Propane hell

[Jack]

Fortunately, we have not experienced this problem.

One possibility is to get an adapter between your hose and 1lb disposable propane cans sold for propane lanterns, etc. Next time the problem arises, you easily determine if the problem is the tank or the hose and regulator.

And after the problem is fixed , you can carry a spare 1lb propane can around with you for the next time you actually run out of propane .

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0030006516913a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=propane+adapter&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

 

[pods8]

One possibility is to get an adapter between your hose and 1lb disposable propane cans sold for propane lanterns, etc. Next time the problem arises, you easily determine if the problem is the tank or the hose and regulator.


I've feeling some dejavu here...

 

[DirtyDog]

Being a business owner, my life consists of working 24/7 or getting away camping. I don't have the time to spend troubleshooting all of this stuff and I certainly don't want my downtime compromised by all these problems. Therefore, I think what I am going to do is take it to the RV dealer, have the tank, hose, and regulator replaced. If that doesn't work I am going to douse the whole thing in gasoline, set it ablaze, and drive it off a cliff while doing tequila shots.

I'd love to be able to roll this thing into "the shop" (which I don't have) and spend a couple of days replacing this and that and testing the setup under various conditions, but I just don't have that luxury.

BTW, I forgot to mention that leaking at the propane tank valve has caused my propane alarm to go off a couple of times too - which is yet another problem I have experienced in the past.

 

[DirtyDog]

I am going to try tapping on the regulator tomorrow like fisherman suggested though. I think I can find the time for that However, I'm guessing now that I'll go out there in the morning and the whole thing will work fine, making the tapping thing irrelevant. I wish it would just break and stay that way until it got fixed.

 

[winter200]

A little more info.

At what ambient temp are you seeing the problem? Do you have a single stage or 2 stage regulator?


Do you have a different tank you can hook up to it to see if it gives you problems (20lb grill tank)?

LP wont vapor off at like -40 degrees f. I have spent time in a deer hut with a mr buddy at -10f and had rotate tanks infront of the heater otherwise it wouldn't vapor and would stop. I have also been ice fishing where we had to move the 30lb tanks inside because it was sooooo cold out.

Add a little moisture in it from either a poor purge or from a poor dealer that has moisture in their tank. Not a problem where its 50 degrees and on a grill but move it into a environment like you mentioned at single digit temps and it could also cause a problem. The lp could be freezing moisture in the tank or the regulator.

I don't know if the new rigs have a 2 stage regulator or a single like my older keystone has but that would be the first spot I would go to make an improvement.

If you say that bringing the tank into the camper to warm it up to make it wourk I would say you need to burn off the lp in the tank and purge out the moisture. The acme nuts used on campers are a low flow unit. They are designed to reduce the flow if there is a burst / leak in the line someplace. You can get full flow nuts like I use on the generator conversion kits but would be a safety hazard. The small hole in the acme nut could be a problem spot which would be a good place to start or try also.

 

[pvstoy]

I would have to say:
Make sure you have a 2 stage regulator.
Vent pointed downward.
Purge the tank completly for exessive air and moisture.
Refill to proper 80% leaving room for propane to expand.
See attached Jpegs.

 

[chnlisle]

Ditto Pat and get FWC to pay for the work. After all the camper is BRAND NEW!!

 

[pvstoy]

Because the person seemed to not vent the tank when filling is a good reason to purge the tank of too much air and moisture. Just to make it clear....and helping winter200 make his good points!!!

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

Just New Ones?

Dog,

Is it just you and me that are having problems?

Might be interesting to do a poll to see just how many folks are having the same problems and what year their camper was made. Could give a clue if FWC can pinpoint what's different in the propane system.

If the older units don't have the problem it doesn't make sense that water in the tank would be the cause since we all buy propane from the same dealers. In that case it's probably how the system handles the water and that one of the components in the newer propane system can't deal with it as well.

Since when I removed the tank, heated it (not very long), and it worked, it makes sense to me that it's either the tank valve or ACME nut. I'm betting the acme nut or tank valve have smaller openings than the older ones and that causes more pressure drop/lower temperature and it takes less ice to block them.

Think I'll try just disconnecting and reconnecting next time, without doing anything else. If that doesn't work, I'll try some heat (bare hand for awhile) on the ACME nut and, if that doesn't work, heat the tank for a bit to see if that does it. If none of that works I'll replace the regulator with a double tank, 2-stage, automatic switching regulator that I've been wanting anyway and see if that works (may do that first).

Hopefully it'll never happen again and I won't get the chance to try all that

Cheers!
'birds

 

[DirtyDog]

Today the propane worked at lessened flow for about 30 seconds then crapped out. I attached the BBQ propane and it seemed to work fine. I'm going to get a new tank and cross my fingers but there must be more to this than just a bad tank or surely this would have been resolved at the factory.

 

[Phird05]

DD,

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but on my tank there is a "bleeder" valve located on the tank valve. Usually right under the knob for turning on the gas. It is usually for a small slot head screwdriver. Then there is a very small sized hole next to it (about the size of a small head of a pin). This is for bleeding off the "bad" air (moisture laden) in the tank after EVERY refill. With the tank in the upright position you open the screw valve until you SEE a vapor coming out of the small hole. This is the contaminated air that has moisture in it. let it bleed off until you just hear the hiss, and see no vapor. Then close the small valve. Bleeding off this bad air may solve your problem. I carry my tank horizontally in my hallmark, and after I bleed off the moisture and lay the tank on its side there is nothing but the gas vapor, so you should have no interuption in flow. I hope this helps. If not, you still have the option of a good high cliff!

Good Luck!

Paul

 

[snow hunter]

questions ?

Just wondering DD and snow bird do you have the same brand propane tank?
Also what level is the tank at with fuel when your trying to run the heater?

I have only had problems when there was not enough gas or battery power to run the stock heater.

 

[HERR42]

disconnected the propane alarm?

wow you DONT want to do THAT!

your batt is simply getting low!

those alarms draw only a few milliamps. it they "see" their power (their share of the 12v) dropping its because another appliance is capable of momentarily dropping the battery voltage below the alarm's minimums. it is resetting the alarm. your furnace can do this when it initially starts up. it can also happen when your battery voltage falls into the 11 volt range.

connect it back up! charge the battery!

 

[pods8]

The solution would be for the propane sensor manufacturer to incorporate a small delay in shifting to the low battery alarm mode, or, provide an auxiliary battery backup (AA's, 9v, ??) that would carry the sensor through short periods of main power outage. Another solution might be to increase the wire size to reduce the drop to the unit and/or direct wire to the battery with an in-line fuse and avoid the fuse panel (I'm beyond my electrical self here). Still another solution might be to use a 9v battery powered alarm, if they make them...My 2 cents.

My short term solution has been to pull the fuse and leave the alarm off for the rest of the night after the first time it wakes me up...not good but I either die in my sleep or from lack of it.

Hope all that helps some.

Happy Trails!
D

You know you might be able to install a small inline capacitor to give you the voltage buffer you're looking for here. This is where my electrical knowledge starts getting fuzzy so someone else would need to chime in with more specifics but it popped in my head.

 

[craig333]

Or you go over to your local (large) propane dealer ( the kind that does propane and propane accessories and nothing else) and let the local hank hill tell you whats wrong.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hey DirtyDog

Hang in there. Don't torch the camper yet.



Like the Fisherman said, it is a very simple system.

We will get you squared away. Work with us here. Were trying.

I can ship any parts you need (new tank, new regulator, new propane line, etc.) out tomorrow.

And you can have a local shop swap them out.

I will send you a personal message in the early AM with the details.

Thanks !





.

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

Tank/Alarm/Capacitor

Snow hunter: I'll check the tank tomorrow to see if the brand is on it and report back.

Herr 42: I pull the fuse when that little sucker starts chirping every 30 seconds at 3 AM and plug it back in the next morning. It only happens when the furnace is running a lot.

I think what you say about the voltage falling below the preset limits is correct. It happens when the battery is below peak charge but still registers in the green on the factory installed monitor. When the furnace kicks on the startup load drops the voltage to the propane sensor below the preset limit and that starts the low battery warning cycle. Mean time, furnace is running at normal load and all is well when I check the battery monitor. If I reset (pull the fuse and put it back in) the warning goes off and the green propane sensor light goes on but the same thing happens 15 minutes later, all night long.

Ain't going to happen. I pull the fuse and put it back in next morning (if we're driving (battery charging) or the furnace is off). If I didn't do that, Susan would grab the shotgun and blow that little chirping bird away the second time it went off at O-dark-30...mama don't like her sleep disturbed!

When I was a young kid through young adult our family had a travel trailer, then a camper, both with propane heat/stove/and lights. There were no sensors. We survived, and slept well. Not to worry, we'll live 'till we die.

Pods8: It seems like this thing should reset itself if the power supply goes back within limits instead of me having to pull the fuse and replace it. I'll talk to the FWC folks about it.

A second battery might solve the problem too and I'm probably going to do that before next fall. I'm sure solar in combination with the 2 batteries would do the deed nicely but I'm still debating that one...pretty expensive...and I'm pretty cheap.

Happy Trails!
'birds

 

[pods8]

Pods8: It seems like this thing should reset itself if the power supply goes back within limits instead of me having to pull the fuse and replace it. I'll talk to the FWC folks about it.


I agree that it seems like it should have been designed to reset itself, have you looked of the manufacturers specs for start/stop warning voltages? The "shut up" voltage might be a bit higher than the warning voltage which is why it won't stop chirping but if you reset it via the fuse it will. Anyways the suggestion on the capacitor was to try and level out the voltage, if I'm recalling correctly it stores energy and during the lowered voltage moments when the furnace kicks on it would discharge and possibly keep the voltage high enough to avoid dipping into the warning voltage range.

 

[DirtyDog]

I tell ya, what's great about this community is all the knowledge we have here. It's going to take me a while to go through all these great posts but I'm sure going to know a lot more about propane when I am done! I need to use the truck for some actual truck stuff so the camper is going to be on jacks for at least a week. I'll post updates when I can.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

Lost Focus

Pods8,

Sorry, it was late last night (well after happy hour) and I lost focus on the response to you.

I do recall that capacitors store a charge and, since the time it would need to supply power is so short, a capacitor may be both the most reliable and economical way to make that happen.

Again, seems like the folks that design/manufacture this little 3AM terror might want to investigate that or maybe someone smarter about such things than they (and I) could design one into the circuitry of the sensor, patent it and sell it to them.

I'll continue to disable the sensor when necessary to get some sleep until the manufacturer or FWC provides a solution or until it goes away when I put in dual batteries and (maybe) a solar charger.

Hope your knee is healing quickly!

Happy Trails!
'birds

P.S. I remember capacitors store charge because some joker physics prof I had left one with just enough charge to surprise someone laying on a lab table. It worked. Fortunately for me, someone else got to it before I did.