Roof Mounted Solar Panel Vs Honda Generator

Great points!

Why is it FWC is charging so much for their Solar Option ($995.00). It sounds as though there is some pretty great deals out there. I appreciate that they are doing the instal but is 995.00 worth it? Does the instal, wiring, and panel warrant that kind of expense?


Manufacturers in general tend to be a little heavy handed on the "optional" equipment charges in my mind (they are a buisness though so it's part of the game). One can often do certain options at home for much cheaper if one chooses to. Keep in mind FWC is working with their regular suppliers and can't price according to the sales folks like us can act on but I have no idea why a solar setup would run $995 unless you're getting a large panel and very nice controller (but it looks like FWC is doing 85watt and I'd bet they're using a PWM controller but I could be wrong there). In the case of solar I'd make sure the wires from the roof was preinstalled but likely opt to install my own panel.

As I mentioned there are some good sales on panels right now such as 100watt for $135 which is why I finally jumped, they normally aren't that cheap. But right now you could get two panels and a nicer sunsaver MPPT controller for 2*135+223 = 493 (shipping and wiring/mounting costs not included) if you really wanted to go for broke. I felt a 100watt panel with a sunsaver 10amp PWM controller would be fine for my needs and was able to get that for under $200. Non-sale pricing the panel would be closer to $200 (still much more palatable in pricing though ;))
 
I think one of the most fun parts about these campers are the fact that they have limits in terms of size and scope of operation. So I imagine I can speak for nearly everyone when I say that getting the most out of them in terms of how we lay them out and what we want them to do is an ongoing learning process.

I relish in the days when the temps are warm enough to have all the windows open, throw some steaks on the small barbecue we sometimes carry. But, like Jack Dykinga puts out there, I have to get the shot and often the best shot is in the transition of the worst weather, cold included. I don't look forward to survival mode, but I love that everything is in place for it to be there.

In terms of pricing out solar, one thing you have to strongly consider is that the first place you will want to put a panel is on the roof. So think about he biggest one you might want to go with because you will be limited by what gauge wire they pre-wire the roof with. You can't go back and change your mind, it would cost a small fortune to swap it out.

I think 120-135 watts is the sweet spot for a roof mount. Most of the 85 watt panels listed are at 16-18 pounds, 26 x 40'ish. So if weight is a concern, pony up for that rad 100 watt panel I have that weighs less than an 85 and is roughly the same size. Or, go with a decent 135 watt powerhouse like I did that weighs 26 pounds and is 26" x 64" and do gas shock roof lifters. There are a ton of panels out there that are less than 65" long so the real limits in roof mounting are weight and width. If you put a 120-135 watt on the roof and do the length across the width of the camper, it make it a bit easier to clear snow and have room for fans, racks, etc. Take a look at the top of my camper too in that blog, I have a light piece of wood on the back corner so I can stand on it for photos and to have a place to climb up to in order to clear the middle of the panel, clean the dirt off in Summer, etc.

Just remember, if you only have it pre-wired for solar now and want to put the panel of your choice on later, you will be somewhat limited by what gauge wire they have installed wich is usually multi-strand 14 gauge auto wire, good for up to 100 watts at that distance. Find out what length they put in, decide if you want a bigger panel like a 120-135 watt and then use the wire gauge calculator to figure your gauge:

http://www.freesunpower.com/wire_calc.php

If I were you, I would just find a good price on a 135 watt 12 volt panel and talk to FWC about the cost offset. Most of the work is in the wiring on the roof and I don't think they actually charge much for that. Make sure to get a good MPPT controller too like a Morningstar or Blue Sky, it makes a difference in how well those panels feed the battery and keep the goodies running.
 
Pods8, how much that sale priced 100 watt weigh and what are the dimensions? I am always on the lookout for the guys at ATC...

Solar will most likely become a second career for me as I am working on two designs that I am going to end up seeking patents for. I figure in 10-20 years time, photography might be a game I no longer want to play in terms of business so why not try a new career.

Let me just say one of the designs might be a total game changer for pop-up camper solar...:)
 
What about getting the Solar outlet installed and purchasing one of the portable Solar panels which hopefully I could position in direct sunlight, put on the roof where ever. Is this a possibility? I have no experience with this stuff.

I am wondering if this would give me the best of both worlds. I could take it for the longer cold trips, Position it out of the shade and tree cover, leave it at home for the shorter trips when it may not be requiried.
 
What about getting the Solar outlet installed and purchasing one of the portable Solar panels which hopefully I could position in direct sunlight, put on the roof where ever. Is this a possibility? I have no experience with this stuff.

I am wondering if this would give me the best of both worlds. I could take it for the longer cold trips, Position it out of the shade and tree cover, leave it at home for the shorter trips when it may not be requiried.


I find that having too much "stuff" to pack and unpack to set up or break camp is a pain. Keep those things to a minimum.

A remote solar panel is going to be more efficient since you can point it right at the sun....but I chose to just slap it on the roof and forget about it. I found a 120 watt panel that only weighs 20 lbs.
 
Make sure to get a good MPPT controller too like a Morningstar or Blue Sky, it makes a difference in how well those panels feed the battery and keep the goodies running.


There are arguments on solar sites of how much use MPPT is for smaller panels and whether you'll truly develop the gains verse PWM or not. Personally after doing some reading I decided a morning start sunsaver PWM would be sufficient for me when using a 100watt panel at 1/5th the price of the MPPT sunsaver. I could add another 100watt panel to the mix and still be under the cost (but would have the extra roof weight but since my new campers roof is powered that would be less of a concern to me).

Pods8, how much that sale priced 100 watt weigh and what are the dimensions? I am always on the lookout for the guys at ATC...


25# - ~26"x44", I posted all the links in this thread: http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/5302/
 
Ah, that is a big 100 watt panel, the one I linked to is 21" x 40" and under 15 pounds, killer for rooftop stuff.

To the OP, seriously take a look at what I did in terms of both the roof mount 135 watt and stow away 100 watt, all the links are there:

http://kodachromeproject.com/blog/
 
What about getting the Solar outlet installed...


In my camper it would be very easy to put the charger next to the battery and run a second cord right out the cord port where the current converter cord exits. Then it is a matter of choosing which cord to pull out. Use a plug that matches something at the panel but doesn't match anything else (particularly any AC type socket). Then your setup/takedown is no worse than a generator.

Now this is in edit: Wow, I might even consider doing this. Hitting up the same sale Pods did. Hmm...
 
Leadsled, got a link to that 135 watt for the OP, it sounds perfect at 20 pounds...


Here's a link to the thread:
http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4014/



Here's a link to the panel. HOLY COW....IT'S ON SALE FROM $600 DOWN TO $210!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.solarblvd.com/p2274/Solar-Cynergy-120-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel/product_info.html?osCsid=40c177eddf488e4ab609d61b746261be

Edited: my bad....the panel is a 120....not a 135 as previously mentioned. I edited my previous posts to reflect the modified post.
 
Ah, that is a big 100 watt panel, the one I linked to is 21" x 40" and under 15 pounds, killer for rooftop stuff.

To the OP, seriously take a look at what I did in terms of both the roof mount 135 watt and stow away 100 watt, all the links are there:

http://kodachromeproject.com/blog/


The only way to get weight down is reducing the framing and protective cover, possibly the backing thickness of the solar cells themselves. I would tend to think in a vibration prone installation that some extra thickness in these zones wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Is the panel I linked overkill I don't know. However my new camper's roof is powered, not a manual lift, so frankly the 10lb difference for a panel at close to 2.5times as expensive is not really a decision maker in my mind. On a FWC I'd say getting some gas shocks installed would also be cheaper.
 
I be thinking you now need a motor home. Keep it simple. Get the solar first, see how you make out, you can add a gen later.

It comes down to what you are taking camping. Amp hours. The more and bigger the item, the bigger the power supply needed.

I have gone away with all the big items, that is why I purchased a FWC. Its one of the lightest units out there and I wanted to keep it that way.

For sure you need to know the amp draw of the items in the camper so you can get the proper size panel.

Good luck

ps. the panels do not need to be roof mounted.
 
Here's a link to the panel. HOLY COW....IT'S ON SALE FROM $600 DOWN TO $210!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.solarblvd.com/p2274/Solar-Cynergy-120-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel/product_info.html?osCsid=40c177eddf488e4ab609d61b746261be


OK, Ramblinman, order that panel and the following controller & remote meter.

Then have Solar BLVD. ship it directly to FWC, have Stan install TWO Sears Die hard Group 31 batteries in a slick battery box and you are Golden bro!

120 is a great start and you can always buy that dinky 100 watt I have and add it in as a second portable panel later. But seriously, for that price to power to weight ratio, you are getting a great start to solar and should be more than fine with a pair of Sears beasts. With that you are at $507 pre-shipping for solar, batteries not included, so see if FWC can work with you on the install price, you might come out ahead...
 
The only way to get weight down is reducing the framing and protective cover, possibly the backing thickness of the solar cells themselves. I would tend to think in a vibration prone installation that some extra thickness in these zones wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Is the panel I linked overkill I don't know. However my new camper's roof is powered, not a manual lift, so frankly the 10lb difference for a panel at close to 2.5times as expensive is not really a decision maker in my mind. On a FWC I'd say getting some gas shocks installed would also be cheaper.


In the case of the roof, maybe not so much if you don't have much else up there, but for where I have it, the size and weight make a big difference, especially when I take it out of the slide and move it around.
 
OK, Ramblinman, order that panel and the following controller & remote meter.


That is my exact solar set up. Same panel, controller, remote meter and the same two batteries. The only thing different is I also installed the remote battery temperature sensor since my batteries and controller are not in the same location.
 
That is my exact solar set up. Same panel, controller, remote meter and the same two batteries. The only thing different is I also installed the remote battery temperature sensor since my batteries and controller are not in the same location.


I did the same, it works good, in fact, that system is brilliant in watching amp hours loaded to the batteries, etc, I love it. Pony up if you can afford it as your batteries will most likely be like ours, separate from the controller by at least several feet.
 
Fair enough.....to a point. I did two weeks in Wyoming in temps like that, dressed right and kept the camper at a manageable 38 degrees. In 1940 Eddie Bauer invented the goods to do more than just survive..;-)

By keeping my camper cooler in extreme cold, we stay acclimated and the camera gear does not have to be kept in the thaw bags as long when preventing sub zero born condensation.

Solar is not perfect, but there are some things I just won't use unless someone's life depends on it, a generator is one of them. I have cleared over 3 inches of snow off of the roof three times this week, I certainly don't mind it, I love the Winter.



LMAO 38 degrees!!!! Survival mode maybe. Fun mode NOT!!!!


You obviously don't have a sled or do any extreme riding. You get back and your dripping wet from sweat. Even in my uninsulated Klim gear. When I get back I peel off the wet clothes in 60-70 degree temps, sit around in my skivvies drinking ice cold beer and Jack. Maybe watch a movie. By morning my boots, gloves and gear are nice and warm and dry, ready for another day.

Solar is just another thing on the roof for tree limbs to drag off. That will never happen with my Honda!!! I am also about to get my 2nd Honda 2000 called the Companion. Wired together the twin 2000's put out a 30 amp service. Hello AC!!!!! :p
 
How did you wire in your aux 100 watt panel? Series? Parallel?


I did series I think...?....

Either way I simply wired it to the same terminal posts as the main panel, on a separate set of wires. I unplug the 100 watt panel from the bulked when I am not using it to prevent voltage leak back which only amounts to .5 volts.
 
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