Rust? Screws? FWC Hawks?

[inciter]

Date: 2018

I've been seeing YouTube videos and customer photos of Rusty screws and washers on Hawks?

They cannot be covered up fact is fact customers are reporting screws and washers rusting before a years time, Has the Factory taken steps to this? Or is it still taking place...

Is it electrolysis ? I have an F250 2017 that is Aluminium now should I maybe have asked this before I put 14 grand down?

Yikes

 

[longhorn1]

Date: 2018

I've been seeing YouTube videos and customer photos of Rusty screws and washers on Hawks?

They cannot be covered up fact is fact customers are reporting screws and washers rusting before a years time, Has the Factory taken steps to this? Or is it still taking place...

Is it electrolysis ? I have an F250 2017 that is Aluminium now should I maybe have asked this before I put 14 grand down?

Yikes

It appears to be a reaction of 2 different metals. I noticed it when I pulled a marker light to re-caulk a suspected leak. I applied rust paint to the screws as a coating. Galvanized screws into aluminum frame. The rust was at the contact point with the aluminum frame. I'm going to replace them with stainless steel screws. Not sure why they still use galvanized. Not sure what you are referring to washers. We spend time at the coast and galvanized will rust. I haven't seen this as something to get overly concerned about. There was a grounding issue that caused the aluminum to corrode on someone's camper, but that was a single time incident. jd

 

[inciter]

Copper, carbon steel and even stainless steel can here initiate galvanic corrosion. Problems can also occur where the metallic combination is galvanized steel and aluminium. The zinc coating of the galvanized steel will, at first, prevent the aluminium being attacked.

So Electrolysis was the incorrect terminology, its galvanic corrosion they are experiencing I guess. I've seen this before in trailers at screw points. They use to use and still do I be leave a Butyline washer with putty before the screw and sub straight.

I' have to look at the MFG to see if they use this protective approach.

 

[badtoytrd]

I pulled the trim off my Fleet this spring because it looked like the aluminum siding was corroding and everywhere there was a staple I had a hole in the siding. I pulled all of the siding and the steel staples, ordered new trim from FWC and am reinstalling with butyl tape under the trim to seal out water. I am also going to run a bead of 3m 4000 along the edges of the trim to seal even more securely. All screws are being replaced with super corrosion resistant stainless from McMaster.

 

[longhorn1]

Copper, carbon steel and even stainless steel can here initiate galvanic corrosion. Problems can also occur where the metallic combination is galvanized steel and aluminium. The zinc coating of the galvanized steel will, at first, prevent the aluminium being attacked.

So Electrolysis was the incorrect terminology, its galvanic corrosion they are experiencing I guess. I've seen this before in trailers at screw points. They use to use and still do I be leave a Butyline washer with putty before the screw and sub straight.

I' have to look at the MFG to see if they use this protective approach.

I've been on WTW since 2012 and there hasn't been a major concern or write-up that has gone off the charts on the screws, just the guy with the second hand camper and the corroding, which like I said was about a grounding issue. jd

 

[badtoytrd]

I've been on WTW since 2012 and there hasn't been a major concern or write-up that has gone off the charts on the screws, just the guy with the second hand camper and the corroding, which like I said was about a grounding issue. jd

Hahaha, wait until you see mine. I will make a post once it is back together. It was mainly the previous owner's fault for running the camper on the truck through the winter on the east coast and not washing it off but the foam tape that FWC used didn't help the situation. I wish they would have used a butyl tape instead to protect against moisture but it allowed me to learn quite a bit about how the camper is put together.

 

[longhorn1]

Hahaha, wait until you see mine. I will make a post once it is back together. It was mainly the previous owner's fault for running the camper on the truck through the winter on the east coast and not washing it off but the foam tape that FWC used didn't help the situation. I wish they would have used a butyl tape instead to protect against moisture but it allowed me to learn quite a bit about how the camper is put together.

Post with lots of pictures. I do remember your initial post, at least I thought so, my mind can play tricks.[emoji41]

 

[cuervo]

2017 FWC Swift.
Yeah, all the screws holding the side window are rusted... 3 months in my environment. Coastal sea breezes, so I'm not surprised, just disappointed in some of the corners being cut with production. Replacing them all with stainless screws.
As soon as the summer dry season arrives and things dry out I'm going to have to glue and screw the rear laminations, a stack of three 3/4 inch plywood boards stuck together to form the rear beam has spread apart. Not impressed with the stuff, it has been used extensively in the camper and it's pretty cheap. Definitely not all weather plywood.

 

[ntsqd]

The issue is one of the plating on the hardware. It keeps getting thinner and thinner unless you're buying mil-spec hardware. I don't know if this is economically driven or environmentally driven, or both. I suspect that with few low grade fasteners being still made in the US that it is mostly economic. Thinner plating takes less time in the same environ to get thru and start rusting the steel underneath.

..........All screws are being replaced with super corrosion resistant stainless from McMaster.

Unless you're buying 316SST fasteners and they have been passivated you're actually making things worse. Look up a Galvanic Potential chart on the net. Note where Stainless is relative to Aluminum. Then look at where Zinc is relative to Aluminum. the further apart any two metals are, the greater their galvanic corrosion potential. The closer they are, the less corrosion potential.

 

[longhorn1]

2017 FWC Swift.
Yeah, all the screws holding the side window are rusted... 3 months in my environment. Coastal sea breezes, so I'm not surprised, just disappointed in some of the corners being cut with production. Replacing them all with stainless screws.
As soon as the summer dry season arrives and things dry out I'm going to have to glue and screw the rear laminations, a stack of three 3/4 inch plywood boards stuck together to form the rear beam has spread apart. Not impressed with the stuff, it has been used extensively in the camper and it's pretty cheap. Definitely not all weather plywood.

What is the rear beam you mentioned, the runners added on the bottom of the camper?

 

[SunMan]

This has been somewhat of an issue for me living at the beach. I sourced a tub of white painted screws a number of years ago that I use to replace rusted screws from time to time, they last quite well so its not too much trouble to replace some screws every two or three years. TT replaced all of his with stainless and has had great success, initial concerns about electrolysis (or galvanic corrosion?) proved false.

 

[cuervo]

What is the rear beam you mentioned, the runners added on the bottom of the camper?

Yes, they run crosswise (port to starboard) and are what the camper sits on in the bed.

 

[JaSAn]

1977 Grandby; slotted hex head screws around the window and door frames have surface rust and staining of the aluminum around the screw heads, but show no evidence of galvanic corrosion. Screws I have checked draw up tight.

I agree that IF galvanic corrosion is a problem stainless screws could make it worse.

jim

 

[Roaming_Eagle]

2008 Eagle switched to stainless screws, previous owner stored it a block from the ocean in Socal. Caused pitting and holes in the roof along with paint pealing off. My .02 is to get the highest quality stainless you can find and a tube of 3m 4000.

 

[rando]

Stainless steel screws are not the right solution, particularly in a marine environment! You want to use heavily galvanized carbon steel screws. The stainless steel screws themselves will look fine - but they will induce corrosion in the alumunium siding and frame of the camper: https://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=89

Screws are easy to replace, the camper frame is not, so you are much better off to use ultra corrosion resistant steel screws:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#tapping-screws/=1cgt2sc

 

[badtoytrd]

From what I understand there needs to be an electrolyte introduced to have corrosion. If the area is sealed with butyl tape and 4000 the electrolyte should be sealed out. Is that correct Rando?

 

[rando]

Correct - electrolysis needs an electrolyte, so if the area is sealed from moisture, there shouldn't be an issue. I live in a dry salt free part of the country, and have not experienced any corrosion between dissimilar metals.

 

[JaSAn]

From what I understand there needs to be an electrolyte introduced to have corrosion. If the area is sealed with butyl tape and 4000 the electrolyte should be sealed out. Is that correct Rando?

Corrosion is the conversion of a refined metal into a more stable form, usually an oxide, hydroxide or sulfide. Galvanic corrosion is a specific type of corrosion when two dissimilar metals are present. Five things have to happen for galvanic corrosion:

1. dissimilar metals; a greater difference in anodic potential is worse.
2. the metals must be in electrical contact.
3. at least one of the metals must oxidize.
4. moisture must mix with the oxidizing salts to create an electrolyte.
5. there must be a return electrical path (closed circuit).

If you eliminate any one of the five galvanic corrosion will not happen. Designers try to limit the anodic potential difference to 0.25V for outdoor environments because the other four are difficult to eliminate over time. Unfortunately for us aluminum is the anode with most other metals and thus the one that is consumed.

jim

 

[ntsqd]

I used to work in designing sub-sea electrical connectors used on ocean submersibles, manned and unmanned. Our standard metal call-out was 316 Stainless Steel (we used much more exotic metals in certain cases). Our standard post machining process was to send them out for passivation. Without the passivation 316 Stainless, one of the better corrosion resistant alloys commonly available, would rust in a marine environment. Doesn't matter if it is high quality or low quality.

https://www.besttechnologyinc.com/passivation-systems/what-is-passivation/

Rare that fasteners are passivated unless that is spec'd by the buyer. Strongly doubt it ever happens to chandlery shelf grade hardware. Normal SS fasteners are not 316, they are 18-8, which is roughly 302 or 304 SST. These alloys are not as corrosion resistant as 316 is. Can fairly easily buy 316 fasteners, but they're at a premium price, so you're not getting 316 in standard SS fasteners unless someone goofed.

 

[badtoytrd]

I said that I would post some pics of my Fleet's corrosion and the repair. I believe this was caused by the previous owner leaving the camper on during the winter and salty roads. I pulled all of the trim off, cleaned it up, painted it with zinc paint and reinstalled the trim with butyl tape and 3M 4000 to seal out moisture. All screws were replaced with zinc.