Soaked Roof Pack/Headliner!?!

[jsonptrs]

Greetings all. Been away from the forum for a while. Since I last posted details of my Grandby rebuild I have finished the interior and ended up having the guys at All-Terrain Campers replace my sideliner/softsides and lift panels as time had run out and I don't know how to sew. I discussed with them the problem I had and my suspicion of a roof leak in the drivers front corner. A cursory inspection of the roof followed and It was deemed to be in good shape. The source of the water was thought to be a gap or lack of sealant behind the metal trim that surrounds the roof of our campers. The metal trim was removed, cleaned, and re-installed during the replacement of the liner hopefully fixing the problem. Unfortunately, it didn't.

Fast forward a couple months (I had the work done in May 2010) and our first heavy rain storm in Reno showed more water coming in the drivers front corner. Crap. For the record the camper was sitting still and not being driven during that time. I climbed up on the roof, removed the front roof rack, cleaned where all the fasteners were and put in new screws/neoprene washers sealed with silicone. I didn't touch anything past the overhead bunk portion of the camper as water was always pooling in the drivers front corner. Next rain storm and same result - water in the drivers front corner of the overhead bunk. Double crap. I start to get irritated because I don't want the water to ruin my new lift panels and rot my cushion. Unfortunately the timing of this is bad because I have my kitchen torn apart and don't have time to mess with the camper. I stretched a tarp over the front third of the camper and let it sit.

Periodically I would go into the camper and check things out. All appeared dry. Feeling okay about things, figure I can put off whatever further repair I have to do until I have more time. Wrong. We had some snow in Reno, was away from town for a week or so and came back to find the headliner DRIPPING with water and the roof weighing about twice as much as normal. Water appears to have saturated the entire center bays of the headliner/roof. The headliner is now loose and sagging, clearly full of water. I don't know if I should pull the headliner to dry it out? Put a heater and fan in there to try to dry it? Any experience replacing the liner without taking the roof off? I was thinking about pulling it off, finding and fixing the leak, then replacing the headliner with FRP screwed to the perimeter flange that appears to surround the roof of the camper. The problem with that being the front and back where it would have to go under the lift panel hinge - don't really want to mess with that.

Any advice? And sorry for the long post....

 

[Desert Rancher]

To start with, I would raise the roof if you can. Pull the cushions out. Get as many towels in there as needed to soak up any dripping water.

Put SEVERAL fans in there. Plus a heater if possible. Moving a lot of air will do more to dry it and prevent mildew.

Cover the whole thing with a tarp until you can work on it. But get it dried out for now.

****A reminder for all, after a good rain like we have been getting-pop the top and air it out! Check the corners for any dampness. Just say no to mildew....

 

[jsonptrs]

Thanks for the reply. I've got a heater and fan running in there now. It is supposed to be very cold for the next few days so whatever is in there is likely to freeze. Now I suppose I need to get on the roof and reseal everything I can.

 

[n0izh]

Good Morning,
I know you mentioned you thought the leak was in the front corner...don't automatically assume that's where the leak actually is. That may just be where the water comes out. I had a pesky leak on the passenger side front above the bed when we first got the camper. I sealed and resealed things several time up above but still had the leak. When I made the decision to pull up every roof screw and reseal them I noticed a small opening in the seal around the roof hatch where water could get in. The way I park the truck the front ends up a bit lower than the back. Water was entering at the vent and traveling along the aluminum frame tubing and exiting out the front. We haven't had the problem since we sealed the vent. Think like a water drop and look further up hill from the leak and see if anything catches your attention. Good luck!!! And what you are doing with the heater will do the trick. Just open the roof vent a bit, and also a turnbuckle hole to provide some positive air flow up and out. It took mine just a day to recover from the soaked ceiling.

John

 

[jsonptrs]

Glad to hear it only takes a day or so to dry out. I just checked on things, running a space heater and a fan on one cord appears to me too much so I pulled another cord in there. If I hit the headliner with the backside of my hand water perks through the perforated white liner -- clearly a lot of water. Once I get things reasonably dry with the top popped I'll lower the top and climb up there and seal everything. Thanks again.

 

[natjwest]

Ditto on what John said. I had the same problem as you - driver's side getting wet. But obviously not as bad as you since I live in Pacific Northwet and the camper gets rained on all the time, heavily, and there was only a smallish area of wetness. I lifted up the front of the camper (via jacks, then shims under my sawhorses) which relocated the water problem elsewhere. If you search for "roof" on this site, you'll get a lot of discussions about this very thing. The water runs along the tubular members and appears somewhere not necessarily right below the leak.

 

[John D]

All RVs leak, some more than others. For this reason, it is best to park your RV under cover. Nice idea, but not always possible. For example, my FWC is parked in the open and it leaks enough to leave the cusion in the forward starboard corner slightly damp, at times.

I have owned several RVs over the years. It is surprising how much water can come in a tiny hole in the roof. Examine your roof carefully, as with a magnifying glass. With as much water as you describe, you will find a hole in your roof somewhere. Look and ye shall find. John D

 

[Phird05]

All RVs leak, some more than others. For this reason, it is best to park your RV under cover. Nice idea, but not always possible. For example, my FWC is parked in the open and it leaks enough to leave the cusion in the forward starboard corner slightly damp, at times.

I have owned several RVs over the years. It is surprising how much water can come in a tiny hole in the roof. Examine your roof carefully, as with a magnifying glass. With as much water as you describe, you will find a hole in your roof somewhere. Look and ye shall find. John D


No intention to start an argument, but ALL RV's DON'T leak. I have a Hallmark Milner LX. It has the seamless, screwless, carbon fiber roof with no screws with the exception of the vents, and those don't go through to the inside. There is no trim or seams around the edge, so no screws. It is fully seamless and I am able to walk on it just to check the vents. I have never had any leaks and don't see how there could be. The edge of the roof sits over the lower portion of the camper far enough where I have had no issues in a driving rain while driving nor while set up in camp. I would assume that is why FWC is going to a seamless aluminum roof. That was certainly one of the factors I decided to purchase the Hallmark....no roof maintenance! Maybe jsonptrs, you could see if the FWC seamless roof is compatible with your camper and replace your existing one with that. It is certainly one of the best inventions of the camper industry.

I hope this helps.

Good camping,

Paul

 

[lostnot]

Before I sealed my camper I made sure to park it so it slanted toward the back. It kept the water from pooling.

Maybe instead of all campers leak. All campers will leak at some time.

 

[Yukon]

I live in the Seattle area where it rains a LOT! My camper has not leaked at all thankgooddness. But, I did buy a de-humidifier and I put that inside the camper periodically to suck out the moisture in hopes of not getting a lot of mold and mildew.

 

[Skeeter]

I had a pesky leak that I couldnt find, so I decided to take out every screw on the roof and side and reseal every single hole. I used a marine grade 3M seal in the screw holes and around the base of the screw heads. I replaced every rusty screw with stainless steel ones that I painted with several coats of off white paint. It takes some time, but this last nasty storm we had last week in Calif. proved that it was worth it. We camped at Joshua Tree and got hammered with constant rain and no leaks.
The roof is the weak point in the design. The 3M sealant I bought at Westmarine. When I get home in a few weeks I can let you know the exact type of sealant I used. -Joel

 

[pvstoy]

From the Westmarine web page... 3M sealants

5200 Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant:

Tenacious bonds and watertight seals above or below waterline

Provides exceptionally strong adhesion, yet stays flexible after it cures; may be used above or below the waterline. Ideal for underwater thru-hull fittings, hull-to-deck joints, portholes and bonding wood to fiberglass. Goes on smoothly, won’t sag, and remains workable up to four hours. Cures in 7 days with no shrinking.

• Formulation: One-part polyurethane adhesive/sealant
• Recommended Usage: Permanent bonding, above and below water. Extremely strong & flexible
• Material Incompatibilities: Plastics (ABS, Lexan)
• Cure Time: Tack free: 48 hrs; complete cure: 7 days; moisture activated cure
• Clean Up: Mineral spirits or kerosene
• Removal: Mechanical removal
• Tensile strength: 700psi

Fast Cure 4200 Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant:

Cures fast and forms a watertight seal between joints and hardware One-part, all-purpose sealant chemically reacts with moisture and forms flexible, watertight, weather-resistant seals on joints and hardware. Can be used above or below the waterline; approximately half the strength of 3M’s 5200, which allows for eventual dissasembly of parts. Note: Can be softened by some teak cleaners and sealers and is not recommended for sealing teak decks.

• Formulation: One-part fast-cure polyurethane adhesive/sealant
• Recommended Usage: Fiberglass, wood, metal, some plastics, above or below water
• Material Incompatibilities: Acrylics ABS, Lexan
• Cure Time: Tack free: 2 hrs; complete cure: 24 hrs
• Cleanup: Mineral spirits or kerosene
• Removal: Mechanical removal
• Tensile strength: 300psi

4000 UV Polyether Adhesive Sealant

Resistant to weathering, salt water and stresses caused by joint movement. White, non-yellowing formula is ideal for above and below waterline applications where aesthetic appeal is a priority. Seals between mechanically fastened joints on wood, fiberglass, metal and most plastics. Applications include sealing deck to hull joints, thru-hull fittings, window and door frames,etc. It is also paintable. Highly recommended for ABS, Lexan and other plastics.

• Formulation: One-part polyether adhesive/sealant
• Recommended Usage: Fiberglass, wood, metal, some plastics
• Cure Time: Tack-free: 2 hrs.; Complete cure: 24 hrs.
• Clean Up: Mineral spirits or kerosene
• Removal: Mechanical removal

 

[cwdtmmrs]

I have a Ranger II on a 1986 Toyota 4x4 turbo pick up. I have posted this a couple of times because IMO it is the best treatment for a camper roof. My roof did not leak but the paint was starting to fade. I had DIY truck bed liner material custom color matched to the exterior of the camper and sprayed the entire roof to seal and waterproof it completely, screws, seams, etc. Think about it...a bed liner on your roof. It really works well and dirt washes right off. Might even add some insulation effect as well. Better then anything else on the market. About $110 at any auto paint supply and the kit includes the spray gun. Absolutely perfect color match. Took a couple of hours to mask and spray.

For the wood floor I calked all of the seams and then used black brush/roll on truck bed liner to waterproof the bottom and sides of the camper. Worked great and gave the bottom a non-skid surface against the painted truck bed. You will need a throw away jump suit and painters head sock for this job!

CWD

PS. I also replaced every fastner I could get to in my camper with SS ones from Mcmaster-carr.

 

[jsonptrs]

Certainly looks like I need to replace all the fasteners and seal each hole. Things are drying out and thankfully there has only been a little snow today instead of rain. Should be clear tomorrow afternoon so I will drop the top and then cover the entire roof with a tarp until I can get the work done. When replacing the fasteners did you find that the original size worked best or do you advise going one size over? As usual, thanks for all the help.

 

[cwdtmmrs]

I should revise my earlier post that I did not replace the rooftop screws, because I did not want to disturb what was there and simply spray over them. They are never coming out again. All of the rest of the screws were replaced with like sizes. I would hand install or use a very low torque setting on a screw gun. You are only going into .063" aluminum, and not very hard at that. The only place I used oversize screws was on the assist handle by the rear door. The stock size there was only #8 which I thought was a little marginal.

CWD

 

[UglyScout]

I am chasing a very similar leak - it is running down one of the roof beams and coming out at the pass. rear corner. I started by pulling every screw on the side trim on the top and squiking a little silicon int he holes and putting the scres back in. If the screw was wet I tossed it and really squicked the silicone in the hole. If it was loose I tossed it and upsized it.

I had previously resealed all of the top screws.

I think my problem was just old age on some of the screws rusting. I think they had started to 'wick' water right down there threads - filling up the aluminum roof beams, which then ran out at the ends.

I real like the idea of bed lining the whole top, right down over the edge to where the fabric starts....

 

[The Prof]

Please keep me posted. I have the same issue with my Grandby: It leaks in the front driver side corner. We removed the pads, and without the cushion to soak it up, the amount of water is quite substantial, and I fear is damaging the board where the sleeping pad sits. We are in Reno as well, and with our trips over the hill in the past couple of months and the storms we have been getting here, there have been ample opportunities for the leak to present itself. When we purchased the unit the board was a little bubbled, on the underside, where it extends over the truck cab, so I suspect this is not a new issue. I am thinking, finding and repairing the leak will also include replacing this board. Please tell me if you have any luck and I will do the same on this end. Good luck.

 

[jsonptrs]

Just got back in town and will be repairing the roof this weekend. I am inclined to try the 3M sealant rather than regular silicone. I have used the 5200 and probably won't use that as disassembly would be difficult in the future. I will opt for the 4200 or 4000. Not sure if should get new screws or not or just replace the neoprene washers. While up there I am also going to replace the roof vents - they don't operate well anymore and hang up when being raised or lowered. After that if I still have a problem I will try the spray bed liner trick that cwdtmmrs used. Might also be a good time to put Thule or Yakima roof rack rails on. If anybody has advice on installing a roof rack it would be appreciated. I'll keep the board posted.

 

[whizbang]

We're in Seattle and on our 3rd truck camper combo. Our first camper, a late 80's vintage FWC never leaked. Our mid-90's Alpenlite did.

I'm fighting the same problem you are with leaks. Too many leaks and too little time. If it was summer(warmer and reasonably dry), I would re-seal and re-caulk EVERYTHING myself. It's not summertime. I got tired of having a wet camper. It's in an RV shop in Everett right now. They are supposed to finish sealing everything Friday so the sealants can dry and cure over the weekend and I can pick the camper up Monday.

Total bill: $1000. The camper isn't worth much more than that. Of course, it's worth nothing wet.

Anyway, I threw in the towel and got professional help. You might consider doing the same. Good luck.

 

[BSS]

I had the same problem a while back but wasn't sure where the leak/leaks were coming from, as very small amounts of water can travel great distances within the roofing structure and present themselves several feet from where they actually originate.

I decided to take the whole roof apart and start fresh. There was a small section (about 18" x 14" which had been patched years earlier, and I think the sealant finally dry-rotted and gave out. I removed the side/perimeter strips and found several rusty screws, which indicated there was definitely some water intrusion there as well. I used a wire wheel to every bit of caulk and paint on the roofing material down to the bare metal, including the inside and outside of the perimeter/crown strips, the roof vent, and the roof rack mounting points.

I used Sikaflex (#221, I think) sealant which is a single stage polyurethane based sealant for marine usage (deck fittings and the like). I cleaned the bare metal surfaces with acetone and reassembled the whole roof crown, patch, vents, rack, rear gutter, and screws with a good thick layer of the Sikaflex in between, as well as applied to the threads and undersides of the screw and bolt heads. I also used all new stainless fasteners on the sides and grade five bolts for the roof rack during reassembly, and re-painted everything to match beforehand. I've been leak-free for about two years now since. Total shop time was 3 or four afternoons over the course of a week or two when I had the time. So I guess my advice is to take the whole thing apart and start fresh and do it right. You'll spend the rest of your life just chasing down one spot at a time, and in the end probably would have done just about the entire job anyways. It's not a difficult job (mechanically), just a little tedious. Good luck.