Rear Suspension :: Airbags vs Helper Springs

[alongthewayside]

I have a 2016 Toyota Tundra SR5 and am ordering a FWC Hawk this summer (right around 1500 lbs with options).

My wife and I are planning a six month road trip around the western United States next summer. Since we'll be on the road for such a long time with the Hawk on the back, I want to make sure the truck is properly prepared.

I'm planning to modify/supplement the rear suspension and put E rated tires on the truck.

On the rear suspension, I have seen and heard a lot about both Hellwig Pro Series helper springs, and various airbag suspension systems.

Curious which people prefer, why and the pros/cons you've found in your experience and research.

Thanks!


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[Stalking Light]

I have a Tacoma with an Eagle and I started out with just Ride Rite airbags and E rated tires but found the ride too bouncy and eventually upgraded my suspension to OME with heavy springs and an extra leaf in the rear. I do have an ARB winch bumper on the front and an Aluminess on the rear with swingouts now but even before I added them I wasn't real happy with the ride - not too bad on the highway but not too good on dirt. This may have been overkill but I am very happy with my current setup.

 

[buckland]

I had my Eagle on a 2001 Tacoma. I first put Firestone air bags and they helped a great deal. Stopped the bounce and sway. As the truck was old I decided to add an extra leaf. It was fine for when I had the camper on but had to carry 500 lbs. of sand when not....way too stiff. I am getting a new truck tomorrow (Colorado diesel 3/4 ton) I plan on adding the air bags again but not the leaf. I will see how the stock shocks feel and then maybe upgrade if necessary. Welcome to the group. You are never going to regret getting a FWC.

 

[Wallowa]

Hey ATWS,

Sounds like a great combo....but remember the real weight of the Hawk will exceed 1,500 lbs; by how much depends not only what you add but what the wet weight will be..'05 Tundra 4x4 SR5 AC with '16 Hawk...Hellwig Anti-sway bar made a huge difference in stopping almost all "wallowing" [think emergency maneuver to dodge a deer] and the Firestone Ride-Rites have dampened out the ride plus allowed the vehicle to be leveled front to back and right to left...springs are pretty much fool proof, but the airbags are adjustable. I plan to weigh our combo in the near future if I can find a scale around here..

We plan to add a portable compressor and perhaps either a High-Lift jack and/or Warn winch...I have a front and rear 2" receiver. Front receiver is a 'Curt' and rear is the OEM. But ultimately weight will be a limiter...just not certain how much weight is too much; forgetting all the GVW dire warnings and predictions..what I have found is that you need to drive slower with more weight because your stopping distance has greater lengthened..

Our set up is for off road travel but it is applicable for pavement as well...

Good luck and keep us posted..

Phil

 

[PaulT]

I plan to weigh our combo in the near future if I can find a scale around here..

Phil

Most of the Oregon state highway scales remain on and active even when they are not being used to check trucks. Just bring binoculars and/or camera with telephoto so that you can read the display in daylight. Platform is large enough to read front, rear, or both axles.

Paul

 

[Wallowa]

Most of the Oregon state highway scales remain on and active even when they are not being used to check trucks. Just bring binoculars and/or camera with telephoto so that you can read the display in daylight. Platform is large enough to read front, rear, or both axles.

Paul

Thanks Paul but the closest scale is out on Hwy 84 about 80+ miles from us and that through the mountains...may try one of the agriculture products scales locally..

Phil

 

[bobc]

I have a 2010 tacoma with a 2010 eagle. when I took delivery at the factory., the truck was really squatting so bad big rigs were annoyed by my low beam headlights. I first tried Hellwig helper springs . These didn't help one bit. So I removed the springs and installed Firestone Airbags . What a difference that made. It now rides level, the ride comfort was vastly improved and they helped eliminate a lot of sway. Plus installing 6 ply tires helped a lot. I maintain pressure with a bicycle pump. I keep them inflated at about 40 psi. The only problem I've ever had was on the Dalton Highway in Alaska last summer the cheap compact tire pump that I was using completely failed and drained all the air from one bag. Not wanting to drive on an empty bag. I flagged down a bicyclist and borrowed his compact pump to inflate the bags. I figure the camper weighs 1500 lbs loaded with water and all. I've been using this rig for six years now and I'm still happy with the way it handles and rides.

 

[ntsqd]

I'd think a farmer's co-op would have scales too. I used to use the Harbor Fright mother-ship's scales because they too used to leave them on all of the time, but they must have seen one of my posts....

 

[JHanson]

Alongthewayside,

After owning, driving, and reviewing a lot of different suspension setups for carrying a camper, I've come to the conclusion that there are two ideal ways to go.

1. If you plan to remove the camper between trips, air bags are the only way to support the additional weight while retaining a decent ride with the camper removed. Matching air bags with adjustable shocks allows you to tune the rear suspension as needed.

2. If the camper will stay on permanently, a set of custom rear springs specced to level the truck with the empty camper mounted, along with a set of air bags to fine tune the support when gear, water, etc. is added for a trip, makes an excellent combination.

I don't really like any kind of helper spring; it's better to set up the main spring pack correctly to start with. Companies such as Deaver have been doing this for a long time.

Jonathan

 

[forrestthorniley]

I don't have much to offer other than that I am figuring out my similar setup (2015 Tundra DC with 2016 Hawk on order). I plan on leaving the camper on full time, but I will be varying the load. My shell will probably weigh 1000 pounds with propane and batteries. Plus ~500 pounds for gear and passengers depending on the trip. I was looking at custom springs but will probably hold off on that now due to cost and not knowing what my real world weight will be over time. I was also looking at the hellwig and supersprings. But for the cost ($650 installed vs airbags and daystar cradles for $770) I am leaning towards airbags for the adjustability (and future compatibility with a custom leaf pack).

My truck has a Toytec 3/1 lift kit and the rear has a 1 inch block as well as an additional leaf. I think this along with airbags will be a good starting point, then I can fine tune the leaf pack later or even get a full custom set once I know what my average weight will be. Right now the truck rides like crap on cement highways though! (used to have a 300# flippac on it). My tires are 295/70R18 Nitto Terra Grapplers (E rated).

 

[Kodachrome]

I am using a 2005 Tacoma with an ATC Bobcat.

I have built up the back end quite a bit, Alcan off road leaf pack spec'd for the extra weight, RideRite airbags and 2" Icon rear reservoir shocks valved for the extra weight. I have never had an issue with bounce as long as the bags are aired up, the truck tracks the corners like it's stock with practically no body roll and it is pushing 6,000-6,200 pounds loaded.

The camper is on full time and I do a *lot* of fairly rough off roading at home ( Colorado ) and beyond. The rubber is 265/75/R16 AT/KO-II in load range E.

Better to go with overkill than stranded I say.

 

[DonC]

I went with the advice of JHanson and had Deaver Springs build custom springs that they installed today. I previously only had airbags on my 06 Tundra 4 x 4, along wth E tires. The new springs take my truck to normal height, and now the bags are only needed to fine tune based on extra weight or distribution during a trip. The truck rides much better, more stable, feels tighter.

Cost was less than $600 and that included installing new rear Bilsteins that I supplied.

Great guys at Deavers. Springs are all they do, and they ship all over the country. They said they've done several campers in the last few weeks.

 

[K7MDL]

Might consider Timbrens rubber springs as a compromise, and they are relatively inexpensive and easy to intall/remove if you need something more. I have used them on 2 trucks now with a FWC loaded on each and they perform well. Unloaded, they do not touch the springs, loaded they act similar to an airbag with a progressive action which also helps level side to side, though not completely like an airbag can do, but well enough (<1/2" in my case). They replace the jounce bumpers and are under $250.

I swapped from airbags to these as they will never leak, and I do not have to worry about off road over extension and installing limiting straps, and give stock ride when unloaded.

My trucks were RAM 2500+grandby and F150+Hawk, and under GVWR, so not running overloaded and serve to level the truck under load more than make up for weak springs/overloading such as smaller trucks have to deal with more.

 

[DannyB1954]

About 6 years ago I installed Monroe helper shocks, (with springs around outside), on my 1/2 ton Dakota P/u. I was gathering firewood for people. With the installed shocks I could carry about half a cord of wood no problem. They have never needed an air fill and they do ride nicely even without a load on the truck.
The down side is the shock mounts are not designed to be weight bearing members. They are designed to restrict the movement of the truck via the shock. Some claim this is asking for trouble. I have not had a problem. Bottom line is I would do the same again. If there was a big liability issue, I don't believe Monroe would be selling them under their name.

 

[bimmeryota]

I've had airbags on two trucks and firmly believe that the only way to go is to have a spring made for what you're carrying and the kind of terrain you're on. Off road, airbags have too much rebound and limit up travel to stuff your tire. I even had cradles and prevented tearing them or pulling on the hardware but that only addressed one motion. When I had them in my T100 with my FWC I felt the pressure of the bags on the frame flexed my frame in a potentially negative way. Those trucks have a rear axle that is pretty far forward in the bed so the center of gravity is (hopefully) right on the axle and definitely not in front of it so that pivot point on the bump stop area seemed to flex the rearward part of the frame more. After I got the custom deaver springs the weight was properly distributed on the spring mounts (not the bumps top area) and the flex was noticeably less. Granted I leave my camper on full time so having it off is not needed. When I had the airbags on my other truck with no load I did not feel the ride was normal. Travel was still limited and rebound was still bad even with 5psi in them. I also had pretty soft leaf springs at the time though.


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[sourdough]

I have a 2016 Toyota Tundra SR5 and am ordering a FWC Hawk this summer (right around 1500 lbs with options).

My wife and I are planning a six month road trip around the western United States next summer. Since we'll be on the road for such a long time with the Hawk on the back, I want to make sure the truck is properly prepared.

I'm planning to modify/supplement the rear suspension and put E rated tires on the truck.

On the rear suspension, I have seen and heard a lot about both Hellwig Pro Series helper springs, and various airbag suspension systems.

Curious which people prefer, why and the pros/cons you've found in your experience and research.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

Your truck is going to be overloaded but you all ready know that. IBTDT and it is not every enjoyable when you think about all the consequences doing so. I wanted a new Tundra but it just isn't rated for my purpose either.

 

[Bill D]

I've had airbags on two trucks and firmly believe that the only way to go is to have a spring made for what you're carrying and the kind of terrain you're on. Off road, airbags have too much rebound and limit up travel to stuff your tire.

I agree. I have Firestone airbags on my GMC Sierra 1500. I'm not over my payload and I don't do much offload, just gravel, so they work for me, but it is kind of like having beach balls for suspension. It does make for a nice highway ride and it's easy to level out the ride height though.

I used to drive a GMC 3500 for my oilfield truck and even as a conservative driver, I can tell you I'd be dead with some of the bumps that I have hit driving down forestry trunk roads etc if I hit them with my 1500 with airbags. I would have bounced right of the road or blew an airbag.

Too much suspension can also be a bad thing though. I usually didn't have enough weight on the 3500 and it was kind of like driving a jack hammer at times. Sometimes the rear end would get a little light on washboard roads, to the point that I was almost drifting.

There is no substitute for the proper suspension, but even the heaviest haulers have airbags in combination with a heavy suspension.

 

[sourdough]

Air bags are to fragile for real off roading. I replaced mine after one blew with these.... http://www.activesuspension.com
Now waiting for the new F250.

 

[SunMan]

Air bags are to fragile for real off roading. I replaced mine after one blew with these.... http://www.activesuspension.com
Now waiting for the new F250.

This is out of character for me but I feel must chime in here and respectfully disagree after reading three posts bashing airbags.

I've been running Firestone Ride Rites for nearly a decade now as have many others without incident. I have not driven conservatively with them and have put them through about as extreme abuse one could expect with a camper on a vehicle without issue. I'm sorry, but I feel it is disingenuous to scare away newbies asking questions from using something that is actually quite capable. In short, airbags are not too fragile for off-roading.

Coincidentally a friend of mine and WTW member bought your old airbags when you sold them. It is our novice opinion that the cradles you installed with yours were the cause of your problems and actually pinched the airbag, just my opinion. Anyway, enjoy the new rig.

 

[Vic Harder]

I'm wondering how all of these "spring" upgrades affect the ability of the shocks to handle the higher spring rates. Suspension systems are designed to work together, and the shock has to be able to moderate the rate at which the tires (unsprung weight) move up and down. If adding beefier springs (air bags too) should one not also be upping the capacity of the shocks? Is there an easy way to do that?

I the past when dialing in my track Miata, I would call the shock company and tell them the spring rate they had to valve the shock for. Is there a simpler way to buy parts off the shelf that would work with a much stiffer spring (dual shocks?)

Vic