Ram trucks, payload, suspension, and off-road ability

[CarlG]

Hello WTW!

Been lurking here for a few weeks, seems like a perfect fit for the kind of overlanding and camping I do. Before I ask my first question, let me introduce myself.

I'm currently wheeling a `96 LandCruiser, 2.5" OME heavy springs and shocks, on 285/75r16 duratracs. Got it pretty well decked out for overlanding, 2nd battery, fridge in the back on homemade shelf system.

I'm thinking hard about replacing it with a truck camper setup. Space is pretty tight in the LC with the wife, 2 kids, and dog. We do a lot of tent camping, and I'd like to be able to extend our season to be year-round. I'm dreaming about a flatbed setup with either a FWC or ATC camper, modded somehow to sleep 4.

First things first: the truck.

After the requisite drooling over the Power Wagon, I came to the inescapable conclusion that the payload and range(mpg) just isn't there. I'm quite sensitive to the idea of not overloading the GVWR too badly - I think I've done this on the LC and the braking / handling really suffer.

I think that a late model Ram 2500 / 3500 CTD Crew Cab short wheelbase is the platform for me. The question is, which one? Ram 2500 has the 5-link rear suspension, which sounds attractive to me for on and off-road handling, but payload rating is a tad light at 2230. Ram 3500 has leaf springs in the rear, but has 4000lbs payload.

I'd like to be running 35" x 12.5" , E-rated tires for clearance, and I'm very open to upgrading the suspension (carli? thuren? rancho?)

Thoughts? What setup do you think would give me the optimal balance of highway manners and off-road capability?

Thanks!

 

[longhorn1]

Carl, after looking at the flatbed interior, I made a suggestion to Stan at FWC to add the wood runners above the rear dinette windows on both sides to support a bunk bed over the dinette bed. Set the bunk on the cab over bed at dinner time.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Wander The West mobile app

 

[CarlG]

Carl, after looking at the flatbed interior, I made a suggestion to Stan at FWC to add the wood runners above the rear dinette windows on both sides to support a bunk bed over the dinette bed. Set the bunk on the cab over bed at dinner time.

Yes, that's exactly what I was imagining for sleeping 4! Some kind of bunk, maybe it could just be stretched canvas like a cot, but hung along the length of the camper along one of the sides. I plan on visiting FWC soon (I live 45min away), we'll see. Sounds like they don't do much custom work, which is why ATC seemed like a good alternative to me.

 

[norcalhawk]

CarlG,

True, the payload is ~2300# with a Ram 2500 CTD. Are you set on having a Cummins Diesel? If not, the same truck with the 6.4L Hemi has ~3000# payload.

 

[Durango1]

CarlG,

I have a 2012 Ram 2500 CC with a 2015 Hawk Flatbed. I had a custom aluminum flatbed with four underbed boxes mounted which weighed 190# less than the original steel bed. However, even so, my lightly loaded wet weight with full tanks is 300# over GVW. With two kids and the assorted stuff that a family requires my guess is you will be more. I'd go with the 3500- hands down.

We have the standard Hemi and it has been adquate. I do hear good things about the 6.4 and would go with it. (Wasn't available in 2012.)

We really like our Flatbed Hawk. However, one other reminder would be that at least the way we mounted it would be a nightmare taking it off and then remounting it. Our Hawk mounting is super strong with six Grade 8 bolts and 3" x 5" 1/4" aluminum plates as "washers". But I can't imagine trying to line everything up again. So our Ram has been magically transformed into a 4WD RV and I'm fine with that!

If your kids aren't too big and you can live with a Ford or Chevy than another option would be to go with a long bed with the Grandby and the extended cab instead of a crew cab. This will give you the same basic length but now your family will have a true dinette that will comfortably seat four and sleep two. Or of course you could also do the Ram CC and live with a really long vehicle too. Best wishes!

 

[LookyLou]

After reading the post above about being over GVWR even in a 3/4 ton I just want to make a general comment. When I first started researching truck / camper combinations 4 years ago, a friend who's a 25+ year truck camper told me don't waste your time with anything less than a 1 ton. Best advice I ever followed.

We have a family of 3, son is almost 8 and travel with two 20 lb dogs. Our setup is a Grandby in a crew cab with 6.5' bed. The truck's payload is 4,200 lbs and use about half with camper and gear loaded. Equipment lasts longer and works best when not being operated at or above capacity as a standard course of business. Just be caused you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[Jollyrogers]

I have a '14 Ram 2500 w/ loaded Hawk for me, the wife and 2 dogs. It's adequate, but if I did it again, I would go 3500 as I push GVWR when loaded fully for an outing. I intended on upgrading the rear suspension, but procrastinated. Regardless, the truck has proven to be a beast and have been very happy with the it regarding range, mpg, and ability for that big of a rig off-road.

 

[simimike]

When I was truck shopping I would decide on a truck then go to the after market suspension web sites to find out what was available. I found that Ram does have some after market stuff for their multilink but not near as much as the standard axles have. With just me and my wife I went with a Chevy 1500 heavy payload package (2070 lb) and airbags.

 

[CarlG]

HI everyone,

Thanks so much for your responses. It does seem that the consensus is that the 1-ton payload is important for the type of setup I'm thinking about. Here are my thoughts:

How does the 3500 with leaf springs do off-road? What kind of off-road performance can I expect, compared to my current setup? What size tires would I be able to run? What kind of suspension upgrades would be helpful?

Am I right in thinking that the only difference between the 2500 and 3500 is the suspension? Is the rest of the drivetrain, brakes, etc the same? If so, it seems like an upgraded suspension and tires on the 2500 would increase the effective payload, if not what the sticker says...

As far as diesel vs hemi goes, I guess the MPG and resulting range is really what I'm thinking about. getting 10-12 on the hemi doesn't sound too attractive.

 

[Durango1]

Re: suspension remember that a 9,000# plus PU with camper mounted probably will not do much serious rock crawling. (We have a 2 door Rubicon that we pull with a tow bar for that.) Our stock suspension/ stock tires Ram has never gotten stuck. (It does have a limited slip differential.) But we may be more conservative (chicken?) than you are. My motto is carry the winch but hopefully never need to use it.

On the road my 2012 5.7 Hemi with the camper loaded (and conservatively driven) gets 14 mpg. A diesel will do better. But you do have higher maintenance costs and more additive issues plus a higher initial cost.

But I will say nothing beats the sound of a diesel exhaust!

 

[LookyLou]

My Chevy 3500 has 265/75R18 tires on stock suspension. You mentioned your current vehicle had. 2.5" lift. There won't be much clearance difference. Your vehicle is just plain more maneuverable especially tight turns. The longer wheel base of the truck gives you less break over angle. You will be more cautious in tight spots where the camper can be damaged. It sounds like you have a pretty fair amount of off road experience.

My truck is a diesel with an electronic locking rear differential. Pure highway driving is 16.5 mpg. Off road using 4 wheel drive it gets 12.5 mpg. Measured combined mpg on trips ranges from 14.5 to 15. All mileage is with camper loaded.

To me the beauty about the diesel is that at 1,600 rpm you're right at peak torque. It will literally almost idle up, down, or over (clearance limiting) anything. Put it in 4Lo and it's pretty unstoppable. We travel mostly solo so we don't get too crazy. My wife is pretty adventurous and she's usually my guide to when enough is enough.

 

[CarlG]

Yeah, honestly I don't do anything too challenging - not expecting to do any rock crawling in a 1-ton+camper! I just like to have a tool that is more than adequate for the job - you never know what conditions you're going to find on your favorite haunts season to season, and getting the family stuck out in the cut isn't my idea of a good time.

Thanks for all the opinions!

 

[turn_one]

I've owned rear leaf and the current rear coil link Ram 2500 trucks, both diesels. My 2011 had Carli suspension components and Bilsteins to include an upgraded rear leaf, my current 2015 has Thuren parts. Do your own research but manufacturers GVW ratings can be vague and not a true indicator of a vehicles limits, and there's not a lot of difference between the 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks aside from spring rates. The newer Ram 2500s only come with coil rears where as 3500 are leaf.

Having owned both, I'm over the moon with how the new long arm, rear coil models ride. The harsh ride is one of the main reasons I upgraded from my 2011. With Thuren coils front and rear, it's even better in my opinion. I did add air bags to the rear to increase the load capacity while the camper is on.

 

[norcalhawk]

I did a fair amount of research regarding 2500 (coils) vs 3500 (leafs). My set up is a fully loaded,'12 Hawk, with racks and solar on top. Weight of camper is ~2200#. I keep my Hawk on the truck 24/7. Presently, I carry this on my '02 Tundra with air bags and E tires.
The 2500 CTD payload is ~2350#, same 2500 with the 6.4L Hemi is ~3000#. The 3500 with Hemi or CTD is ~4000#. The payload on my Tundra is ~1500#...I know! There are many of us doing this....?
Yes, coils are said to offer a smoother ride, but I feel the camper on a 3500 will soften the ride considerably and carry the weight well. You can add air bags to the 2500, but this will not increase the payload...however, bags will level the load and add some stability.
So, with what you are looking for, I would suggest looking seriously into a 3500 with the 4.10 gear ratio. If you're not going to tow heavy, >8-10,000#, consider the 6.4L Hemi. This is a good engine. Also, regarding MPG, know the difference between gas and diesel has narrowed considerably due to new technology in gas engines vs diesel engines with the extreme emission requirements added on...

 

[Durango1]

So, with what you are looking for, I would suggest looking seriously into a 3500 with the 4.10 gear ratio. If you're not going to tow heavy, >8-10,000#, consider the 6.4L Hemi. This is a good engine. Also, regarding MPG, know the difference between gas and diesel has narrowed considerably due to new technology in gas engines vs diesel engines with the extreme emission requirements added on...

You just described my next truck! Except I'll likely go with a regular cab chassis cab SRW 3500 and a custom flatbed with a FWC Grandby or ATC. X2 on the advantages of the 6.4 vs CTD if you're not towing heavy. I have the regular 5.7 Hemi (which is honestly adequate) now and lust after the 6.4!

 

[Ace!]

I think traction for a full-size (with camper) is more a function of tires, gearing and traction devices, than it is suspension. So, I'd worry about a lot more than coils or leafs in the rear. One of the difficulties is that gearing works well with MPG or it works well with crawl ratio, but not with both. So, you pick a compromise.

I have 4.30 with limited slips front and rear. Off road I'd like 4.88. On road I think 4.10 would be better, most of the time. However, even on road 4.30 gives me passing gearing/speed unlike most trucks (even those much lighter).

Another issue is weight. You're on the right path when you pick a lightweight camper (FWC/ATC), but the point I'd counter is the diesel. Diesel is great for MPG or range, but if you really do the math, for most people it doesn't pencil. Range is almost never pencils (I've never seen it pencil in the US). There are remote places but almost never outside of the range of 200 miles in the US. Even the most thirsty gassers are going 200+ miles, or you carry a five gallon can (but only when you think you'll need it). So, almost always (in the US) when someone wants the range, they "want" the range. They don't need it.

To get back to the weight. Diesel engines weigh more. That's why their payloads are less. You put a lot of extra weight up front when you buy the diesel. You could put the heaviest bumper/winch combo up front and equal the diesel, over gas. Weight is a killer off road.

So. Really. What do you want? What do you need? I think nine times out of ten, if the person does the figgerin' they'll find they are better off with the F350/3500 with a gas engine. Most people won't drive the miles, so the gasser is really the best decision, and in addition to that they'll want the gearing that matches their commute miles (3.55 - 3.77) and fewer will need the 4.10/4.11 ratio.

All of that being said, if you're like me (minority), you'll want the lighter weight and you'll want (not necessarily need) the 4.88 ratio with either selectable lockers front and rear or (like me) limited slips front and rear. Put blocks under the rear leafs if you need another couple inches, or a "budget boost".

To end this long winded diatribe, I think you should buy the truck you want. Add limited slips front and rear and you'll go anywhere a person with a truck camper should ever go

 

[Durango1]

To end this long winded diatribe, I think you should buy the truck you want. Add limited slips front and rear and you'll go anywhere a person with a truck camper should ever go

Well stated. My 2012 Ram 2500 4WD has stock tires and limited slip only on the 3.73 rear. We've done quite a bit of moderate four-wheeling and never been stuck! (yet)

 

[Ace!]

'xactly. Bring a shovel and when everyone else is puckering. Call it an experience.

 

[Durango1]

'xactly. Bring a shovel and when everyone else is puckering. Call it an experience.

Yep, we carry two shovels. Never had to use the big one. And let's not mention what the small one gets used for in the far-off wilderness...

PS We also carry a hitch mounted 10,000# Warn winch with synthetic rope. It has pulled out others but never had the honor of helping me. I hope to keep it that way!

 

[CarlG]

I'm in pretty serious analysis paralysis mode here! The 2500 hemi has the payload I'd need. When I talked to folks at FWC and Carli, they did not skip a beat recommending the 3500. While I agree that weight is a killer, I think I've already jumped off the deep end in that regard.

Went and drove the 3500 ctd last week. Hard to gauge driving these things unloaded though. At the end of the day - I could make any of these trucks work just fine. As far as recovery goes - my current thinking is that shovels and traction ladders are the best bet. The one time I got stuck in my cruiser and used the winch I melted the terminal off my starter batt. Experience, right?