The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

[pods8]

I can only speak of my own experience, and all of those "cons" are things that either never happened for me or didn't trouble me -- all non-issues for me. Mine just worked...until it died (RIP).


Impulse buy, you could call it. XPMarc offered me an OK deal for an Indel Isotherm he had in stock, so I figured, "why not?".
Trying something different... It looked cool... It's Euro... somethin to do... Impulse buy -- it's only money.

The big question is what would you buy now if starting from scratch?

Here's where I'm at on my thoughts.

Propane has 1 pro: Low propane draw.

Compressor has 1 con: Power source needed, however if you're thinking of a forced air furnance you'll need a decent size battery bank regardless and the low cost of solar (buy the panel yourself, you can get a 120watt panel for $150 right now and a $45 controller, just have your camper prewired) basically mitigates that.


Now for propane cons:
1) Needs to be level, not really an issue while camping because you'll get it good enough for sleeping, it can mean having to find a level parking space when not actually parked for the night while traveling though or risk your stuff warming. Small nag.
2) Pilots do go out, so then you're constantly checking in on whether that has occured. Small nag.
3) Limited temp differential, folks camping in the 100-110 range have reported it no keeping things cold still, yet I know my ARB could still make ice (it can do a 90F temp differential). Sure you can put a fan on the fridge coils to help, but now you've got a 12V draw...
4) Freezer mode? Can't run the whole thing as a freezer if you want, not sure if the front opening compressor fridges can but the top opening ones can, extra use flexibility there.
5) Permantant install, if you do a front opening compressor fridge this is a wash. But with the top opening ones if you set yourself up right you can grab it out of the camper for other uses as well. I plan to put a power plug in the back of our minivan for non-camping road trips.
6) Open flame source. I personally didn't have issue with driving in propane mode but some do and we should all be able to agree that propane fridges SUCK on 12V mode (both in HUGE power draw and further limited cooling ability). Additionally going on a ferry I know they make you turn off your propane so you have to shut off your fridge in instances like that where a compressor fridge would be fine.

Lots of stuff just stack up against propane in my mind when starting from scratch. Cost difference isn't that much assuming you're not talking high mark ups on certain factory options verse really comparing the costs (I have no idea what the factory is asking for stuff these days, with a solar setup and top opening compressor fridge I'd just have the provisions put in and install them myself...). 120watt solar panel $150, $45 controller, and $500-800fridge. A propane fridge runs what about $600-700?

 

[ntsqd]

Cold beer maybe priceless to some, for me since I can't drink it's frozen Popsicle sticks. I dare not even try them in our 3-way.

For a shower we got one of these: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/index.htm Don't recall where, but someone linked it, so they deserve the credit, whomever they are. Have yet to use it, but that will change in a month or so.

 

[MarkBC]

pods8, As I said before, a list of cons that are either rare or irrelevant doesn't convince me...and since you're replying to my post, apparently it's me you're trying to convince.
For example, there are no conditions in which I'd EVER want to have my unit operate only as a freezer...and the other points are similarly rare and/or irrelevant to me.
And that price for the compressor fridge is for a small one or top-loader -- not what I'd ever use, so again not relevant to me.

 

[pods8]

Well I was replying to you but listing the logic also for other readers / OP as to why I feel that way.

You've pointed out the propane use is nice, but still haven't said which way you'd go today if you needed to and why? If would be a useful datapoint.


I think mine was the 1.7cuft 3way which is basically the same size as my 47L ARB.

Looking on FWC they are putting in 1.9 cuft (~54L) 3ways for $795 and 65L DC units for $990. I'd say on a volume basis the pricing is about equal wouldn't you? I'd personally prefer a top loader I could remove for some of the reasons stated above.



Running the whole thing as a freezer is helpful to me to freezer water jugs to feed other coolers (in my case the other coolers could have harvested meat that needs to be cooled and shuffling frozen water jugs can cool meat down). Just one data point/usage. As I said I personally see only 1 upside to a propane fridge presuming you buy your own solar panel/controller.

 

[MarkBC]

...I'd personally prefer a top loader I could remove for some of the reasons stated above.
Not me -- for the same reason I don't use a top-loading fridge in the home: Access to contents is less-convenient. Top-loading DC fridges have that orientation because the designers started with the concept of a top-loading ice-chest, and then came up with a way to not require ice -- refrigeration. Ice chests have to be top-loading because if they were front-loading the ice/water would run out. A compressor cooler isn't an ice chest so doesn't need to be top-loading. Of course the "inconvenience" importance is subjective...but I can't see how top-loading is better. If top-access was an overall more-convenient orientation then home fridges would be top-loading, too.

Before the point of "top-loading more-efficient because the cold air stays in" is brought up, read here where I already explained why that argument isn't valid. (It's physics -- the heat capacity of air is a tiny fraction of the heat capacity of solids/liquids in the cooler, so it doesn't matter if it "falls out")

Remove it? Never...why would I? I cook in the camper so I want the appliances to stay in the camper. I realize others cook outside -- I don't.

Running the whole thing as a freezer is helpful to me to freezer water jugs to feed other coolers (in my case the other coolers could have harvested meat that needs to be cooled and shuffling frozen water jugs can cool meat down).

Again, this doesn't apply to me...because I don't know what I'd do with all the stuff I don't want to freeze while camping if I didn't have the use of a refrigerator, only a freezer. I guess if you had multiple cooling units with you camping...but that doesn't seem like a practical situation.

As I said I personally see only 1 upside to a propane fridge presuming you buy your own solar panel/controller.

Analyzing pro vs con in any situation is not a matter of counting how many are in each column: that's not the way I analyze choices. I weight points for likelihood/risk and importance or they don't count. In other words, one important point in one column can have the power to overwhelm several less-important/less-likely points in the other column.
How much weight is given to each pro/con may be subjective...and that's the point I made several posts ago.
Different subjective weighting to features/qualities explains, for example, why some people believe a water heater is an important camper feature and other people have enjoyable camping without a water heater.
I spent $275 on a Lagun bracket to mount my table. Is it worth it? To me it is...but I wouldn't try to convince somebody else, since it's subjective. Most things are like that.

I realize that my purchase of a DC-compressor fridge doesn't follow a rational rationale...but I never claimed it was rational.

 

[Ted]

Ramblinman,

Depending on the size of fridge and panel you go with it can be done for less than $1000 total. I have this fridge. You can get a 100 Watt panel for under $200 at places like Costco or online at AM Solar, and a controller for about $100. Add a little more for wires, mounting brackets, etc. and you are just under $1000.

Ted

 

[pods8]

Mark, top loading is just my personal preference. A little lost in convience and also harder to get in with the top down. On the perk if can be stuffed better w/o stuff popping out when the door opens. Also I personally have uses where I'd like to pull the unit out of my camper and put it in another vehicle so I personally see that as a perk. I personally have a use for a freezer from time to time and to be that is a perk.

I agree its not a straight number of pros/cons issue. I'm not an idiot. I just don't put much value at all on the little propane usage, esp. in light of being able to do a solar setup for $200, others may. So in my world I say the compressor wins hands down for the reasons I stated.


I'm still confused though and seriously interested. Would you go propane or DC if starting from scratch again, why? All the above was in reference to a top load unit only, they have front loaders in the same exact price ballpark as propane. I gather you value propane running highly from the posts but for you would that have you putting in a propane unit if someone stole your DC unit or such.

 

[MarkBC]

Mark,....
I'm still confused though and seriously interested. ......

If you're seriously interested in hearing yet more of my opinions, let's take it offline rather than continue what has become a distraction from the main point of the OP.

 

[pods8]

PM me if you want, but I was mainly trying to suss out an alternative stance for the propane fridge for the prospective OP since you're one of the few piping up in favor of it. Maybe we're all too jaded on it and it needs its due.

 

[yooper]

Fridges seem to equal problems or money. But then whats the cost of cold beer? Priceless!


I couldn't agree more

 

[Ramblinman]

I seriously have to defer to all of the experience on this forum. I have read over the past year that many have switched from 3 Way to Compressor. That says a lot.

I have only had my Hawk for one summer/fall. So I am not in the know.

This summer I used my camper for 28 nights. The fridge worked well unless I crammed it full or it got extremely warm (but where I am from that is not a usual occurrence.)

My pilot light never went out as I assume it has an auto re-lighter. Fridge always worked as it was level most of the time.

I have never heard of any RV erupting in to flames because of the pilot light - in our society I would imagine someone somewhere would be trying to nix them if they did. Maybe mine works as well as it does because it is a 2010 model.

As much as I want a reliable fridge ... am not sure that it is worth the extra cost of the solar, controller, extra battery etc. I found a 2011 Factory Direct Pricing Worksheet and it lists solar as 995.00. I am thinking in order to compare apples to apples we should look at the FWC Price List.

Also It seems that many of the WTW members camp in sunny Arizona/CA. I have heard that solar needs serious sunlight to be effective, is this true???

When I was planning a new FWC I came to realize that it is easy to let a fridge run my life and my wallet while camping. (I appreciate in hot climates this may be a real concern.)

For me money is an issue. I want to retire one day and I really noticed how the little things add up when FWC Planning. I drive a 15 yr old 1/2 ton chevy that works fine and my FWC was bought used and it sits high (don't care) because it was designed for a 2012 Ford.

I mention this only because I am thinking your average FWC owner is not made of money. How much money should I invest in a rig I only use 28 days a year. This said those that are on the road a lot more and have more resources may not be concerned. Guys I work with buy $60.000 trucks to pull their camper 4-6 days a year (keep in mind we only need the truck to get us there and back and then we usually park)

To the OP: Since your asking ... I think that you seriously have to ask yourself where you will be camping, consider the temperature and climate, how many days a year you will be using you camper and how important cold stuff is to you.

I am thinking if you are going on extended trips for weeks at a time ... there may be an argument for spending big money on your camper ... but if like the average guy you are spending 14 nights in your camper a year keep it simple and spend the money you save on gas, beer, and premium cuts of meat.

Either way ... I am only suggesting that from my 28 night experience (I know that is not a lot) the 3 way for me is a compromise for the money I save and the draw on battery. So Far .......

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Ramblinman,

Depending on the size of fridge and panel you go with it can be done for less than $1000 total. I have this fridge. You can get a 100 Watt panel for under $200 at places like Costco or online at AM Solar, and a controller for about $100. Add a little more for wires, mounting brackets, etc. and you are just under $1000.

Ted

Ted how do you like the truck fridge? I have the portable model and it has been one of the best purchases for the camper.
I still use the 3 way but keep it at the lowest temp to keep things frozen.Works great for the long hauls(3 days+) on the ferry.The truck fridge will hold a good temp and not pull the battery down to far in those days.
Frank

 

[craig333]

I have the same fridge ted has. Its great. I've set mine at 40 and it stays there. The freezer is tiny but it does freeze well. Perfect for a couple steaks to have later. I'll toss my two cents and say I prefer the front loader.

Now back to our original programming.

 

[yooper]

Finally put in my order for a new hawk. I went with the 80 liter 2way fridge, side dinette, and a few other "luxury" options. thanks for all the help and advice. Now I just have to wait till June and it's gonna kill me.

 

[imcolej]

Finally put in my order for a new hawk. I went with the 80 liter 2way fridge, side dinette, and a few other "luxury" options. thanks for all the help and advice. Now I just have to wait till June and it's gonna kill me.


Congrats! I just ordered our Hawk Shell last Wednesday. The wait is killing me too! Sounds like you got some great options.