Speaking of freezing....

S

slash2

Senior Member
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Dec 18, 2017
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SF Bay Area
Hi folks,

I'm a new owner of a 2013 Fleet that is equipped with a water tank, pump and sink. I'm looking forward to getting out more often in the winter months now that I have a warm place to sleep but I was wondering what I need to know about keeping things from freezing when I'm not in the camper with the heat on. I assume I need to worry about the water system freezing up during the day as I drive around in sub freezing temperatures but I haven't heard any discussions about it, can I get some schooling on what I do and don't need to know when camping with a pop up in the cold months? Thanks.

Slash2
 
Depends on how cold and how long. I've never had a problem doing an overnighter in cold temps. I'm sure the longer you're out the more of an issue it will be. I don't even bother to winterize my camper living in Sac.
 
I'm not so much concerned about winterizing as I live in the Bay Area, I'm more concerned about what might happen to the water system during the day when I'm out on a trip in below freezing temperatures. Do i need to worry about things freezing up while the trucks parked at the ski resort all day or if i'm driving across Wyoming and it's way below freezing outside? Seems to me things are going to get cold quick inside the camper once the heats turned off, won't the water in the pump and the lines freeze, and if so what do people do to keep things from freezing up when they are out and traveling in really cold weather?

/2
 
My advice is to winterize and error on the safe side. We live in Indiana and after our last camping trip I winterize everything, empty the water tank (still has 2 gallons +/- water), empty the hot water heater back into the water tank, run RV antifreeze through the lines both hot and cold water in the sink and outside shower until pink comes out, turn the pump off, empty the gray line from the sink, leave inside faucet turned on, and finally add 2-3 final gallons of RV antifreeze into the water tank.

We took 2 gallons of water in a spigoted comtainer.

You will have to evaluate the trip and the risk

Taking containers or possibly having to rip your cabinets out to replace cracked lines, water pump, and water tank will be an expensive mistake. JD
 
Thanks Longhorn, good advice and it only makes sense, if it's going to get really cold for any length of time the water is going to freeze whether you're driving, parked or stored for the winter. I'm new to the luxury of camping with a roof over my head and my lazy side was hoping that maybe you folks had some cool trick that you used to keep the plumbing operational during cold weather trips, but it sounds like flushing and antifreeze are in order and that I will need to fall back on using water jugs rather than turning on the tap! Oh the horror!

Thanks again!

/2
 
We use our camper and water system year round, with winter trips primarily to the South West - so nights well below freezing and days around freezing to slightly above freezing. We have had no issues with the water system freezing with a few precautions. We run the heater when we are camped to heat to around 55F when we are up, and 45F at night. We use the hot water heater to keep the cabinet with the pump and plumbing warm - we heat up the tank in the evening and it is still warmish in the morning and we heat it up again in the morning if we expect the day to be below freezing. 6 Gallons of hot water seems to have plenty of thermal inertia to keep the plumbing cabinet warm for at least 12 hours. If it is going to be really cold we will heat up the hot water tank, dump it back into the main tank to warm that up and then heat up the hot water tank again.

It sounds like you don't have the a hot water heater, which means most of our tips won't work for you. You could leave the furnace on while you drive/park. I haven't tried this, but I imagine it would work - you can leave the hot water heater on while you drive. You can also just do a 'quick winterization' when you are done with the water in the morning - pull the strainer cup from the pump, dump out the water then run the pump dry for a little bit then reinstall the empty strainer. Your main tank it unlikely to freeze and no big deal if does. Some of the pipes may freeze, but this is not a big deal with the newer PEX plumbing as it is somewhat elastic and is unlikely to rupture - the pump is really the only issue and as long as it has some air space for expansion, it should be fine as well.
 
You are correct Rando, I do not have a water heater, just the stove and heater plus a water tank, pump and sink that the previous owner fabbed in himself. The sink drains directly to the outside, no grey water tank, so pouring water into the sink out of a jug rather than turning the faucet on is no big deal.
Thanks for the feedback, it was probably kind of a rookie question, but then I'm a rookie, at least now i won't be a rookie with frozen water pump and a flooded camper!

/2
 
When I am using my camper in shoulder seasons and haven't winterized the tank/facet, I will leave the furnace on low setting at night in the driveway with the top down and the cabinet door open to prevent water freezing. I do this when the nights are getting pretty cold. Doesn't run too often and prevents freeze up.

-Rick
 
When I was camping in winter past couplea years, I kept my heater at 54 overnight, and left the cabinet door to the water pump open so that it would get the benefit of the circulating warmth. I never had a problem.
 
You can bet that if I'm in the camper and it's way below freezing out I'm going to have the heater on!

My concern was for when I'm not in it and it's closed up with the top down either parked or while I'm driving around. Do people leave the heater on low in situations like that to keep things from freezing up inside?

I have a solar panel, two deep cycle batteries and an inverter, has anyone used something like heat tape to protect the plumbing or am I just looking for a solution to something that really isn't a problem?

https://www.amazon.com/WRAP-Pipe-Heating-Cable-Built/dp/B0002YWM2I

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Minco-12V-Self-Regulating-Heat-Trace-Cable-for-Freeze-Protection-/262588585913


/2
 
The idea to wrap electrified tape around the lines/pipes/tanks to keep them from freezing may be OK if you really go out in weather so bad it is freezing up everything! However, if it is 110-volt you would have to solve that problem with your existing solar/battery/inverter set up. Beyond that, it might come down to using too much AC over night to do that. I suppose a timer could be used so that the drain can be set for a specific amount of time on the battery(s) so you don't kill them. The question would be, do you use up too much power to fully utilize the batteries when the sun isn't shining and your solar system isn't producing?

Right off you should explore insulating the spaces where the tanks/lines/pumps/etc. are from external cold, then you get the benefit of any heat from the inside of your camper can help keep them from freezing up. As noted, keeping the doors from the inside of the camper to those utilities would allow the heat left in the camper to help ward off the external cold from freezing them up.

However...before tearing things apart and spending money, why not do some testing? Here we are in the middle of winter so perhaps you can take your rig up I-80 far enough to where it is in the teens/twenties these days and borrow one of those thermal reading guns? You can find out exactly how fast the heat in your camper is dissipated and how fast things start to get below 32' in your utilities.

As noted above, you may find that not only over night, but during a day of skiing your camper will not lose enough heat to freeze up things with nothing more than some insulation and keeping the doors to things open to the inside of the camper.

Worth checking out perhaps.
 
Thanks for the insights PackRat, they make sense. The previous owner had mentioned how the heater had kept him warm at night in sub freezing temperatures so i guess I can extrapolate that he also didn't have any problems with freezing during the day while he was out skiing or driving around. Perhaps I should get a little more experience under my belt before I go throwing money at at problems that may not exist. For all I know the camper may be able to withstand prolonged cold weather better than I can!

Thanks for the Feedback folks!

/2
 
In really cold weather, even if the heater is left on, it is unlikely that there is enough heat circulation to keep pipes from freezing. Carrying water in jugs is what this Rver-Skier does when on a ski road trip.
 
PEX - plumbing DOES crack, maybe not the tubes but the connectors will. Staying overnight with the furnace on is not the main issue, how about driving during daytime at 0F. Drain your system and stay safe.
 
Dano2 and Hekmek are right-on. No matter what the people say about not having problems in cold temperatures, all it takes is one time for the lines, fittings, pump, or water tank to crack. Trying to get to these lines to replace them may require removing cabinets, resulting in an expensive repair.

Our camper was winterized and we are on week 3 of below zero temperatures.

What risk are you willing to take? Winterize and take water jugs. jd
 
"What risk are you willing to take? Winterize and take water jugs. jd"


Sounds Good! Thanks!

/2
 
I'm sure it depends on how cold it is, but I skied out of my FWC about 40 days last year on the west coast including some days in Lassen where it was close to 0F. I keep the heater at 40F at night, and if it's super cold outside I'll leave the heater on at 35F. Never worried about in transit, and haven't had any problems.
 
Just got back from another long weekend of winter camping in Colorado - we use our water system as usual and had no problems. It is oh so nice to wash up in nice hot water when it is 20 degrees out. You have to decide on your own comfort level here - but it seems that the advice from those who use their camper in the winter is that as long as you take reasonable precautions, there is no issue. For me anyway, about 1/2 my camping has (or has the potential to have) below freezing temperatures, so it would be a great shame not to be able to use my expensive water system.

Also, at leas on the newer flatbed campers - the plumbing is essentially all in one cabinet and uses pex and push to connect fittings, so even if you were to crack one, it would not be a big deal to switch it out.
 
I experienced a cracked PEX fitting a couple of years ago on my 2013 FLEET.
WWW post with pics.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/12043-pex-piping-repair/

I ended up repairing it myself using SHARKBITE fittings which I now carry a spare and some extra PEX pipe. I had been camping at high altitude at the GREAT BASIN NATIONAL PARK a week prior and the temp dropped to 27, I had the door open and hot water tank warmed up. I'm not sure why it failed...but it did.

I discovered the leak when I turned on the water pump. Water went all over the back end of the electrical panel. Luckily, I suffered no damage. I put in a plastic shield behind the electrical panel and plumbing for protection.
 
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