Tacoma/Fleet vs Ford150/Hawk

[JohnC]

Hello. I am brand new to the site (Post #1). My wife and I are planning to purchase a truck and FWC in 2017. We would like some help, though.

We like the “feel” and smaller size of the Tacoma/Fleet combo, but, from what I can tell, the Tacoma is overloaded with a Fleet, gear, and us. The maximum wet weight is likely to add up to about 1,700 lbs. Add in 2 adults + 1 dog and the total payload is 2,000 lbs. The rated payload on the Tacoma is a measly 1,155 lbs. That is a whopping 850 lbs over capacity as you are bumping down Forest Service roads looking for a campsite. Yet, I see more pictures on the web of the Tacoma/Fleet combo that anything else. FWC certainly has no problem selling and putting the 1-ton Fleet+stuff on a ½-ton truck.

What gives? How is this ½-ton truck/1-ton camper combo possible? And safe? Why are people happy with this pairing? Please forgive my ignorance, neither my wife nor I have ever owned a truck and we are nearly 60 and 58.

Why would I not want to put a Hawk on a Ford F150 with a V-8 and a rated payload of 2,200 lbs? The larger size of the truck is not exactly attractive to us, but we would put up with it, and get used to it, if it made sense.

I appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts with us.

 

[cwdtmmrs]

I don't really see the Tacoma as that much smaller than a Ford 150 anymore. Check the dimensions

cwd.

 

[Lineman]

I would recommend getting inside both the fleet and the hawk. I thought I wanted a fleet until I got into one right after a hawk. Get the camper you want and then get a truck for it. I sold my Tacoma and bought a full size. We also find the full size more comfortable to ride in.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

HI John, welcome to WTW !

With two adults and a dog, I believe you're going to find a Fleet pretty tight. If the pup has any size, make that really tight. If it were me, I'd be looking at a larger camper and the F150. We have two campers, a Northern Lite on a F350, and an ATC Bobcat on a Ford Ranger. From experience, I can tell you even the Northern Lite becomes cramped with two adults and a large dog (we now have 2 large dogs), and the Bobcat, which is Fleet sized, is cramped with just me and a pup. By the way, have you looked at ATC? If you want to customize your camper, they are very willing to do so.

 

[JohnC]

cwdtmmrs
cwdtmmrs- Thank you, but I am most concerned about payload capacity. The difference between the two as listed by Ford and Toyota websites is 2,200 lbs - 1155 lbs = 1,045 lbs. The Ford more than twice the rated payload of the Tacoma.

Lineman and Wandering Sagebrush - This is exactly the experience I was hoping would be shared. Thank you. I am fine with the larger truck, but now I just need to convince my wife that, with time, she will get used to driving something larger than our Subaru wagon.

Do you believe that it is essential or smart to upgrade the suspension system that comes stock on the Ford 150? If so, what might that be?

 

[rilcombs]

Hey John,

I went through the exact same predicament early this year. The decision maker for me ended up being the size of the Tacoma (I'm 6'5") not the size of the camper. What I later learned is my wife and I would have had to sleep North-South in a Fleet, while we're able to sleep East-West in our Raven. This frees up space, and makes setup easier (not that it's very difficult in the first place).

Most people end up beefing up the Tacoma suspension/tires etc making it perfectly safe. The stock power is probably something to be desired, but that's really up to you and how you drive.

We ended up with a Tundra CM/Raven combo and are really happy with it. The MPG is probably 2-3 worse than a modded Tacoma, but at the end of the day I think the space/power are pretty nice.

Hope that helps!
Riley

 

[veryactivelife]

I would agree with the advice to spend some time hanging out in the different models and configurations. We started out wanting a Fleet on a Taco until we spent a few hours (literally) over several visits sitting in, moving around in, visualizing how we would use the camper as well as store our gear. In the end we purchased a Hawk Flatbed and put it on a RAM 2500 Cummins. Never been happier!

Dean
@veryactivelife

 

[rotti]

Do you believe that it is essential or smart to upgrade the suspension system that comes stock on the Ford 150? If so, what might that be?

Yes John, I would immediately upgrade that F150 to a 3/4 ton truck.

Why spend money on upgrading a 1/2 ton? Load range E tires, air bags, different spring packs, sway bars, etc., etc. I see this over and over on this forum and I understand it if one already owns a 1/2 ton truck, but you're starting with a clean slate. The exterior size is about the same between a 1/2 and a 3/4 (GM and Ram) and the 3/4 ton comes equipped to do the job....I like having an excess of 600 pounds of payload capacity instead of being at or over.

I understand that GM and Ford build "heavy 1/2 tons" but they are rare on the lots and usually provide little cost savings. I think a great topic on this forum would be: "Have you ever regretted getting a 3/4 ton truck for your camper?" Not me.....and I don't recall ever hearing of anyone having regrets.

Congratulations on doing your homework.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

John, You don't need a 3/4 or 1 ton, but I sure like mine. My Ranger/Bobcat is what I consider to be my mobile man cave for photo and fishing trips when The Bride wouldn't want to come with me. I guess it comes down to where you want to go and what you want to do. Going back to your question, at minimum, I would put airbags on a 1/2 ton. Maybe even add springs if the camper was a permanent install.

Take your wife with you and test drive some of the trucks you're considering, including 3/4 and 1 tons. I think you'll be surprised how easy they are to drive. Their comfort might be a game changer for her existing beliefs. The one thing I would say is a full size, long bed, crew cab truck is very, very long. If you're going into tight places, a shorter truck would prove to be easier to maneuver.

 

[dharte]

If you are careful with options and packages, the price difference between 3/4 ton and 1/2 ton isn't much. 12 years ago when I bought my new F250, I was debating this too ( I didn't have a camper then but I new I eventually would want one when my kids were grown up). The salesman said to buy the most truck you could afford, and I have no regrets. My F250 carries the camper full-time, and effortlessly. It has the slide in camper package so the extra thick sway bars and heavier springs probably help. Good Luck

 

[camper rich]

My first FWC was a 1998 Ranger II Shell and I put it on a Dodge Dakota with an automatic trans and a 5.3 V8 engine. The second time I had to repair the transmission I told my wife I wanted a real truck that was actually built to haul a load, so I bought a 2008 Ram 2500 with a 5.7 Hemi. It actually gets better milage than the Dakota did, and it hauled the shell, completely loaded with gear to Baja without breaking a sweat. The last 4 years we have hauled the shell plus our Casita trailer with no problems.

I always felt the Dakota was overloaded on the Baja trips, always weighing in at 1000# over GVWR. In the end it was more than the truck could handle. I had air bags but they were a PITA, always going flat on me. I have Timbrens on my 2500 just to keep it level with the camper and the 400# tongue weight of the Casita.

The 3/4 ton truck really increased my options. Now were going to take delivery on a new Grandby for my short bed 3/4 and it will be out over the tailgate for a shorter turning radius than a long bed.

I always remind my wife; if she had let me get that 1998 Dodge 2500 Cummins that I wanted instead of that Dakota, I'd still be driving it today.

 

[Lineman]

One thing to keep in mind is that the better fuel milage of the half ton trucks often disappears when loaded with 2000 lbs of payload. Check out some of the mpg threads on here. My f250 averages 12 mpg with a fully loaded Grandy.

My wife was also a little unsure about driving a big truck, that lasted about an hour. She has no trouble now. Well she won't drive through Glacier NP, but will drive just about anywhere else.

 

[SignalMtn]

For my 2 cents I agree wholeheartedly with going with the 3/4 ton truck. I don't have any experience in smaller trucks, but After spending this past summer wandering the back country of WY, MT and ID with a Grandby in a SWB F-250 with air bags and pulling a gear trailer, I wouldn't want to downsize. I first thought the Grandby hanging out on the tailgate would bother me, but after a couple of days, it looked like it belonged! 4WD sure was handy too.

 

[CougarCouple]

Hello JohnC
My wife and recently went thru the same what to get questions. I will say you would both be short changing yourselves if you don't spend some time to see the different campers and sit in them. You will see posts here asking an other member may I come see your camper or an owner offering to show their camper. We quickly decided on a camper that needed a truck with a 8 foot bed. The weight adds up fast, we felt that the 3/4 ton vehicle was the smallest we would want. Please tell your wife that it's like anything else in life, yes the truck is larger than a Subaru, after a while she will become comfortable with the different size vehicle. Start with easy open spaces as others have said they drive real nice, I'm sure she will like sitting up hi and seeing over other cars. We are anxiously waiting on our Cougar model, seems that's the hard part.
Russ

ps wife drives a Mazda Miata, has no trouble with our F250 Superduty extended cab Long bed Lariat.

 

[iowahiker]

JohnC, It would be helpful and interesting to hear where you wish to go with a truck/camper (small no maintenance roads, rock climbing, or Alaska+Virginia in the same trip, etc.), for how many days per trip, and how big is your dog (Chihuahua or St Bernard). Truck and camper discussions always result in different opinions so here goes the different:

My heavy half ton, F-150, gets 15-16 mpg for the last 70,000 miles while weighing 1000-2000 pounds less than 3/4 or 1 ton truck and having a smaller engine, 5.0 V-8 versus 6+ liters for 3/4-1 ton gasoline engines. A 3/4 or 1 ton truck with cylinder deactivation, 4 cylinder mode, would get better mpg than my 5.0 V-8 but keeping a larger truck and camper in 4 cylinder mode sounds difficult. We picked a 1/2 ton over a 3/4 ton to carry our camper to get better fuel economy and we our happy with our choice. Both trucks, 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton were the same price new.

My brother-in-law has a Tacoma and on a 270 deg turn his Tacoma turns in less space than my 1/2 ton F-150 when we are out on the small dirt roads. Meanwhile, we love the space of the larger truck/camper and praise the maneuverability of our sub 19 foot long truck. Trucks over 20 feet long require ever more space to turnaround.

Ford licenses a hard side camper for the F-150 extended cab 6 1/2 foot bed so Ford says you would not need air bags to support your camper. Having said that, we have the payload package which gives us a payload of 2800 pounds and our truck carries our camper easily. The "true" payload package is only available on regular cab 8 foot bed or extended cab 8 foot bed or crew cab 6 1/2 foot bed with either the 5.0 V-8 or the 3.5 turbo V-6. Keep in mind, Ford does not think you need the payload package for the extended cab 6 1/2 foot bed and a light camper though I would beef up the truck with a mid tier or better trailer package.

Best truck to take your St Bernard to visit the grand children in Virginia followed by a side trip to Alaska would be a Ford F-150 extended cab long bed with the "true" payload package and 36 gallon gas tank and a Granby (the best transcontinental cruiser).

Best truck to take your chihuahua on decent single track dirt roads would be the Ford F-150 regular cab with the "third seat" removed and the space converted to a chihuahua apartment and the 36 gallon gas tank and a Granby.

Best truck to take your poodle on unknown brush covered "single?" track road up Mt Kilimanjaro would be a Tacoma with heavy after market modifications and a Fleet camper and vallium.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Hi John,
As a happy Eagle shell /Tacoma owner what you buy still depends on how you plan to use it. I bought the Eagle to primarily camp in the winter because I love to explore the western deserts, ghost towns, old shacks, mine sites and remote hot springs AND transport my radio controlled airplanes. We camp an average of 25 nights and transport the planes 80 days per year.

The wife doesn't winter camp so I solo camp in the winter. We summer camp together just sleeping in the Eagle as it really is too small for 2-people. We were campers so we cook and live outside. Our improved shell is perfect for what we use a camper for.

My advice
If your going to do serious couple camping on asphalt spending 2 weeks or more in it at one time buy a hard-sided camper like a Lance on a 3/4 ton truck or a small motorhome. If you want to do offroad buy a 3/4 ton truck and a Grandby or Hawk. Remember FWC campers have no closets and minimal storage. They are built to not come apart on washboard dirt/rock trails while providing minimal creature comforts.

The primary advantage of a truck with a camper vs a motorhome is maintenance costs. Parts for a 3/4 or one ton truck are a lot cheaper than for a 2.5 ton truck chassis. Plus you can remove the camper when your not using it and drive the truck which keep the seals and gears lubricated. Motorhomes only have one use - RVing. So the mechanical parts deteriorate faster thus raising the costs.

Folks buy motorhomes because they want to travel the US moving every few days. Folks buy trailers because they plan to use them as movable cabins. Park them for long periods of time, Folks buy truck campers because they want a comfortable place to live while enjoying outside activities (trailering): boating, horseback riding, dune bugging, Jeeping, etc...then storing everything while using the truck to commute, run errands etc.

Hard-sided campers
Have you ever looked at one. 4-burner stoves with an oven. Microwave. Large clothes closets. Showers/toilets with holding tanks. All the comforts of a motorhome/trailer for 2-4 people. If you like offroading use it to base camp and tow a Jeep.

Pop ups
Less creature comforts. Designed for offroad backcountry travel

You have to decide what you want to use it for.

Hope that helps

 

[Stalking Light]

I have a Tacoma with an Eagle, slightly smaller than the Fleet but not sold any more. My wife and I find it cozy but when we are camping we spend most of our time outdoors so we don't mind the size, even on inclement days it's fine to sit in and read, etc. If you plan on spending a lot of your time inside the camper you will probably want something bigger.

I did change out the tires to E rated, added airbags and upgraded the suspension. I also have a winch and an Aluminess rear bumper so I am probably seriously over weight, but the Taco handles well and the acceleration and braking are fine.

If I decided to get a bigger truck I'd probably also get a flatbed camper, but for now the Tacoma/Eagle combo is just right for what we do. I camp over 120 days/year.

Just my $.02.

 

[JohnC]

To all of you,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful advice and experience. Wow! I have a lot to digest. It will be fun sharing your comments with my wife and seeing where this all shakes out.

We are about five years from retirement. Each of us have been hikers and backpackers since our teens. Our favorite vacations have always been five- or six-day long backpacking trips. Unfortunately, the warranty is expiring on the shocks between my wife's hip bones and pelvis. A few of the springs between my vertebrae are starting to bottom out. Hence, the truck and camper. I also need to point out that our 40 lb. dog is getting a bit grey around the muzzle as well.

Given our preference for wild spaces and solitude, I would like to believe that most of our destinations will end on a dirt or gravel road. More wild camping than park camping. I would hope our use consists of something like one three-day trip a month with at least one four-week and one two week trip a year. Rounding down to account for life and family obligations, let's assume that we end up taking 8-10 trips a year and spend 30-40 nights in the camper. As examples, here are a few of the trips my wife and I dream about taking: (1) camping wild for five days camping off dirt roads at Hart Mt. National Wildlife Refuge and Steens Mountain in SE Oregon, (2) spending three to four weeks camping on BLM land in and around Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument and Arches N.P., (3) a bunch of three-day, two-night trips to any of the state parks on the Oregon Coast, (4) two weeks exploring the nooks and crannies of Vancouver Island, (5) touring New Mexico with a definite multi-day stay at Chaco Canyon National Park.

Based on what you have all shared, here is how my thinking is tilting at the moment:

1) Toyota and Fleet are likely not right for us.
2) F150 and Hawk are in, but explore 250-size truck.
3) Include some sort of payload package to strengthen the suspension.
4) Don't rule out other makes of 1500- and 2500-size trucks.
5) Most importantly, listen to my wife and her concerns and wishes and taken them seriously.

Good stuff. Thank you once again. All of us are so fortunate, aren't we, to have the resources and health and freedom to enjoy wandering the west.

I hope we stumble into each other on some lonely, quite dirt road or empty forest in the middle of nowhere.

Best regards to you all.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

John - one more thing. You mentioned that your wife's " shocks" and your " springs" are wearing out. Another reason to spend the next 5 years going to RV shows and sitting in different campers and smaller class B motor homes. I am age 72 almost 73. I have a herniated disk and wear a back brace. My 73 year old wife needs a knee replacement. We can both get up into the Eagles bed with the help of a stool...so far...in part because the distance from the mattress to ceiling ( I' m 6 foot one inch and can sit up and slide along the mattress ). The Hawk and Grandby distance is lower.

At one time we were considering a NorthStar. We liked the layout of the kitchen/ dining area and the huge storage under the queen size bed....UNTILL we tried getting in the bed. Picture crawling in on knees and elbows and crawling out the same way....And in sleeping position the ceiling was 11 inches away from the tip of my nose. When turning over my shoulder hit the ceiling so I couldn't turn over. That and other concerns made the Four Wheel the right decision for us.

Also buy something where you sleep front to back. Sleeping side to side means inside person has to crawl over the outside person to go to the " bathroom "......(Porta-potty in a Four Wheel.) Both Hawk and Grandby can be configured to sleep front to back.

We also considered A 4 WD class B because the bed is standard bed height. Although the $100 K price tag was too much for us.You need to take into your consideration your future physical shape when u pick. Consider renting small motor homes to try out different configurations. This will give you experience that will help you choose. Cheaper to rent now than buying an expensive rig that won't work as you age.

Good luck on your search

 

[100acrehuphalump]

JohnC, I already had my F-150 and I knew I'd still be pulling an M416 Jeep trailer to lighten some of the truck load hauling my Hawk. Still concerned about the payload I added Add-a-leaf springs and Firestone airbags plus added better shocks and upgraded to E rated tires. If I had a choice I would've jumped on an F-250 and a Grandby. The larger truck for the aforementioned better suspension and more miles from the diesel. For the larger camper for more space, mainly because I'm a big man. Nonetheless, I'm thrilled with what I have. Had I gone with a Grandby model instead of a Hawk, towing would've been difficult unless I extended the tongue hitch length on the trailer. A PITA considering the military type hitch. In my Hawk, I went for the rollover couch due to expense but also for more storage space and it makes another full size bed below, which is great for stealth camping or napping in rest areas on long trips. Both the F-150 and Hawk have done amazingly well on some very crazy off road rock crawling areas of the west. One last concern if considering the F-150 is even though I did some suspension upgrades, it did nothing to help increase the axel capacity or bearings. Best of Luck!
Dan