Revisiting the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton question....

[radarcontact]

Hi all....I'm shown as a newbie here, but have actually owned my Hawk for 2 years now....just don't comment very much. I enjoy reading what others post more .

In any case, just wanted to talk a little about trucks. There have been some good threads on this site regarding the efficacy of 1/2 ton trucks vs. 3/4 ton and higher for pop-ups, particularly with the increased weight newer Four Wheel campers are experiencing. Mine is pretty loaded, and heavy, around 1500#. I have a 2014 Silverado 1500 Z71 with Ride Rite air bags, and it seems to handle the load pretty well, with the regular 4-ply tires, brakes fine, However, when we're dry, with me and my wife and gear (we don't take much) we're at or over GVWR by 100/200#, more if we go wet or pack more stuff. And, the truck does feel 'loaded', for lack of a better term...hard to define that, but you can feel the inertia/mass as you round a corner. Is it safe? I would say yes, but I'm not sure how the truck components will hold up with a big load, after a few years.

In any case, I've (painfully) opted to trade my 1/2 ton in for a 2500 Z71. I probably wouldn't have done it, except I got a very good deal from the dealer I bought my 1/2 ton from...he deals in sheer volume, and can get the price down pretty well. My trade-in was excellent, too, in terms of value given.

I'm posting this just as an informational piece, for anyone who's contemplating doing the same thing, i.e., trading up to a 3/4 ton, or simply having trouble deciding what kind of truck to buy initially for their camper. I'll be picking up the new truck in a few days, and plan on getting out and camping thereafter. I'll post my thoughts in a few weeks and let anyone know who's interested if going the 3/4 ton route was worth it, overall, in terms of money/effort spent, vs. perceived benefit(s). On the surface, it may seem to many that the 3/4 ton would usually win out, but I'm not so sure....1/2 tons often have a more comfortable ride, better gas mileage, etc., so I don't think the differences can be generalized too easily. In any case, I'll try to be as unbiased and honest about my conclusions as I possibly can.

As an aside, thanks to all of you for some really informative and interesting posts. I've found that, if you have a question about your camper, you can usually find the answer here. Great community of enthusiasts we have online, a great resource.

 

[K7MDL]

With a 1/2 ton it comes down to the right 1/2 ton. These days select models are, or nearly the same capacity as the traditional 3/4 ton, so sweeping statements like a 1/2 ton cannot do the job correctly are no longer true, assuming you find the appropriate payload build. They do vary quite a bit. With my F150 at 2000#, it handles a Hawk and tows a lighter trailer perfectly and still under GVW. The long beds F150 can come with payloads up to 3300#. The line between 1/2 and 3/4 is now totally blurred. I used to carry a hitch mounted motorcycle on my 3/4 ton with camper, I won't be doing that with the F150, but I have a trailer for that, so the right tool for the right job as always. One can always over do it though, nothing wrong with that. Compared to where you were payload wise, you will be feeling better now, and a new truck is always fun, so enjoy! Think of the extra stuff you can now haul along, maybe start towing Jeeps and stuff too . Could be the start of a slippery slope for you.

 

[orion]

Cool, looking forward to your experiences by moving from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton. I'm in a F-150 right now, and I think if I ever do move up, I'll go for a 1-ton just for more headroom in payload/CWR.

 

[Timothy McGowen]

Interested to hear what you think after you have the new truck for a while. Still too soon for me to make comments on my new F150.

 

[Beach]

I recently moved the Hawk from a 06 Tundra access cab with the 4.0l motor, super springs e tires and HD shocks to a 2012 f250 4x4 6.2 gasser. After spending almost 3 weeks on the road in Colo. , crossing the divide 4 times and towing a Uhaul back from Denver to Texas for my daughter, I have no regrets. The f250 gets approx. 1 mpg less than the Tundra did, Handles the camper weight much better, cornering and off road stability, the bigger brakes are much welcomed. I gladly give up that 1 mpg for the increased capability. Mileage varied from 13.0-12.2 hwy running 65-75mph and slow going on dirt roads and 4x4 offroad. Towing the trailer we ran 65-75 interstate driving and the worst was 11.7 bucking a headwind most of the way. Bottom line, I don't feel like the camper is pushing the truck around any more.

 

[2tallDA]

4ply tires would be a C rated tire. I couldn't imagine anything less than a D on a 1/2 ton. Preferably and E with that camper. I don't see how manufacturers get away with p-rated(passenger) tires on a light truck.

 

[orion]

Definitely E rated for any truck camper configuration. Also, first thing I'd do is replace the factory shocks and put a rear sway bar on.

 

[radarcontact]

@2tallDA...I agree. If I had kept the 1/2 ton I would have changed out the tires to E. The ride with the stock tires wasn't bad, but my bigger concerns were payload capacity, axle weight, braking, not killing someone because I'm too loaded, etc. Typically I've stayed the course with decisions like this, and had I not been able to work an acceptable deal for the 3/4 ton I bought I would have rode out the 1/2 ton for better or worse. Chevy's 1/2 ton payload is not bad, around 1800-1900 depending on the model, but technically too light duty for my camper.

I was guilty, as others have been, of not thoroughly doing my due diligence when ordering my camper. I assumed it would weigh between 1000-1100#, for various reasons I won't mention here. When delivered, the bill of lading had the stated weight of 1500+ #. Had I been more careful during the ordering process I would have given the weight factor more consideration. I did weigh it several times on truck scales close to my home near Teton Pass, and the stated weight was accurate. In fact, I'm thinking I may start another post, mainly for new/prospective Four Wheel owners, cautioning them about the weights involved and making sure they know the weight of the camper they want BEFORE they order it. Makes for a happy camper LOL.

 

[ACEBLACKDOG]

2013 SILVERADO 2500 HD CREW CAB z71 4x4....6.0L
hardly even know the camper is back there...

 

[DYNOBOB]

Cool, looking forward to your experiences by moving from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton. I'm in a F-150 right now, and I think if I ever do move up, I'll go for a 1-ton just for more headroom in payload/CWR.

IMO, you will not regret a 1-ton. My philosophy has always been: They all get crappy mileage - buy a big/strong truck! When the FWC idea/purchase developed it reconfirmed my philosophy. It was nice to set it on the truck I've had for 8yrs and drive away - no suspension mods, buying tires, or weight concerns. I'm prob atypical, but 95% of the time my truck is moving it has something behind it, often with over 1000lbs of tongue weight.

 

[rotti]

2013 SILVERADO 2500 HD CREW CAB z71 4x4....6.0L
hardly even know the camper is back there...

Couldn't agree more.
2012 SILVERADO 2500HD CREW Z71 4x4 6.0L
Camper has been on full-time for four years with no suspension mods done or needed.
Great combo.

On edit: My Hawk dry at the scales was 1340 with the jacks removed. Here is the sticker on the camper:
740 pounds wet...(I think a shell version weighs more than that)

Loaded and wet, two people and a dog the truck is packing over a ton. I still have a surplus of about 500 pounds payload capacity.

 

[ntsqd]

I keep seeing the "Load Range E" recommendation and I don't get it. Our 3/4t dead stock CTD with no camper scaled at 6470 lbs. Our load range D 315/70R17 tires say 3195 lbs. @ 50 psi, so two tires could nearly carry the whole, empty truck and the 4 tires take us well past our 8800 lbs. GVWR.

With a smaller truck I can see where the E tires might be very helpful, but on a full size 3/4t or heavier that only ever carries a pop-top camper I'm not sure they're a requirement. Perhaps that extra carcass stiffness is desired because they want to truck to be more like a go-kart in the handling dept.? I'd rather have the on and off road ride quality and the sway has never been an issue. Mayhap the sway isn't an issue because I learned to drive corners fast in a car that heeled over like a sailboat?

 

[DYNOBOB]

99% of 2500/3500 trucks I've seen come stock with E tires...

I do have a set of the D 315/70-17 on H2 wheels that I run sometimes and have never been worried since they have the same rating as my stock Es. I don't think all Ds are rated this high though.

.

 

[K7MDL]

For carrying heavy loads the stiffer E range tires reduce sway feel due to sidewall shift around corners. I also prefer E (A/T) tires on my '16 F150 and the 4dr Jeep because they are more resistant to puncture on sharp rocks when driving off road. Thick tread and stiff carcass. The stock Jeep C rated tires were sliced instantly by rocks and you could push with your finger and flex the carcass. E not so. D somewhere in the middle of it all. I believe it is easier to find C and E replacement tires in stock also than Ds. In the case of a light vehicle on the E tires, I had 42,000 miles on the BFG A/T KO E tires and they had not yet wore off the mold nubs at the top sides of the lugs. Less than a 1/16" wear. They would have outlasted the Jeeps life. I run them at 28-32lbs to get a reasonable ride quality and wear pattern. On my F150, I run them at 34-36psi unloaded, 60# with the Hawk and trailer. They are rated for 80psi, but that is for a much heavier truck and load, my F150 is only 7000lbs loaded up.

 

[craig333]

With that heavy diesel engine up front I can't imagine running anything less than E rated tires on my truck. I find a good stiff tire is much more road friendly to me at least.

 

[radarcontact]

Dynobob....You're definitely on target with the gas issue. It kills me that, in this day and age, gas pickup trucks get the abysmal MPG they do. Your pics of your one ton look great. The camper must be like a feather in that bed.

I suppose I'm hoping for a similar experience. I've weighed the pros and cons of staying with what I have/going beefier. and, for me, a better suspension won the argument. I'm picking up the new truck tomorrow, and I'll follow up on this thread in a few weeks regarding my feelings about my decision. Right now, I feel like it's a no-brainer, but I've been around too long to get sucked into that kind of thinking. Of course, it'll be too late to do anything about it if I feel later on that I did the wrong thing....but I'm used to being wrong. Just ask my wife LOL.

 

[Squatch]

I keep seeing the "Load Range E" recommendation and I don't get it. Our 3/4t dead stock CTD with no camper scaled at 6470 lbs. Our load range D 315/70R17 tires say 3195 lbs. @ 50 psi, so two tires could nearly carry the whole, empty truck and the 4 tires take us well past our 8800 lbs. GVWR.

With a smaller truck I can see where the E tires might be very helpful, but on a full size 3/4t or heavier that only ever carries a pop-top camper I'm not sure they're a requirement. Perhaps that extra carcass stiffness is desired because they want to truck to be more like a go-kart in the handling dept.? I'd rather have the on and off road ride quality and the sway has never been an issue. Mayhap the sway isn't an issue because I learned to drive corners fast in a car that heeled over like a sailboat?

That gets me a lot on here. I think the problem arises because so many OEM are using "P" rated passenger tires. Many people think that these are C rated tires. Might be weight wise. But there is a huge difference between a P and a C rated LT truck tire. I won't run a "P" on my light SUV even. My C rated LT tires in a flotation size. 32x11.50x15 are rated for 2,500+lbs each. Yes there is some movement in the carcass at under 35 lbs pressure but if pumped up to max they stiffen up fine. I've found E rated don't work well of road on light trucks. They don't deform well unless really weighted down and crazy low air pressure. 3/4 ton sure. On a Taco I think they are way overkill.

 

[DYNOBOB]

Dynobob....You're definitely on target with the gas issue. It kills me that, in this day and age, gas pickup trucks get the abysmal MPG they do. Your pics of your one ton look great. The camper must be like a feather in that bed.

I suppose I'm hoping for a similar experience. I've weighed the pros and cons of staying with what I have/going beefier. and, for me, a better suspension won the argument. I'm picking up the new truck tomorrow, and I'll follow up on this thread in a few weeks regarding my feelings about my decision. Right now, I feel like it's a no-brainer, but I've been around too long to get sucked into that kind of thinking. Of course, it'll be too late to do anything about it if I feel later on that I did the wrong thing....but I'm used to being wrong. Just ask my wife LOL.

Are you getting your truck from Dave Smith?

.

 

[ntsqd]

I should mention that I didn't go looking for D's, that is just what the tires that I wanted happened to be. Also running H2 wheels.

I see the stiff carcass and sidewalls of an E as a downside to terrain compliance.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread enough. Back 1/2t vs. 3/4t....

 

[radarcontact]

@Dynobob....yeah, second one from those guys. They do a good job with pricing. I have a couple relatives who worked in the auto sales business, and I think I have a pretty good idea how things go, and where dealers make their money. Smith works exclusively on volume, volume, volume, and they discount their vehicles decently. I've been very happy w/them. Have you done business with them as well?