Suspension air bags

[John D]

In reading this thread, I believe I became aware of something I have been missing all along; you guys have problems with harmonic bouncing along the California Super Slabs with your short trucks. Though the suspension on my half ton full size Chevy 1500 is stock, and I am heavily loaded with a Keystone, I have no problems at any speed on the interstate. I could never understand why so many people in this forum spend so much time and money putting springs and airbags on trucks with more than enough load capacity. Why?

I am an old man and sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night which is what happened just now. Here I am bored. I took a tape measure outside to measure the wheelbase of my truck and it equals 155 inches. This is long. Take a tape measure outside and measure your wheelbase. If you have trouble bouncing, I bet your wheelbase is less than 155 inches.

Kilroy, I think you solved the problem, bouncing on the interstate is better alleviated by a longer wheelbase … which it the one thing that can’t be changed on a specific truck. …What to do? I can see how air bags would work better than stiffening the suspension when the problem is harmonic bouncing or hobby horsing. In part, due to so much I see written here, I added air shocks. I needed new shocks anyway. Air shocks really don’t change my truck very much and I run only 25 pounds of air pressure. If I ran a lot of pressure in these air shocks, too much stress would be put on the shock mounting points. Sooooo, air bags must be a practical solution to harmonic bouncing over concrete highways with short trucks. (Probably the real solution with a short truck is to slow down. That is not going to actually alter the complex cause of the harmonic hobby horsing either, but you will survive better.) John D

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Here's how it turned out

Since I began this thread several weeks ago, I've gone back and forth about what to do. The tire dealer wanted $600 to install the airbags, which is a job that's simply beyond my ability to do myself. I checked around town with other shops and most quoted a price in that neighborhood.

Yesterday I visited a large Toyota dealership in west Denver, and their chief mechanic and I had a long conversation. Bottom line: I'm leaving the truck as it is. The ride is fine and I haven't "bottomed out" the springs so far as I know. The new eight-ply Yokohamas cost plenty, but I expect to get some good mileage from them.

As for the ride on concrete highways, that's a separate issue.

 

[Barko1]

I'm not a great mechanic and that is an overstatement but I am cheap so I installed air ride bags myself last week. Had the tools, bought a better drill since I needed one anyway and some nice sharp bits. Biggest struggle was getting around a fuel ine, guess it's not good to drill into those. Went to a shorter bolt. Glad to hear I saved a bunch of money. $600 is a lot, 10 hours? With a lift and competance it shouldn't take half that long. Once the upper brackets are installed it seems easy. Watch mine fall out!

 

[DLN]

CG,

Toyota's do have very soft springs and will likely deform over time when constantly loaded. I was warned by some knowledgeable people to watch out for that and the spring unraveling at the end bolt mounting point. I also had a conversation with another Eagle on Tacoma owner (not a member here) about his air bag failing in Southern Nevada and on the drive back to the S.F. bay area he flattened one spring. I believe he went to an add-a-leaf along with his air bags. Just my experience, please ignore it if you choose. Keep us posted on your truck's performance.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Here's how it all turned out...

Hey fellas -- After my little drama with the stolen truck (posted in a separate thread) I'm happy to report the conclusion to this old problem -- for about one-third the cost of air bags, my dealer installed a rubber-plastic spacer between the leaf springs and the frame. Effect was the same as adding a spacer. I believe these gadgets are called Timerens, though that's not the correct spelling.

Also, I upgraded the rubber to Yokohamas, an 8-ply tire, and that seemed to stiffen the ride. The spacers stiffen it further. Tomorrow we set sail on a three-week trip, so I'm pumped.

 

[MarkL]

Close, they're called Timbren's. The also make great bump stops

http://www.timbren.com/aeon-rubber-springs.htm

 

[Garymc]

I pick my Eagle up on Monday and have another Ride-Rite question.... I installed the ride-rites with some spacers to make up for my lift and am wondering if it is better to run the springs a little on the 'compressed' side or on the 'stretched' side?
I hope that makes sense....

 

[5 Speed]

Articulation

Since you have a lift be sure to check the articulation from side to side and this should point you in the direction to either have the bag slightly compressed or expanded. The bags can rip if you jack the frame with air in the bags and this could happen with a lift and full suspension articulation. I would like to point out because most new trucks have a very soft suspension and while my truck rode level without the air bags going 70 mph over a large Southern California whoop in the freeway this is where my truck used to bottom out on the stops and the air bags solved this problem. While in Alaska I wasn't paying attention as much as I should have and hit a serious section of frost heaves and the truck didn't bottom out, thought I was going to get a case of whip-lash though. Along with the bags on the rear I added the Bilstein HD shocks to the rear so after the large whoops the rebound is under control. In addition I have the new Hellwig bar on the rear and it is very very stable.

 

[k5nutt]

My 2 cents worth....

I have had my blazer chalet for about 13 years now...

And here is my thoughts.

Airbags are great...i run 5 to 10 psi in my bags.
I hate Firestones mounting methods though. A u-bolt around the spring pack
which to some degree pre-loads the over load spring in the pack didn't sit well with me so....i made a pair of spring plates from 3/16 inch steel...used the old spring plate to drill the u-bolt holes and hole in the center for the spring pin...and 4 additional holes on the outside corners to delete the u-bolts and use grade 8 bolts to mount the bag mount.

Next up was to fix the rear axle sway bar links. For the sway bar to do its job the bar must be level with the axle. The PO of my chalet had the bar pointing up and the links were bent and destroyed. I bought a universal link kit from energy suspension at Autozone along with some all thread....and then to the metal yard in town for some steel tubing to make the sleeves.

With the sway bar issue corrected and the airbags installed i can't say enough for the difference of the handling...basically..money well spent.

DW

 

[dougmac98]

Air Bags in Toyota

I just learned something about using suspension in airbags in Toyota pickups. In models up to 2007 there is a brake proportioner valve which senses the level of the truck and changes brake pressure accordingly. In other words if there is weight in the back and the rear of the truck is lower it will apply more brake pressure to the rear brakes.

What this means is by installing lifts the truck is staying level even tho' there is more weight in the back than usual, so the front brakes will be doing more work than usual since the proportioner hasn't shifted braking pressure.

It may not be a huge issue but we Toyota owners need to be aware of it and check the brakes more often. I'm not sure if this applies to the Tundra, too, or just the Tacoma and pre-Tacoma pickups.

 

[pvstoy]

Yes you are right....Here is a post started 4-2007 http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=404

Included this within another post also........

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Love the Timberins

Just returned from a 2,500-mile jaunt, and happy to report that the Timberins have solved all problems. The truck handles much better now, and the "bucking" sensation I encountered on grooved concrete highways has disappeared.

Airbags have any number of things that can go wrong with them. For one-third the cost, the Timberins are the ticket, at least for me. Maybe we can put this thread to rest once and for all. Cheers.

 

[the fisherman]

Just Wondering

Are those things adjustable for different trailer tounge weight? There is a reason why they make airbags, probably 150000mi with bags, no problems.

 

[5 Speed]

I just learned something about using suspension in airbags in Toyota pickups. In models up to 2007 there is a brake proportioner valve which senses the level of the truck and changes brake pressure accordingly. In other words if there is weight in the back and the rear of the truck is lower it will apply more brake pressure to the rear brakes.

What this means is by installing lifts the truck is staying level even tho' there is more weight in the back than usual, so the front brakes will be doing more work than usual since the proportioner hasn't shifted braking pressure.

It may not be a huge issue but we Toyota owners need to be aware of it and check the brakes more often. I'm not sure if this applies to the Tundra, too, or just the Tacoma and pre-Tacoma pickups.

They have had these valves forever, I have them on my 83 and 87 toyotas PU's as well as my 2000 Tundra. Most lift kits for PU's come with brackets that move the valve and I have always thought it might add a little more stopping power with the bags but probably not necessary. , I know my 87 Northwest Offroad Stage 1 kit came with it but I don't think this is a huge issue with the newer trucks and the light weight of our campers. I have a 2000 Tundra and have had the camper on for over 4 years and put over 70,000 miles with the camper on the back and the truck has over 134K and still has 1/2 of the original front pads left, yes original. And this is the year that everyone bitched about the poor brakes. I just always drove it like a truck with a camper on the back and didn't drive it like a rocket sports car. What I believe is most of the brake problems comes from not using the parking brake every stop. My Tundra is a stick and this is a must do, automatics are suppose to do it, most don't so the rears never get adjusted.

 

[k5nutt]

Airbags and such....

Just a thought....

I worked for freightliner for 11 years and i was the stooge that volunteered to go to salt lake for my FCCC training not realizing how many FTL FCCC's frequent western colorado....not something i enjoyed working on full time needless to say...lol.

Anyways most modern day medium to heavy duty commercial trucks and or rv's employee airbags as standard equiptment anymore. That means there is a wide variety of parts available to custom tune your system as it were with a lil thought on the matter and some elbow grease. Keep in mind that when you apply air to the bags one must realize you are also effecting the driveline angle of your rig. Alot of class 8 truck trans synchro pins are broken this way...so make sure you measure your driveline angle and then devise a way of checking that angle with the bags inflated to keep in the 3 degree window.

Ok....you can add seperate ride height control valves on both sides of the rear axle. And thanx to modern day Legris (push lock) fittings plumbing them is a snap. Each valve is equipt with a pivoting arm that has a rod in it that is anchored to the axle housing...thus providing independent control of each corner of the vehicle and a smoother ride as well.....

My .02 cents and something to ponder....

DW

 

[wirish]

ride-rite air springs for 2002 Tacoma 4x4 TRD

I recently purchased a used 2002 Tacoma 4x4 TRD for use with my new FWC Eagle (to be picked up later this week).

After reading about the various suspension options on the forums I've decided that ride-rite air spring would best meet my needs. Unfortunately, determining the correct model number for my particular version of Tacoma is less than straightforward.

None of the on-line sites, or even the Firestone site itself, show the exact combination of year, 4x4, and TRD that I have. I sent Firestone an email and received back a terse reply of: "You will need a 2304 along with a 2366 spacer kit".

So, this information is probably correct - after all, it did come directly from the manufacturer - but I'd like to confirm with an actual Tacoma user on these forums that this combination makes sense. Anyone out there with a similar year and model Tacoma that can vouch for this?

Any other relevant information would be welcomed as well.

Thanks,

Wes

 

[DLN]

Wes,

I have the same truck as you and the 2304 part is correct though I didn't have to use the spacer they mention. I bought my parts on line from "Michigan Truck" at www.Truckspring.com. The part ran about $260 and at the time shipping was free. Good luck and welcome aboard.

I just rechecked the site and the part number is the same but I think the price is a little better and shipping is still free.

 

[wirish]

DLN,

Thanks for the info. Very interesting. It's the spacers that I was most unsure about. The fact that you aren't using them seems to suggest that they are not necessary. I think that I'll start out without them and see how things look during the install.

And thanks for the pointer to truckspring.com, their price and shipping looks hard to beat. I'll probably be placing my order tonight.

-Wes

 

[Bajaahh]

Tacoma technical service bulletin

This may already be known, but I couldnt find it in any threads.

I have a 2008 Taco that is getting a new "Finch" 4WC next month.
Currently my Tacoma bottoms out when slightly loaded.
A friend who owns a 2009 told me there is a TSB for this issue. He took his in to Toyota and they agreed to replace the rear USA 3 leaf spring package with the Canadian 4 leaf package, for free. I took mine in and they agreed to do the TSB as well. It took some persuading because they said I changed the suspension by adding airbags(and cutting the bump-stop). Now I have to take them off so they can do the work. Anyway, I dont know the range of years this TSB applies to but it is work investigating...
Sounds like I'll have to put the airbags on again, but another leaf will surely help.

-Scott

 

[Bajaahh]

Toyota technical service bulletin.

This may already be known, but I couldnt find it in any threads.

I have a 2008 Taco that is getting a new "Finch" 4WC next month.
Currently my Tacoma bottoms out when slightly loaded.
A friend who owns a 2009 told me there is a TSB for this issue. He took his in to Toyota and they agreed to replace the rear USA 3 leaf spring package with the Canadian 4 leaf package, for free. I took mine in and they agreed to do the TSB as well. It took some persuading because they said I changed the suspension by adding airbags(and cutting the bump-stop). Now I have to take them off so they can do the work. Anyway, I dont know the range of years this TSB applies to but it is work investigating...
Sounds like I'll have to put the airbags on again, but another leaf will surely help.

-Scott