Thermostat warm-up

Ours may also work fine once it has caught up as you say. And I suppose it could actually be meant to work that way to keep it from cycling on and off too much as it does the initial warm up...who knows. Thanks again for the input; anyone who knows anything about thermodynamics is way ahead of me.
 
Charlie, I have a 2015 Hawk and my stat is mounted in the same location a yours. Mine is fairly responsive with just a bit of lag.

Are you sure it isn't reading accurately for its location? Having said that, I have noticed my camper can be as much as 10 degree warmer at standing head level than at the thermostat's location. Further, materials (wood and plastics) in the bottom half of the camper will remain cooler longer after being "cold soaked" than the atmosphere. The thermostat might be reading/picking up temp from the "cold soaked" cabinets.

Have you ever boarded an airliner after it has sat in the COLD on the ramp all night? It can take 30 minutes, once engines are started, to warm a "cold soaked" airplane up. Yet, the air inside the fuselage is relatively warm. We would set the temp in the cockpit based on our reading. It would show 80'F and we start turning it down to a cooler setting. Minutes later, the flight attendant would ring saying they were still freezing. I think you are seeing the effect of "cold soaked" materials vs atmospheric temp.
 
That's what I have said, I think it's a combination of the cabinets as a heat sink and the smaller amount of air space in the Eagle as opposed to the bigger models. Putting some Reflectix between the thermostat and the cabinet helped as does a small USB fan to circulate the air. I have also read about folks insulating their cabinets, but I haven't gone down that road yet. ;) As a problem, this is certainly one I can live with.
 
It really isn't an insulation issue. Once a material chills to outside air temperature, it is "cold soaked". No amount of insulation will prevent "cold soak", but rather, delay the onset of "cold soak". Of course, a continuous heating source will delay the onset of "cold soak". But, that is practical for most of us and our campers.

I agree, something we can live with in our campers.
 
Kinda of like an "oil thread" and we are beginning to kick the can around the block...

"heat sink'..."cold soak"...flip side of the same coin or if you like think 'cabinet material and camper walls'. In our camper we are trying keep the heat in and not the cold out.

Look, the heat inside escapes to the colder outside through the weak insulation or gaps in the insulation of the camper...how can you mediate that? Put a poor conductor of heat [insulation] between the warm inside and cold outside...or, if you prefer, "flip the coin over" and you use insulation between the cold outside and warm inside to retain the heat in the camper. Think of a Thermos bottle. Whether it is hot or cold water you want to insulate from the outside temp to prevent the inside liquid from either losing or adding heat; you need the insulating layer between the high temp and low temps.

Insulation is not magic. It is based on the type of non heat conducting material [the less conduction the better the insulation] and the thickness of that layer. Yes, reflective surfaces do lessen the absorbing of radiant heat sources; the number one radiant source is solar. Reflective surfaces do not retain heat, they reflect radiant energy. Put bubble wrap between reflective layers does insulate, but only if the bubble wrap, dead air space, is thick enough to make a significant difference in heat loss.

I have ideas for reducing any convective heat loss and for adding insulation without reducing the scarce storage spaces in the camper. But.

In the end heating my Hawk will be akin to heating a slightly insulated tent; terribly energy inefficient and with many temperature layers or pockets of differing temperatures.

I accept that and with the heater blasting and lots of correct bedding or clothing it will be a great refuge from the outside! Beats the snot out of my backpacking tent.... :D

Cheers,
Phil
 
Yes, we can live with it, but I do think the problem lies with the thermostat itself. Maybe it's not designed to work well in really cold temps (18 inside the camper yesterday morning). Or maybe it's just a dud. But here's a pic to illustrate what I mean. The top thermometer has its sensor inside the cabinet and the door is closed. As you can see, it reads 50 degrees while the installed thermostat is showing 21 degrees. And as I understand it, the sensor on the installed thermostat is inside the thermostat itself, not in the cabinet behind. So if anything it should register a reading that is higher than the one reading from inside the cabinet.

No, it's not a problem; it's just that I like things to work as I think they OUGHT to. :) Appreciate all the advice here!


thermo.jpg
 
I agree with Richland...the thermostat should work and reflect the correct temperature ...

My ignorance again, does the temp reading on the thermostat show the temp that it is set at or the inside temp? Is there a function switch from inside to set temp? Would also like to know where the thermostat sensor is for the inside temp and hence the cut-off for the furnace.

What does FWC say about this apparent issue? Stan?

Phil
 
In that pic, the 20 is supposed to reflect the current temp inside the camper. The 60 to the right is the setting at which the furnace should turn off. The sensor is somewhere inside the thermostat unit I believe. (This is based on a pic that DesertDave posted on another thread showing how he replaced the stock stat with a model that has a lower set point. In his pic, there were no openings to the inside of the cabinet so I have to assume the stat and sensor are all self-contained. Please, anyone correct me if I'm mistaken about this).

We likely would have assumed that the stat simply took a really long time to warm up to the correct temp, except that anytime I do a reset of the stat, it immediately comes up to the correct temp.

We haven't contacted FWC about this yet but in reading through various postings it sounds like the lag is not an uncommon issue.

We're headed out on a trip in a few days to (hopefully!) warmer climes so I'll try to keep track of how it operates then and post back.
 
A good thermostat should be measuring the temperature of the surrounding ambient air, not the material that it is mounted to. Just my 2 cents. Ron
 
I wonder if the lag in colder weather could be due to operating it outside its designed temperature range when it first starts.

http://www.emersonclimate.com/documents/white-rodgers/instruction_sheets/0037-6599.pdf

....says the operating range is 32 to 105 degrees (assuming I have the right one). I'm wondering if operating it lower than that at startup causes it to display and operate incorrectly even after its temperature rises into its design range. A reset causes it to start over and it's okay after that..... or so goes my speculation.

If anyone has a way to warm the thermostat to 40 or so before turning it on, you might give it a try and see if the lag is still there. I don't know what to suggest for warming the thermostat. I'd probably take one of my buddy heaters along or perhaps that old 12v defroster from the storage unit. Or a hand-warmer packet. Or battery-warmed clothing.

Just a theory!

-OC
 
d2richland said:
Yes, we can live with it, but I do think the problem lies with the thermostat itself. Maybe it's not designed to work well in really cold temps (18 inside the camper yesterday morning). Or maybe it's just a dud. But here's a pic to illustrate what I mean. The top thermometer has its sensor inside the cabinet and the door is closed. As you can see, it reads 50 degrees while the installed thermostat is showing 21 degrees. And as I understand it, the sensor on the installed thermostat is inside the thermostat itself, not in the cabinet behind. So if anything it should register a reading that is higher than the one reading from inside the cabinet.

No, it's not a problem; it's just that I like things to work as I think they OUGHT to. :) Appreciate all the advice here!


attachicon.gif
thermo.jpg
Click to expand...
That is EXACTLY what mine did the other night. Freaked me out!
I'm going camping this weekend up near Flagstaff. Hoping I can work with this thermostat. Going to try some of the suggestions y'all have posted here (mainly, leaving the cabinet doors open while heating up). The other night when it did this ^ , I also power-cycled the thermostat and it seemed to help.

It also blew like crazy and used up a lot more propane than normal.
 
OC, that made perfect sense to me even though the model I have is different (doesn't have the cooling feature) and I was all set to test again tomorrow using the milk barn heater and warming it up, then I ran across a review on Amazon for the exact same stat that I have. Here's what mcavs had to say:



11 of 14 people found the following review helpful
stars-4-0._CB192240704_.gif
Works, with a quirk, September 22, 2011


By
mcavs



Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Emerson 1E78-140 Emerson 70 Series Single Stage Non-Programmable Heat Only Thermostat (Tools & Home Improvement)
Changed my mechanical t-stat in a new travel trailer to this digital one. I had 2 portable thermometers in the TT, one in the front and one in the back, and this t-stat is in the middle. They all 3 read exactly the same temp, which is good. When I first fired up the furnace on an outing this weekend is when I noticed the quirk, which may be a quirk with all digital t-stats in such a small area. The temp in the TT was reading 62 on all 3 thermometers so I fired up the furnace and set it to 68 then went outside with our friends. I came back in about 30 minutes later because I noticed the furnace was still running and found the inside of the TT to be 82 as registered on the 2 portable thermometers. The t-stat read 67. At first I thought the t-stat was bad so I shut it down and left it. I went back in the TT about an hour later and the thermometer on the t-stat registered 76.

I came to the conclusion it takes the digital t-stat a little longer to register the true ambient room temp when you are increasing the current temp by more than just a degree or two. So, I played a little and found the t-stat works flawlessly if you keep the room within a couple of degrees but if you want to increase it by as much as 5 degrees you need to get the room AND t-stat to the desired room temp first before it will control the temp accurately."



So bottom line for me is that I'll turn on the furnace and when it warms up just do the reset as needed. And maybe consider a replacement if it gets to bugging me TOO much.
 
I'm having this exact problem on my 2015 Eagle. So you're saying I can turn the heater on and get it up to 50 degrees. Once I have it to a warm temp.... Reset the thermostat, and it should then read the correct temperature?
 
RyanOBrian1
Yes, my experience is that a reset brings it up to current temp, whether that is done at 50 or whatever. But if you reset at 50 and actually want it to shut off at 60, it will continue to lag until it gets to the set temp of 60. Hope that makes sense.
 
I know FWC has used different thermostats and even heaters.

Can anyone tell me which brand/model of thermostat and heater they are currently installing?

Thanks, for all the valuable input on this topic.

Phil
 
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