Rig Build with FWC Hawk
- Thread starter jclifb
- Start date
pvstoy
Senior Member
The newer fwc have the Iota with a built in module for AGM batteries.
Can someone with that knowledge advise if this rudimentary diagram is correct?
All I am attempting to do is replace the battery with a lithium battery and the Iota charger with a Victron Smart Charger IP22.
Apologies for beating a dead horse here. I have talked to a lot of different electrical shops over the last 24hrs that tell the IP22 will work, but none are familiar specifically with FWC setups.
All I am attempting to do is replace the battery with a lithium battery and the Iota charger with a Victron Smart Charger IP22.
Apologies for beating a dead horse here. I have talked to a lot of different electrical shops over the last 24hrs that tell the IP22 will work, but none are familiar specifically with FWC setups.
Jon R
Senior Member
That IP22 charger definitely will work. I was planning to replace my Iota with one but then had second thoughts based on how seldom I charge from shore power.
I would not consider your drawing fully correct. You seem to be only drawing the positive routing, and you have mixed the AC circuit breaker panel in with the 12 vdc fuse panel.
The DC output of the IP 22 should connect into your camper just as the Iota did. Same with the AC input side, except you might want to install a 120 vac receptacle in the cabinet rather than cutting off the plug on the IP22.
I would not consider your drawing fully correct. You seem to be only drawing the positive routing, and you have mixed the AC circuit breaker panel in with the 12 vdc fuse panel.
The DC output of the IP 22 should connect into your camper just as the Iota did. Same with the AC input side, except you might want to install a 120 vac receptacle in the cabinet rather than cutting off the plug on the IP22.
+1 to what Jon R said. I did cut the plug off of mine.
Jon R
Senior Member
OP - is your camper a front dinette model? I ask just because that’s what I have and I’m familiar with most of the electrical layout in the cabinets.
Yeah my drawing was really to wrap my head around how power gets to where it's needed, not so much an accurate depiction of the actual wiring in the camper.Jon R said:
I ordered both the Victron Smart Charger IP22 and a Progressive Dynamics PD9130LV in hopes that one will suffice and can send back the unused one. Whichever one is easiest is the one I will use I imagine.
It doesn't IQ4 is a module. Some of the Iota's have swap-able modules, others do not. Whether swappable or not, the IQ4 adds the "smarts" to the iOTa. Without it, they are a really dumb ACDC power converter/charger.tstumpfig said:
Jon R
Senior Member
The optional dongle-style modules for the DLS-30 were called IQ4 as you describe. There is a module for lithium batteries. The actual model called the DLS-30/IQ4, though, has no ability to use the IQ4 modules (go figure), and is designed for AGM batteries. That’s what i have in my 2021 Grandby, and it’s what FWC has been installing for the last few years. It does not charge my lithium battery in any useful way (you’ve read that story). It sounds like FWC recently changed to another brand.
Jon R
Senior Member
The PD9130LV is a 30 amp charger for lithium batteries like the IP22, but it appears its settings are not user adjustable. I like the way the Victron smart gear is accessible by Bluetooth and phone app and the charge parameters and other features are controllable. Like Vic and others here, I have been very happy with my Victron equipment.
If you don’t have a battery monitor you might want to consider that as one of your early purchases.
If you don’t have a battery monitor you might want to consider that as one of your early purchases.
So if understand correctly, the charger that I am replacing is only converting 120v shore power to 12v power that charges the lithium battery. The lithium battery then provides power to my panel that then all of the 12v appliances run off of.
Therefore, the Victron converter/charger (120v in -> 12v out) only needs to charge my battery up.
My next question then, should I wire my truck to the camper via the stock wiring since I am now charging a lithium battery? I have been told that the lithium will pull a constant drain on my alternator and fry it...
Therefore, the Victron converter/charger (120v in -> 12v out) only needs to charge my battery up.
My next question then, should I wire my truck to the camper via the stock wiring since I am now charging a lithium battery? I have been told that the lithium will pull a constant drain on my alternator and fry it...
Jon R
Senior Member
The current charger you have, which I assume is an Iota DLS30/IQ4, turns on when you connect to shore power, turn on the main 120 VAC breaker on the camper panel, and turn on the individual breaker for the converter.
When it turns on, it will come up in either power supply mode or charger mode depending on whether it senses the presence of a battery. The mode and stage of battery charging it thinks it should be in determines what it does with the output voltage.
The positive output of the DLS30 is connected to the supply bus bar of the 12 VDC fuse panel. The positive wire from the truck connector is also connected to this bus bar via the Blue Sea ACR. The battery is connect to this same bus bar via the round silver battery switch. I BELIEVE the solar wires coming from the solar charger, if you have one from the factory, are connected directly to the battery so the solar system can charge the battery even when the silver kill switch is off (can someone with factory solar please confirm this?).
So, even with the battery switch off or the battery removed, the DLS30 can function as a 30 amp 120 ac to 12 vdc converter and power everything in your camper. If an AGM battery is connected and the battery switch is on, the DLS30 will sense the battery and be in charger mode, but your camper loads can steal current from it. That’s Ok.
The inability of the DLS30 to charge a lithium battery effectively stems from the higher lithium battery voltage at partial charge being higher than the voltages the DLS is looking for to decide on being a charger or what stage of charging to be in. If you are at a mid level charge, it senses a near-fully-charged AGM battery and seems to come up in float mode. In this mode it delivers about 13.4 volts, and only a few amps flow into the battery. This flow tapers off as the battery voltage approaches the float supply voltage and the battery never can charge fully.
Regarding your last question, it really is best to do your charging from the truck via a dc to dc converter. It will compensate for voltage loss from the wire run resistance allowing you to charge at the full intended current, it will limit the charging current to the intended level thus protecting your alternator, it will control charging to only charge when the engine is running, and it will actively control the charging of your battery. Many of us have 30 amp Victron Orion Smart dc to dc chargers. In my opinion you should place this charger next to the camper battery to minimize the length of its output wire run, and use 6 awg wire all the way from the truck battery to the charger. This means you are replacing the exterior wire run on the camper and a few feet inside the camper. This charger and the solar charger should be connected directly to the battery (not the camper fuse panel) via appropriate bus bars and fuses.
I’ll let you ask questions rather than going on and on.
When it turns on, it will come up in either power supply mode or charger mode depending on whether it senses the presence of a battery. The mode and stage of battery charging it thinks it should be in determines what it does with the output voltage.
The positive output of the DLS30 is connected to the supply bus bar of the 12 VDC fuse panel. The positive wire from the truck connector is also connected to this bus bar via the Blue Sea ACR. The battery is connect to this same bus bar via the round silver battery switch. I BELIEVE the solar wires coming from the solar charger, if you have one from the factory, are connected directly to the battery so the solar system can charge the battery even when the silver kill switch is off (can someone with factory solar please confirm this?).
So, even with the battery switch off or the battery removed, the DLS30 can function as a 30 amp 120 ac to 12 vdc converter and power everything in your camper. If an AGM battery is connected and the battery switch is on, the DLS30 will sense the battery and be in charger mode, but your camper loads can steal current from it. That’s Ok.
The inability of the DLS30 to charge a lithium battery effectively stems from the higher lithium battery voltage at partial charge being higher than the voltages the DLS is looking for to decide on being a charger or what stage of charging to be in. If you are at a mid level charge, it senses a near-fully-charged AGM battery and seems to come up in float mode. In this mode it delivers about 13.4 volts, and only a few amps flow into the battery. This flow tapers off as the battery voltage approaches the float supply voltage and the battery never can charge fully.
Regarding your last question, it really is best to do your charging from the truck via a dc to dc converter. It will compensate for voltage loss from the wire run resistance allowing you to charge at the full intended current, it will limit the charging current to the intended level thus protecting your alternator, it will control charging to only charge when the engine is running, and it will actively control the charging of your battery. Many of us have 30 amp Victron Orion Smart dc to dc chargers. In my opinion you should place this charger next to the camper battery to minimize the length of its output wire run, and use 6 awg wire all the way from the truck battery to the charger. This means you are replacing the exterior wire run on the camper and a few feet inside the camper. This charger and the solar charger should be connected directly to the battery (not the camper fuse panel) via appropriate bus bars and fuses.
I’ll let you ask questions rather than going on and on.
Jon R
Senior Member
First question: yes it will. If you wire it in the same way the DLS30 was wired it will function the same way, except it will do a proper job charging your lithium battery.
Second question: You would locate the Orion in the camper very near the camper battery. You would run 6 awg positive and negative wires from the truck engine compartment, through a bed connection of your choice (I used an SB50 with rubber environmental boots), and continue the 6awg wire all the way into the camper and into the Orion input terminals.
The positive wire at the truck end would be connected the truck battery positive terminal or battery fuse block, and be fused at that battery with a 50 to 80 amp fuse (max current to the Orion 12/12-30 is 35 to 40 amps).
The negative at the truck end would connect to the truck battery negative terminal or to a large body ground stud directly connected to the truck battery, pass through the connector at the bed, and go to the negative connection on the Orion, possibly via a negative bus bar (if you use the non-isolated model). If you use the isolated ground version of the Orion your negative wire from the truck would go straight to the negative input on the Orion.
No fuse needed for the positive wire from the truck at the Orion end of the wire because current can’t flow back from the Orion in the case of a short to ground, and even if it could your fuse at the camper battery would protect this wire.
The output positive and negative of the Orion would be connected to the positive and negative of the camper battery, probably via bus bars.
All connections to the camper battery positive should go through an appropriately sized fuse or circuit breaker (fuse sizing is an additional discussion) to prevent wire shorts or equipment failure from overheating your wire. All connections to the camper battery negative should pass through the shunt for your battery monitor. I found having large positive and negative bus bars allowed me to keep the wiring much neater and made it easier to be sure it was installed correctly.
I’ll post a picture of my wiring in my battery compartment showing the bus bars, fuse block, shunt, and chargers. My compartment in the cabinet should be identical to yours, so you can see how I laid mine out.
Second question: You would locate the Orion in the camper very near the camper battery. You would run 6 awg positive and negative wires from the truck engine compartment, through a bed connection of your choice (I used an SB50 with rubber environmental boots), and continue the 6awg wire all the way into the camper and into the Orion input terminals.
The positive wire at the truck end would be connected the truck battery positive terminal or battery fuse block, and be fused at that battery with a 50 to 80 amp fuse (max current to the Orion 12/12-30 is 35 to 40 amps).
The negative at the truck end would connect to the truck battery negative terminal or to a large body ground stud directly connected to the truck battery, pass through the connector at the bed, and go to the negative connection on the Orion, possibly via a negative bus bar (if you use the non-isolated model). If you use the isolated ground version of the Orion your negative wire from the truck would go straight to the negative input on the Orion.
No fuse needed for the positive wire from the truck at the Orion end of the wire because current can’t flow back from the Orion in the case of a short to ground, and even if it could your fuse at the camper battery would protect this wire.
The output positive and negative of the Orion would be connected to the positive and negative of the camper battery, probably via bus bars.
All connections to the camper battery positive should go through an appropriately sized fuse or circuit breaker (fuse sizing is an additional discussion) to prevent wire shorts or equipment failure from overheating your wire. All connections to the camper battery negative should pass through the shunt for your battery monitor. I found having large positive and negative bus bars allowed me to keep the wiring much neater and made it easier to be sure it was installed correctly.
I’ll post a picture of my wiring in my battery compartment showing the bus bars, fuse block, shunt, and chargers. My compartment in the cabinet should be identical to yours, so you can see how I laid mine out.
Jon R
Senior Member
Jon R said:
Thank you! I am confident that I am going to be able to retrofit the camper now without burning it down! I searched for this camper for years and would be quite sad if I messed it up!Jon R said:
I will report back with updates as I get the camper wired and ready!
The truck is going under the knife in the next few days for airbags and suspension upgrades as well as new tires for adventuring!
Spent a couple of hours rewiring the camper to be lithium-ready for when my battery arrives tomorrow. I removed the old AGM charger/converter and wired in this Victron charger that you all suggested and help me figure out! Thank you to all who assisted!
It was not easy, as the fit is very tight in this cabinetry, but I am happy in the end with the result.
It was not easy, as the fit is very tight in this cabinetry, but I am happy in the end with the result.
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