Sorry..Old But Never Resolved..."Propane" [gases] Alarm's False Alarms

W

Wallowa

Double Ought
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,193
Location
NE Oregon
I never remember reading about a solution to the FWC propane and other gases alarm spuriously setting off the alarm...usually around 0130 hrs!

Not really questioning what gas, if any, is setting off the "false alarms".

As previously noted I even tried to duct tape over the entire face of the alarm unit to prevent any gases from reaching the alarm sensor....did not work.

Problem is that a true propane leak should set of an alarm; propane in a confined space is damn dangerous....but false alarms work against the alerting of camper occupants and detecting a problem..

With our Hawk in our shop and on 110 v and propane off at tank the alarm still goes off...In our Hawk AGM batteries [2] are in a neoprene sealed box [FWC's] with a screened vent inside the box venting down into truck bed...can't believe batteries are the source of the gas setting off the alarm...especially "sealed" AGMs.

Sooooooo, has anyone truly figured this out and came up with a way to stop the false alarms?

Thanks...Phil
 
Electronic alarm devices can fail by not alerting when genuine alarm conditions occur. And can also fail when alert mechanism fires alarm when no alarm condition is present.

Both are device failures but one is annoying and the other is dangerous. Perhaps, a new replacement device is called for?
Paul
 
I've seen reference to a fairly short half-life on propane (gas) alarms thus the need to replace them regularly.

Then again, I've had my pop-up trailer camper's gas alarm go of (at 0130) due to a powerful methane eruption within the camper. Said eruption took place approximately 6 hours after an order of 3 enchiladas, rice, black beans smothered in Monterey Jack was consumed by one of the occupants of the camper.

I am NOT making this up. The evidence of the methane eruption was plainly present when the alarm woke us up.

Foy
 
Foy said:
I've seen reference to a fairly short half-life on propane (gas) alarms thus the need to replace them regularly.

Then again, I've had my pop-up trailer camper's gas alarm go of (at 0130) due to a powerful methane eruption within the camper. Said eruption took place approximately 6 hours after an order of 3 enchiladas, rice, black beans smothered in Monterey Jack was consumed by one of the occupants of the camper.

I am NOT making this up. The evidence of the methane eruption was plainly present when the alarm woke us up.

Foy
Click to expand...
We call those “Blanket Floaters”.
 
I've seen reference to a fairly short half-life on propane (gas) alarms thus the need to replace them regularly.

Then again, I've had my pop-up trailer camper's gas alarm go of (at 0130) due to a powerful methane eruption within the camper. Said eruption took place approximately 6 hours after an order of 3 enchiladas, rice, black beans smothered in Monterey Jack was consumed by one of the occupants of the camper.

I am NOT making this up. The evidence of the methane eruption was plainly present when the alarm woke us up.

Foy


================================================================================

Oh crap! [no joke intended... :D ]..."I have met the enemy and it is me! "

Foy while yours was not a FWC alarm, the point is well taken. As to the alarms needing to be replaced due to a short half-life [of sensor?] it would seem that a failed alarm would not sound an alarm if the senor has weakened.

As I remember numerous FWC owners complained that seemingly unexplained 'propane alarms' which were all too common...replacing the alarm does not make sense without knowing why it is sounding an alarm....hypersensitive or just schizophrenic?

As most of you know I am not one to conjure an issue without real understanding of the issue...real or imagined? and if real, why?

Old school DIY mechanic that I am, fixing the problems by replacing components without solid justification is not my way.

Our porta-potty is niched into the space behind the end of the side diner rear seat and opposite the propane alarm....but only used for urine...HOWEVER, clorox crystals in the potty did seem to set off the alarm one night....resolved by opening door and turning ceiling fan at rear of camper to "3" for a few minutes..

My WAG is that damn near anything that is not roughly 20 oxygen and 80 nitrogen will set alarm off...leaning toward hypersensitive sensor... will look for way to at least disconnect the alarm at night; problem of course is that is when the propane heater may be in use and a deep 'propane sleep' might be one you don't wake up from...

Must add that for all the carping heard on the forum about the systems or components on the FWC being in some manner insufficient or of low quality, that is not what I have found with our '16 Hawk...yes, it was for me a lot of $$$$; but thus far I have been extremely happy with the quality and functionality of our Hawk...a well thought out and structured camper.

But hey, I could be wrong !! ;)

Phil

Ps...Methane is lighter than air; so unless you fill the camper down to the level of the sensor near the floor [Agggggh!] that should not set off the alarm.
 
Foy said:
I've seen reference to a fairly short half-life on propane (gas) alarms thus the need to replace them regularly.

Then again, I've had my pop-up trailer camper's gas alarm go of (at 0130) due to a powerful methane eruption within the camper. Said eruption took place approximately 6 hours after an order of 3 enchiladas, rice, black beans smothered in Monterey Jack was consumed by one of the occupants of the camper.

I am NOT making this up. The evidence of the methane eruption was plainly present when the alarm woke us up.

Foy
Click to expand...
OMG... ROFLMAO ... thanks for that Foy!!!
 
I found my Atwood sensor started having more false alarms as it aged. At 3 yrs it finally gave me the beep of death. Also at 3am...
I'm researching a different sensor but the Atwood is under $10...maybe the short life is expected? Year 1 absolutely no false alarms. Year 2 only 1 false alarm.
Year 3, at least 4-5 false alarms in the first few months...followed by beep of death. So really it only lasted 2.5yrs...
 
I thought I was getting a false alarm this past summer while on the road. Soaped the entire system in the camper and found nothing, still the alarm persisted. Turned out to be a slow leak on a 1lb cylinder in the couch storage area. Moral here is don't fixate on the camper system, check it all before replacing the detector. FYI, I got home and tested all the 1lb cylinders I had(got several from someone who was moving). I found on average 1 out of 5 leaked at the check valve. So much for thinking the check valves work after removing a stove or lantern attachment.
 
knoxswift said:
I found my Atwood sensor started having more false alarms as it aged. At 3 yrs it finally gave me the beep of death. Also at 3am...
I'm researching a different sensor but the Atwood is under $10...maybe the short life is expected? Year 1 absolutely no false alarms. Year 2 only 1 false alarm.
Year 3, at least 4-5 false alarms in the first few months...followed by beep of death. So really it only lasted 2.5yrs...
Click to expand...

OK...I will bite [probably should know this]....but what is the "Beep of Death"? Never noted different sequences or tones when it beeped..

Thanks...
 
Beach said:
I thought I was getting a false alarm this past summer while on the road. Soaped the entire system in the camper and found nothing, still the alarm persisted. Turned out to be a slow leak on a 1lb cylinder in the couch storage area. Moral here is don't fixate on the camper system, check it all before replacing the detector. FYI, I got home and tested all the 1lb cylinders I had(got several from someone who was moving). I found on average 1 out of 5 leaked at the check valve. So much for thinking the check valves work after removing a stove or lantern attachment.
Click to expand...

Thanks good info....in my case all our small stove canisters are in the truck cab...but your experience does point to a hypersensitive detector; as does our 'Clorox alarm' on our last trip...unfortunately this still doesn't lead me to a solution to prevent extraneous and unneeded alarms...it would seem that the detectors will activate on damn near any carbon based gas....do wonder why cooking in the camper does not start the alarm, even with the window and roof vent [not on] above the stove opened to vent out combustion and cooking gases and odors.

Phil
 
I don't have an Atwood combination LP/CO detector so I don't have direct experience with it. However....

Maybe I missed it but I don't recall discussions in any of the false-alarm threads of what the LEDs and audible alerts and alarms do when these problems occur. Offhand, I'd think those indications would be helpful in troubleshooting the problem.

So here's the manual for Atwood's LPCO (combination LP and CO) detector. (It's a March 2015 version so may not apply to yours. If you have the paper one that came with the unit, refer to that one)

Page 17 has this table:

(Click to enlarge)

AtwoodLPCOTroubleshootingTable.jpg

I'd be surprised if anyone as memorized the beep-timing or LED indications so I guess all we can do is take notice of these things the next time an alarm happens so we can look for a clue.

The other things I notice in the manual are:

1- The warnings (on page 11):

 Never use detergents or solvents to clean the alarm (as) chemicals can permanently damage or temporarily contaminate the sensor.
 Avoid spraying air freshener, hair spray, paint or other aerosols near the alarm.
 The following is a list of substances that at high levels can affect the sensor and cause an alarm. (Methane, propane, iso-butane, ethylene, ethanol, alcohol, carbon monoxide, iso-propylene, benzene, toluene, ethyl acetate, hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, sulfur dioxides.)

This brings to mind the fact that many aerosols use propane, butane, or isobutane as a propellant. ( This article on ExplainThatStuff probably tells you more than really want to know on that subject.). Note also that the propane used as an aerosol propellent doesn't have an odor. The point? If I were having a false-alarms problem, I'd remove aerosols -- just to eliminate the possibility.

2- The specs (on page 7). The voltage range and operating temperature range look like there's plenty of room for the variations we'd expect. I did see, though, there's a warning on page 5 telling us the alarm can show a Fault status if it's subjected to 'abnormally low temperatures'. Unfortunately, there's no detail. It's also not clear if that just gives a fault light or an audible alarm.

.
 
Old Crow,

Many thanks; dummy me never thought of looking for a Pdf!

Will try to unravel the chirps and LEDs to determine what is activating our detector's sensor...if anything.

Did see that Atwood says the detector sensor is good for "7 years +/- 128 days" while powered up.....Hmmmm, awfully definitive that "128 days"...

Thanks again and if I find out what is up with our detector I will post that information here...

Phil
 
I replaced both of mine, a new smoke/CO2 and propane/CO2. The smoke alarm is a talking one. Mine kept going off. Not a problem since replacing both.
 
longhorn1 said:
I replaced both of mine, a new smoke/CO2 and propane/CO2. The smoke alarm is a talking one. Mine kept going off. Not a problem since replacing both.
Click to expand...

Small point...but the Atwood gas detector is for Propane ["LP"] and CO [Carbon Monoxide]...not CO2...
 
There you go...in the PDF the beep of death is the one labeled end of life and error fault. That's the 2 that led me to replace my unit.
It no where near lasted 7 years.
Unless it was old on the shelf when originally installed...I never looked for a date. I got the beep of death so just replace it. But as mentioned it did give progressive false alarms before it finally gave me the fault beeps and LEDs.
 
knoxswift said:
There you go...in the PDF the beep of death is the one labeled end of life and error fault. That's the 2 that led me to replace my unit.
It no where near lasted 7 years.
Unless it was old on the shelf when originally installed...I never looked for a date. I got the beep of death so just replace it.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks, the Pdf answered a lot of questions for me.....& shelf life evidently does not factor into the sensor life-span...only powered up hours [Pg 9]...
 
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