Roof Mounted Solar Panel Vs Honda Generator

I have a 120 watt roof mounted solar panel with two 105 ah (group 31's) batteries for storage. I am planning a future upgrade from my 3-way refrigerator to a 12v dc such as the Waeco CR-1110.

About 99.5% of the time I'm camped alone....so generator noise is not an issue. There are times when the weather or camping conditions are not solar friendy.

I own a Honda 1000 and a Honda 2000 generator. The only time I run the 2000 is when I need to run my air conditioner. Virtually all of the other times I need a generator I rely on the 1000. The 1000 is smaller, lighter and uses much less gas.....and supplies all the power I ever need (with the previously mentioned exception of the AC).

If I could only choose one.....the solar system....the Honda 2000....or the Honda 1000....I'd pick the Honda 1000 since it serves my needs for the majority of time I'm camping. If I pull the cord twice and it doesn't start....I know I need to fill it up....because it's empty. Just change the oil regularly and the Honda's will be happy.

Another nice thing about the Honda generators.....if you get the dc charging cable.....you can charge up a dead truck battery quickly and get out of a jam when your truck battery is dead.

I tend to take extended trips of 4 to 6 weeks. I carry two large propane bottles and both generators. I can stay out a long time before needing to come into town.
 
I've been/am in both camps. My motor home had a 60 watt panel and a 4K Onan gen set. Panel alone would keep the house battery up between trips and during trips while parked a night or two with low power demands. Other than that on with the generator. Of course being an "RV" it had appliances very rare in an FWC and a larger forced air furnace, thus a big gen set. My camper, being less energy demanding device equipped does OK with the same size panel. In reality I need another panel to be truly "solar" sufficient. I can get the roof up with it on and probably could with two, but prefer to reserve my rack space for other stuff. I'm thinking if I up my wattage I'll go the Mr. BC route and plumb an outside plug in and add a panel on a frame I can set on the ground outside and move with the sun.

I have an old 1500 watt generator I'll take for any extended base camping or "work" camping that does not involve being located in proximity to others. It's a pain to haul but so far has only failed me when it runs out of gas. I get and respect the "pukey" comment, but like my comfort in cold weather. If I were in the market for a new generator I'd be hard pressed to turn down a 2000 watt Honda. They're smaller, lighter and quieter than mine. In my location there is only a $100 some dollar difference between the 1000 and 2000 watt Honda's.

One thing else to consider is price. If starting from scratch and needing several 100 watt PV capacity you will probably be approaching the price range of a good generator.

I'll close by saying all the information offered I've read thus far in this threat is "Spot On" in my experience. Good luck in your decision.
 
Pro generator here. Boondocked in 25 degrees below zero, furnace 24/7, snowing, you're going to freeze to death trying to use solar!!!! Spent 4 days and only had to run the genny 2 hours a day. Only 1 Group 31


Fair enough.....to a point. I did two weeks in Wyoming in temps like that, dressed right and kept the camper at a manageable 38 degrees. In 1940 Eddie Bauer invented the goods to do more than just survive..;-)

By keeping my camper cooler in extreme cold, we stay acclimated and the camera gear does not have to be kept in the thaw bags as long when preventing sub zero born condensation.

Solar is not perfect, but there are some things I just won't use unless someone's life depends on it, a generator is one of them. I have cleared over 3 inches of snow off of the roof three times this week, I certainly don't mind it, I love the Winter.
 
Thanks for the posts!

Kodachrome,

How often do you camp in overcast or covered conditions, and have you experienced any problems with your solar?


Depends on if I am home in Colorado or not and what time of year. The light on both North East and North West coasts from October to April can be pretty lo-fi, hence my beefing up both the batteries and solar. My system is a tad complex, we like to be able to stay in one place for up to 10 days.

Now I will admit, some of those smaller generators are pretty quiet and don't seem to stink that much, but I have no idea where on earth I would put such a thing.
 
I like my solar system and it works just fine at times.....but the problem with solar is you can't always depend on consistant sunshine.

Even in the Arizona desert (I grew up in AZ...spent 30 years there) the sun doesn't always cooperate. My last trip to Arizona two years ago.....I had some of the worst weather ever. It rained for 5 days straight and culmunated in a huge snow storm. I have the pictures of the frozen mountain to prove it. Solar definately didn't cut it then.

Same thing in New Mexico. I made a 21 day trip there and it rained for 18 of those days. YMMV.
 
I like my solar system and it works just fine at times.....but the problem with solar is you can't always depend on consistant sunshine.

Even in the Arizona desert (I grew up in AZ...spent 30 years there) the sun doesn't always cooperate. My last trip to Arizona two years ago.....I had some of the worst weather ever. It rained for 5 days straight and culmunated in a huge snow storm. I have the pictures of the frozen mountain to prove it. Solar definately didn't cut it then.

Same thing in New Mexico. I made a 21 day trip there and it rained for 18 of those days. YMMV.


But that is the thing of it right there, you learn the limits of your system and work within those limits. I know often what these campers provide is comfort features but I think those expectations come on a sliding scale for me. I use approaches like LED lights, only running the heater right before I get up, once an hour while up and then right before bed, use window inserts made out of reflectix insulation, etc. I did all kinds of cold weather mods as soon as I got the camper knowing I would often be sitting it out in ice storms, snow, sub zero, etc. I even did the LED light mod while Marty was getting my truck ready to have the camper. You just learn these things in actual use, like if you are in extreme cold and really need to go in survival mode, you leave the top down and gain no less than a 40% increase in heat retention efficiency depending on if you have the artic pak or not. I have even installed a simple pee tube that is coiled up behind the left rear turnbuckle access port that I "flush" with a small amount of water. It sends the liquid outside onto the ground without any mess. And if that is frozen, then I use a pee bottle much like those on high altitude climbs do, keeping from needing to go outside into the cold or to let cold in. My wife and I now have this two person sleeping bag in the camper for when we are both out in the rig, things like this make all the difference in the cold when managing a solar system in less than solar conditions...

http://m.rei.com/mt/www.rei.com/product/796072/big-agnes-cabin-creek-15-sleeping-bag-double

Solar works for me in all cases because I set my expectations of what it can do to be commensurate to the conditions I am in. I realize people have different expectations of what they want these campers to provide for them in the way of comfort, so my needs may not cut it for others.
 
... but I have no idea where on earth I would put such a thing.


:D You have the most "stuff" on a camper/truck rig than most here. I suspect that if you got the itch you would find a way and then the rest of us will see the pics and think, "that is soooo cool. Why didn't I think of that."

But you need a catalytic heater so you can heat the camper proper like and not use up your charge. I'm an ice fisherman and spend all day out in the wind and cold (and love it really) but to come back to a "home" that is 38? No. ... just say'n.

And I have an argo that I trail ride in the same mountains in the same winter in the same state as you. 38 degree camper? No.

I wear merino wool against the skin, wool middle layers and an outer layer that both insulates and floats. I know how to layer. 38 degree camper? No. I don't care what Eddie Bauer invented in 1940. (An interesting reference to technologies past by the way)

Live in a 38 degree camper or run a semi trailer sized generator sipping locomotive quantities of high grade gasoline? I'll run the generator. (of course I probably wouldn't go, it's just a visual...)

If you don't like the idea of a Wave or Buddy, get the PlatCat - it exhausts to the outside for a tiny fraction of the electron potential cost and has a thermostat. You need it. 38 degrees... Sure, it's the high end for the recommended refrigerator temp at your local eatery.

Solar or Gen?

If you AC or use a toaster a lot (or any device that use a lot of resistance heating) then you must use a generator (or a farm of PV panels bigger than your truck...) The AC runs the most just when you want to be charging the most and will probably out compete the sun. The devices just eat amps.

If you camp in the clouds or dark places or just don't want to dig out the panel from the snow or watch blueray on the big screen with the PS3 then you probably need a generator.

Otherwise, there are ways and devices to make your electrical needs very small so that you are in the range of PV. Led lights, efficient compressor fridge, catalytic heater and you are pretty golden.

For the record, I don't care how you camp. If you like the PS3 along and munch toast while watching movies all day then that is fine with me. I've done it myself and may still. (But personally, only in certain places where I feel I won't bother my neighbors.) In general, the small modern generators don't make enough noise or fumes to bother me all that much and I've found most people with them are far more aware of their impact on their neighbors than the average camping dog owner.

For me, the idea of always ready and easy setup leans me towards the simple PV setup for the camper in the truck. It isn't the only camper that I have. I may add AC down the road (I can do cold weather but hot weather just is not in me...:)) and then I will size that so that it will run on the EU2000i that I already own.

Get a small generator so that you can lock it inside the truck or camper. I have had 2 larger/cheaper generators stolen right out of the truck. Chains cut and all. At meal stops!? [Edit: this last bit here is meant for "If you get a generator..."]
 
Correct me if I am wrong. All this talk and expense whether it be solar or gen or both has to do mainly with the Compressor fridge. This compressor fridge is turning out to be more expensive that than my full size at home when you factor in the power source needed to keep batteries charged!

Should I be able to run everything (even the furnace) in winter weather with just two batteries if I nixed the fridge?

I recall reading a post that stuck with me. It was from a sailor that had sailed the world. He advised to nix the fridge and life would be so much easier. Yup, canned food and drink warm beer because fridges caused so many problems.
 
John, when I say 38 degrees interior temp I should note that the outside temp would have to be lower than -20 for that baseline. Believe me, when I am dressed right and I come in the camper after being in cold like that, I start to sweat at 38 degrees, I am built like that. Now my wife on the other hand, that is another story, lol!

If it is 20 degrees above out, you can be darn good and sure the inside of my camper is at least 55 degrees. It's just that once these soft sided pop ups get in temps below zero, they just don't hold room temperature heat all that well, even with the insulation.

Like I said, Winter comfort is on a sliding scale for me....:)
 
Don't nix the fridge, the Waeco CR series or Engel ones don't draw nearly the amps as your heater's blower motor will. They are SO worth it in my opinion and won't have to work as hard in the Winter anyway. Just make sure you get FWC to use either foam board insulaltion covered in foil or tons of reflectix to fill the gaps. I did the later and the only thing exposed on the fridge is the rear upper part with the fan and compressor.

In the Winter, the fridge will be more efficient and in the summer you will run the heater less to offset it.

This is a good thread for this time of year though, different levels of power for those who want to be spoiled, comfortable or just survive...
 
This is great stuff guys! My leaves will never get picked up at this rate. I really appreciate all the input it is a huge help! Keep the posts coming please
 
Correct me if I am wrong. All this talk and expense whether it be solar or gen or both has to do mainly with the Compressor fridge. This compressor fridge is turning out to be more expensive that than my full size at home when you factor in the power source needed to keep batteries charged!

Should I be able to run everything (even the furnace) in winter weather with just two batteries if I nixed the fridge?

I recall reading a post that stuck with me. It was from a sailor that had sailed the world. He advised to nix the fridge and life would be so much easier. Yup, canned food and drink warm beer because fridges caused so many problems.


Yep, the fridge is a luxury. For that matter, so's electricity. Actually, so's camping, when you think about it...
 
... I am built like that.

Oh, I relate.
cool.gif


Now my wife on the other hand, that is another story, lol!

Stil relate'n...
wink.gif


... the inside of my camper is at least 55 degrees.

Now we're talk'n. That's "wear a sweater" temps. Hit 63 and short sleeve shirt with merino wool skull cap. Good and comfortable. Even barefoot despite snow on the floor, something my wife doesn't get... (I really really hate wet socks)
 
Correct me if I am wrong. All this talk and expense whether it be solar or gen or both has to do mainly with the Compressor fridge. This compressor fridge is turning out to be more expensive that than my full size at home when you factor in the power source needed to keep batteries charged!


Mainly depends on how you're camping. Assuming you don't run other power hungry stuff then for 2-3day trips a single good sized deep cycle will likely handle things. 7 day trip then a dual battery set. Thus generally most folks won't require power sources. After 7 days you'd want to start thinking about recharge options (solar, generator, running the truck, etc.) The perk on solar is IF you have sun then it'll either recharge the batteries continually or at least limit the overall draw down if it's not quite matching up. So on regular trips you'll probably hardly cycle your batteries at all (longer life then too!).

My stance for most folks that aren't doing multiweek trips is to size the battery bank for what you need it to do w/o outside input. Then if you add solar on you'll only be improving your situation by keeping those batteries closer to full, if not totally full. However when the sun goes away for days during foul weather you're still good to go with your properly sized battery bank.

I'm running 210ah of battery, at this point in my life I'm never going to be out longer than a week (unfortunately), I have zero concerns about running my ARB fridge, LED lighting, and fantastic fans over that period of normal use on battery alone. However I just ordered up 100watt panel for the reasons stated above and because they're on sale so I got a panel & controller shipped for under $200. Hard to complain about that in my mind, I'll have a little more cost for mounting/wiring supplies when that part factors in but still quite tolerable in my book.
 
Should I be able to run everything (even the furnace) in winter weather with just two batteries if I nixed the fridge?

No. uh.. Yes. Wait, for how long? Get a catalytic heater and a candle for light then the answer is yes. Even if the two batteries are totally dead. You know, like tent camping.

In the winter the value of the fridge is to keep the food from freezing. You can get all the refrigeration you need with a cooler on the seat of the truck.

Don't forget that you have a means of battery charging sitting under the camper should you need it. I've had to use the truck with my 5ver because of circumstance. I wouldn't design it as the source of battery charging but it is there as a ready backup.

I recall reading a post that stuck with me.


I have seen this post as well and frankly it describes how I use my truck camper mostly, but I don't have a fridge. If I were buying a new one and deciding whether to have a fridge or not I would certainly have one. I don't know which type I would choose as the propane option of the 3way has served me well over the years - even making ice in 100+ degree weather - and it doesn't use any electricity in that mode.

Right now, I use cans of stuff and a cooler.
 
Should I be able to run everything (even the furnace) in winter weather with just two batteries if I nixed the fridge?



Ramblin' you should be fine. We have one group 31 battery and NO solar. I don't use generators. We've converted most lighting to LED and use a wave. We do three to four day trips and are always in the green zone on the monitor. Our fridge is 3way, so I'm running propane there but I understand the compressor types are very efficient.
 
Great points!

Why is it FWC is charging so much for their Solar Option ($995.00). It sounds as though there is some pretty great deals out there. I appreciate that they are doing the instal but is 995.00 worth it? Does the instal, wiring, and panel warrant that kind of expense?
 
It's funny ... as I ponder the option list, I have come to realize that with the exception of my house, this single purchase will be the largest in my modest 38yrs of life.
 
With a little research you can put together a solar system cheaper than FWC charges. If you are not handy at wiring then you should just get the factory installed system. I like the solar system as it is handy under the right conditions. The Waeco DC refrigerator should not impact my electrical needs very much at all and I will enjoy having a refrigerator that is a "set it and forget it" type of deal. Having refrigeration for food and drinks is a luxury...but it is one that I feel is important to me.

I don't like it when the outside temperature is -20 degees, I don't pee in bottles, I don't wear more clothes than the Pillsbury Dough Boy and endure a 32 degree temperature on the inside of my camper with the top down in stealth mode to save heat. I wouldn't be a camper if those were the parameters. Sorry....just not a cold weather guy I guess. I bought my camper to have a warm, dry, compfortable place to sleep and prepare food on extended trips in remote beautiful places.

When conditions are ideal....I get by just fine with the solar system alone. When conditons warrant...I crank up my trusty Honda 1000 and life is good. I can barely hear it, never smell it.....and it just always works. I have the Honda 2000 as a back up because my trips are generally long ones and running a generator to recharge batteries is much more efficient than running my trucks motor.

Bottom line is everyone will have different definitions of what camping is to them. Some folks only make short trips and alternate battery charging systems don't come into play. It is only when you want to have extended trips and not be at the mercy of Mother Nature that you need to consider other means to keep those batteries charged.

Everyone has different requirements as to level of comfort while camping...but one thing seems to be a common thread....we all love to get out there in remote places and enjoy nature and our campers allow us to do so. That is the reason that we buy these campers in the first place.
 
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