearly double FWC & ATC. Then someone suggested I check into FWC and ATC. Both companies have great followings and provide great service. You read a lot about ATC doing maintenance on old FWC. I don't think you can go wrong with either company. I narrowed my search to FWC and somewhat to ATC, though I never spoke with anyone at ATC. There were several reasons I chose FWC. The biggest was their dealership base. I was able to drive up to Wisconsin and see a Grandby and Hawk. If I had wanted ATC I believe I would have had to drive to California to see one, and if I purchased one have it installed and then pay the high California tax. I'm guessing the drive and the tax might have been close to $3,000+/-. That was more than enough reason to choose FWC. I also believe that FWC is a little ahead in the game when it comes to improvements to the camper (rounded top of entry door, fiberglass lift panels, new undercoating, and one piece roof). However, with that said, ATC offers some customizing options that FWC won't provide. The option to customize with ATC and not with FWC could be a deal breaker for some. I'm very happy with my FWC Grandby, front dinette. Good luck in your search. You won't go wrong with either company. There is a FWC dealer in Pennsylvania. Long drive from Virginia to California and add the tax and that might be the difference in cost. You can probably dial that in with some research. jd

 

[smlobx]

Everyone-
Thanks for your comments both public and private.
It is clear that both companies make a great product in slightly different ways.
It is hard for those of us who live on the East Coast who can't easily drop by the factory to get a feel for the manufacturing process etc.
Also the comment about paying sales tax (in CA!) is something I had not considered either. Fortunately I have a couple of months more before I need to make a decision. In fact a WTW member who lives in a nearby state has graciously offered to show me his rig and I'll be looking at it later this week.

Please keep the comments (both public and private) coming.

Decisions, decisions....

 

[Alley-Kat]

If I had wanted ATC ... <snip>... , and if I purchased one have it installed and then pay the high California tax.

Also the comment about paying sales tax (in CA!) is something I had not considered either. .

This won't really pertain to smlobx, you are so darn far away from California, however, it might be good info to have for others reading this thread a bit closer.

Going to Reno Nevada for the installation by ATC will prevent the paying of California sales tax. They do the same thing for Pacific Northwest buyers by meeting them somewhere in Oregon.

At least that used to be the way it worked in the past.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Alley-Kat, there is now an Oregon dealer in Tigard.

 

[ski3pin]

For us, the one piece roof without screws was worth the $3000 or more on the FWC (I did not check if ATC has improved their roof design). We saw a used FWC Keystone at the dealer showing all the screws were resealed and there were a lot of screws. The risk of the FWC one piece roof is will the glue hold for our expected camper life of 20 years and over 3000 nights. So far, over 300 nights and no problems with the new roof design.
<snip>

...............and it is nice the world has room for folks who strongly believe ATC has the superior roof design that did not cost us $3000 more.

 

[takesiteasy]

It is nice to have a choice of vendors for equivalent products. Each company has their unique attributes and each person will value different attributes differently. In our case, we wanted a camper sized exactly to fit our truck with a few other changes. That is what drove us to ATC. We ended up paying more for our camper than if we had bought a standard shell from ATC, but we got exactly what we wanted and that made it worth it to us. We are very happy with the quality of our camper-don't feel we made any compromise on that and like a few things better than the way FWC does it. So, decide what you want and are willing to pay and go for it!

 

[billharr]

They are apples to apples. One is a Fuji and the other is a Granny Smith, you make your choice. This is the second page of civil discussion on the two brands. I believe this is due to the two owners, both are first class men. They both have a great product but are selling to different markets. I have met many camper owners who have do not know about Wander the West, so we are not hearing from all the owners out there.


I am just glad they both do what they do and we have a choice.

 

[longhorn1]

They are apples to apples. One is a Fuji and the other is a Granny Smith, you make your choice. This is the second page of civil discussion on the two brands. I believe this is due to the two owners, both are first class men. They both have a great product but are selling to different markets. I have met many camper owners who have do not know about Wander the West, so we are not hearing from all the owners out there.


I am just glad they both do what they do and we have a choice.

Well said Bill

 

[Vento]

Big business vs. small business.

 

[kmcintyre]

I think both products are good and would check the pro's and con's of each build. I think the no-seam roof has advantages but I think the ATC guys are doing a nice job with their roof in the way they build it for strength. I don't know about the actual components they put in (stove, furnace, refrig, etc.), but I suspect they are similar. If you had a chance it'd be fun to visit both manufacturing facilities and talk with them to see who you are most comfortable with.

 

[DoGMAtix]

We're in the same position as you right now, looking into various brands, mainly FWC and ATC. I made spread sheets reflecting our needs/desires and it seemed that ATC was about $5K (20%) cheaper for a comparable decked-out 8' camper (Grandby vs Cougar). I did notice the same trend you did, that similar parts were a bit cheaper on ATC's price list, but some of the options available for the Grandby appealed to us more than for the Cougar ($5K more? Don't know yet, and it might not matter because we may end up going with a used camper to save money). I called up the folks at FWC and ATC factories and had a similar experience to those described by others - very professional and pleasant conversations. I'd happily buy a camper from either company. For us it will come down to which parts/materials/configurations they offer. For example, ATC doesn't do a hot water/ exterior shower package, but they're happy to recommend a free-standing propane unit that will cover that need. Bed configuration options are different, and you can do some customizing with either company. You just have to get on the phone and figure out how to get from where you are now to where you need to be to purchase.

 

[Bill D]

To me it seems like ATC is about a decade behind FWC. ATC will do more customization and they are a bit more affordable especially when you look at the option pricing. There are some things about a FWC that ATC just can't match at this point. Seamless roof, aircraft style rear door, composite lift panels... the list goes on. ATC just updated their interiors to look like something from 2000+ this year.

FWC is like an Apple computer, ATC is like a PC. You might get more customization at a more affordable price with an ATC, but you get a more standardized/refined product with FWC.

I think what is more important than anything, is getting out there and start using the product. If you are on a budget, try to snap one up used (ATC or FWC). You can't really make a right/wrong choice. It's all about balance. Everything comes with a benefit and a price. I have a loaded camper on a 1/2 ton. I'm just at payload with gear, but there are times that I wish I had a shell or a 3/4 ton for full-time hauling. I take mine off solely due to the weight, given it is my full-time vehicle and I live in a city where the driving is extremely aggressive.

I bought a used 2013 loaded Hawk and I'm just getting ready for my 6th camping trip this season. I'd much rather be in this position than waiting for the shell with a furnace that I could afford/was going to order.
That being said. I'd rather have 6 tent camping trips this year than no Hawk/FWC.

I really hope my advise helps. I'm an OCD type of person, that is why I usually only settle for the best. In my opinion FWC is the best. ATC may be better value (if you value customization more than anything else). I challenge anybody to state one part that ATC makes that is better than FWC.

Value = ( Quality + Intangibles ) - Price
Nobody can put an exact value on intangibles, therefore, there is no exact answer. Only you can answer that question.

 

[MarkBC]

Buying the most expensive doesn't guarantee quality. (e.g., Honda cars are more reliable, trouble-free, than much more expensive Mercedes)

It can be true in campers, too:
I know a guy who has experienced several problems with his recent-vintage FWC, including -- but not limited to -- the notorious "oil-canning" one-piece-roof noise.

Now, I'm satisfied with my 2005 FWC, more-or-less. But if/when I decide to replace it with a new pop-up camper I'll definitely consider ATC.
I'm not a fashionista, I'm more of a functionista...so I'll gladly save a few grand even if I forego a cutting-edge look.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Buying the most expensive doesn't guarantee quality. (e.g., Honda cars are more reliable, trouble-free, than much more expensive Mercedes)

It can be true in campers, too:
I know a guy who has experienced several problems with his recent-vintage FWC, including -- but not limited to -- the notorious "oil-canning" one-piece-roof noise.

Now, personally, I'm satisfied with my 2005 FWC, more-or-less. But if/when I decide to replace it with a new pop-up camper I'll definitely consider ATC.
I'm not a fashionista, I'm more of a functionista...so I'll gladly save a few grand even if I forego a cutting-edge look.

Exactly Mark.
Give me function over fashion any day.
Frank

 

[Ramblinman]

I had the privilege of of visiting both factories before I bought my FWC used. Both are great companies. Stan spoke highly of ATC and explained to me that they are slightly different campers. If you want the latest greatest materials and gadgets - Go FWC - If you want a camper that is reliable and want save a few bucks - ATC. I would be happy with either. I really liked the fellas at ATC - something about supporting the little guy. ATC VS FWC is a tough one - they are both really great.