Total Noobs, doing it all wrong

[daverave]

Hi Wanderers! Just joined WTW yesterday, here's our story....
My wife and I have been long-time outdoor enthusiasts based in California. Constant backpackers, mostly in the Sierra of course but even when we travel we arrange for at least a couple of backpacks. For example, just went to Scandinavia for a month this fall and did 5 days of backpacking (brrrr...) We also do our fair share of car camping out random dirt roads in the west. We've got a DV trip planned for the spring, love it there. All of the domestic trips were done in a Ford Explorer Sport, 2D, 4WD (we've had two) which we have several times lived out of for up to a month with a hotel stay now and then to get the stank off.

Our game plan/dream has always been to get an RV to live out of in our "golden" years and just last weekend we started getting serious about figuring it all out. We thought our perfect vehicle would be a Sportsmobile although the price is daunting. We went to a used RV lot and were surprised at the low quality for Class B/C rigs, then went to a big RV dealer and realized that didn't work for us either because whatever we are driving has to be pretty NIMBLE and off-pavement capable. Then we discovered that we live in a great place for pop-up camper shopping although we then also realized just how little we know. The language and gear and permutations of possible camper configurations are mind boggling.

So despite that we made a pilgrimage just up the road to FWC on Friday, went for a day hike in the burned out Cache Creek wilderness, then got a morning tour from Marty at ATC yesterday, then looked around the local CarMax in the afternoon. Short story short, today we bought a low-mileage, 2013 Ford F-150, extended (not Crew) cab, 4WD, 6.5 foot bed. There are not a lot of F-150s in that configuration available in the region. It's gotta work with something from FWC or ATC, amirite??

Right now we are thinking that tonight we will go through the FWC literature and price sheet, read more WTW threads, get a basic game plan, and go up to Woodland again tomorrow morning to spend the day fine-tuning while trying to beat the 12/1 price increase to save two grand. If that doesn't work out, I could see us ending up at ATC.

It doesn't seem that many members here are quite this spontaneous about putting their rig together. We on the other hand figure the best way to learn is by doing while not letting the perfect being the enemy of the good. We will both turn 62 this year, will both be retired, and are anxious to get on with the next phase of our lives together. We'd love to get our camper for our late March DV shakedown trip.

Not sure the point of this post other than to ask the venerable WTW members, particularly FWC owners, if there are any really obvious rookie mistakes that they wish they had avoided, or upgrades they wished they had, that they can share with us. Thanks!

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

IMO,and I have to be partial here,I would suggest ATC.It's the same or better quality,they will work with you to get the camper you want and the cost is less.
Not "cheaper"just less due to their company.
I have had a Bobcat since 2009 and have traveled over 44k miles with it.
It fits our needs and the price was right.
Yes there is a lot to digest about our campers but you came to the right site for info.
Feel free to ask questions we will all try to help.
Welcome to the group and have fun ordering your camper.
Frank

Again IMO the musts to have.
Heater.
lift assist struts.
a dinette (side or front) I have a side.
Do solar your self if you can.

 

[craig333]

Welcome to WTW Your story is pretty familiar. What kind of budget are you working with?

 

[Ace!]

Welcome.

 

[Shadyapex]

Be prepared for a wide range of responses on this query!
My 2 cents.
Get the smallest camper you can be comfortable in rather than the largest you think the truck will handle. You're used to tent time so even an Eagle, which is what I have, will feel spacious. And the truck will handle better, there are a lot of over loaded trucks out there, mine used to be one.
Don't bother with the second battery if you value storage capacity. Just replace the light bulbs with LEDs.
If you don't really need a furnace and want the storage then consider getting a Mr. Heater or something instead. But always keep the vent a little open when you use it. This is what we do and can be comfortable in T-shirts in 30 degree weather.
For us a real fridge, stove top and sink were important as we like to cook real food.
The inability to make coffee with the bed extended was annoying at first but then we just tossed a Jetboil in the cabinet and now have coffee in bed. Collapse bed, make breakfast.
Depending on what camper you get you might want to add air bags to the suspension and get some adjustable shocks. I got the Boss All Oil adjustable damping shocks and this improved the handling a great deal. The air bags can also be used to fine tune the camper's level.
Get E rated tires for the truck, especially as you said you're planning a Death Valley trip.
Just get one, you'll love it. I wanted a sportsmobile for a long time but after building interiors in several vans over the years and not being able to go where I wanted to and having to do it all over again every time the vehicle wore out we went with a FWC. When the truck needs replacing, install new truck.

 

[alano]

People get anything from a bare-bones shell model to a fully-loaded all the goodies model and everything in between. A lot depends on your budget and camping style. You are experienced campers so you should have a pretty good idea of what you want out of the rig. Keep in mind that goodies usually mean convenience but they cost $ and take up space whether you want/need it that trip or not. A furnace (one of the most popular options BTW) is just dead weight and space filled on a summer trip.

That said, our Hawk is pretty loaded and we can stop, set-up and crack a beer in about 15 minutes. This is important to us since we tend to move around a lot and don't like to spend a lot of time getting things ready or packing them up. We also don't have space hungry hobbies that demand plenty of storage so we traded space and money for time.

Everyone has the same basic needs while camping: heat, food, water, waste, cleaning, entertainment (everything from lights to surfboards to computers) and we all meet those needs in our own way. Mostly what we share in common is a strong desire to go "out there" where ever "there" is and an equally strong aversion to sleeping on the ground.

Welcome and let us know what you decided.

Alan

 

[daverave]

Welcome to WTW Your story is pretty familiar. What kind of budget are you working with?

Hard question to answer really, Craig. The only budget we are working with is the one that we constantly impose on ourselves; i.e., we can probably afford anything within reason but we will always have and always will count our pennies. We maintain fiscal discipline while not being afraid to splurge when it is worth it.

 

[billharr]

My 2 cents. Both FWC and ATC make great campers. That said they are not just the same anymore, but both will work camping. More like two different car brands make your choice.

What are your skills and abilities? If you can do some work yourself a shell is a great way to get started without a big out lay of cash. If you do not feel comfortable buy everything you want up front it will be cheaper than adding later.

My list of must haves.

• Heater
• Lift struts
• Solar min 200w and 2 batteries
• Compressor Fridge
• Stove and sink

Dinette and and other items I feel are personal preference. I like the side dinette we have. Just depends how you camp.

Check out the thread on Camper Builds to see what others have done.


And welcome to WTW you will find lots of great information and help here.

 

[buckland]

Here I am again... I bought the Eagle in 2011... like you always a camper ...Eagle is great. Attached what I bought with... no regrets on anything. I did my own solar (on tripod ...with external wall plug ...easy to move around and stay in sun with good angle) added a second battery as well. The roof racks were not so good for me so I took them off and put on the Yakima...way better in many ways.
Like my daddy said... "all decisions are made on insufficient data and sometime ya gotta test the water with both feet"

 

[Tuff Guy 62]

IMO,and I have to be partial here,I would suggest ATC.It's the same or better quality,they will work with you to get the camper you want and the cost is less.
Not "cheaper"just less due to their company.
I have had a Bobcat since 2009 and have traveled over 44k miles with it.
It fits our needs and the price was right.
Yes there is a lot to digest about our campers but you came to the right site for info.
Feel free to ask questions we will all try to help.
Welcome to the group and have fun ordering your camper.
Frank

Again IMO the musts to have.
Heater.
lift assist struts.
a dinette (side or front) I have a side.
Do solar your self if you can.

Yea, what Frank said.

Jeff & Marty at ATC are the best. They'll build exactly what you want and your dealing directly with the guys who will be building your camper. Total build time for our rig was six weeks vs 14 for the other guys.

Whichever way you decide you can't wrong with either FWC or ATC.

We love our ATC Panther. At 84" wide there is tons of interior space to move around. Our 2000 1/2 ton Silverado 1500 handles the camper very well with a set of Firestone airbags.

 

[daverave]

We are leaning towards the furnace because even in the dead of summer up on Bodie Mountain or on the north coast it can get pretty darn cold. Struts also seem to be a must.
The dinette makes sense so that we can spread out the board games, just to humble me. On the other hand, I foresee the day, pretty soon, when I sleep down at that level because I don't want to climb down from the loft so the dinette area must be convertible for sleeping. I've had bilateral hip replacements BTW.
The water and waste issues seem to be most fundamental. The whole graywater and blackwater management will be completely new territory compared to our history of tent camping. We've done a lot of river trips so don't have a problem with the porta-potty concept and the cassette seems an even cleaner system. Again I suppose it comes down to how any system impacts overall storage, which is part of the reason we got the extended cab. I can fit a lot of cases of beer back there ;-)

 

[DrJ]

+1 on Bill's comments

I'm on to my 3rd FWC and am very impressed with the upgrades that have been made in the last 5 years.
I've visited both factories and made my last decision to stay with FWC after that last visit. However, if I wanted a custom camper I would have considered ATC or Alaskan or Hallmark.

This conversation will quickly become a Ford vs Chevy debate.

So all I can really tell you is that I bought a 2015 Grandby and I've been very happy with it. And it's parked on a Chevy.

 

[Ace!]

Here is one of my thoughts after wanting only a shell. My wife started asking me what I would want if I could get "my" ultimate camper. It had a lot of options, it was my ultimate camper. Then she asked why I wouldn't get exactly what I wanted. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that there isn't any reason to get what I don't want. So, after considering it for a few days, I just ordered every option that I thought I would really use, not the most basic of sleeping areas (shell). So, I'd buy the furnace, stove, refrigerator and dual batteries.

Edited to add: I was an avid ultralight backpacker. I had a bivy, wanted slightly more room, a 2-person tent to hold a little extra gear and weight. Maybe I didn't pack quite as far. Then I realized having more room was better, maybe a place to cook in the rain, etc., etc., etc. So, now, after thinking I needed nothing more than an OR Alpine Bivy I'm camping in a Hawk on the back of "my" ultimate 4x4. Might as well live in comfort as long as you can as opposed to "roughing" it any longer than you need.

 

[ski3pin]

<snip>

This conversation will quickly become a Ford vs Chevy debate.

I don't believe so because the original question was -

"Not sure the point of this post other than to ask the venerable WTW members, particularly FWC owners, if there are any really obvious rookie mistakes that they wish they had avoided, or upgrades they wished they had, that they can share with us. Thanks!"

and not what camper to buy.

It is nice, though, to hear the responses from enthusiastic owners.

now back to the question.......................

 

[billharr]

We are leaning towards the furnace because even in the dead of summer up on Bodie Mountain or on the north coast it can get pretty darn cold. Struts also seem to be a must.
The dinette makes sense so that we can spread out the board games, just to humble me. On the other hand, I foresee the day, pretty soon, when I sleep down at that level because I don't want to climb down from the loft so the dinette area must be convertible for sleeping. I've had bilateral hip replacements BTW.
The water and waste issues seem to be most fundamental. The whole graywater and blackwater management will be completely new territory compared to our history of tent camping. We've done a lot of river trips so don't have a problem with the porta-potty concept and the cassette seems an even cleaner system. Again I suppose it comes down to how any system impacts overall storage, which is part of the reason we got the extended cab. I can fit a lot of cases of beer back there ;-)

How tall are you ? If you can sleep across a front dinette will give you the best lower sleeping without eating up floor space. This is another personal preference item. Try both at FWC and then your choice.

 

[longhorn1]

Welcome to WTW. You can't go wrong with either ATC or FWC. We have a fully loaded FWC Grandby, F250 8' bed, crew cab. 2 AGM batteries, 100W solar on the roof and portable 80W, 80L fridge. We camp 60% off grid and I use a CPAP machine and have never had an issue with power.

We couldn't travel out west, but had a FWC Distributor close by in Wisconsin, so we visited and placed an order. JD



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[N'kwala]

If I'm not mistaken, ATC includes screen doors on all models and FWC regards them as optional. I agree about the furnace -- it really is pretty nice to have, but I'd say a screen door is a must. I'd agree on the struts, but that is from the perspective of a rather small and not very strong individual. And the solar cell opens a lot of options.

Enjoy, in any case.

 

[97grandby]

I.m on my 2nd fwc grandby and have really enjoyed them. Mine are a bit older so they look almost exactly what atc makes now. I really like them. The furnace is nice but my first fwc didn't have one and it wasn't a bit deal. A wave catalytic heater kept me warm in 20 degree weather no problem. Much smaller and no power draw. I had an ice box on both campers but upgraded to a compressor fridge and so far it's a nice upgrade. I added 2 12v batts so I don't really worry about power. Atc is great to work with. I have some things I want added so they gave me a a very fair bid on some work done. About half what fwc bid. They can add almost anything afterwords so I wouldn't stress to much about making a wrong choice. You can always add most things latter. Welcome to the club.


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[daverave]

How tall are you ? If you can sleep across a front dinette will give you the best lower sleeping without eating up floor space. This is another personal preference item. Try both at FWC and then your choice.

I'm a shade over 6'-0" tall. We like the feel of the side dinette though. I think that it can convert to a bed but not sure of the length.

I completely agree with Shadyapex about getting 'the smallest camper you can be comfortable in rather than the largest you think the truck will handle." Good advice.

Gonna figure it all out tomorrow morning, at least temporarily

We really appreciate everyone's input. WtW is an invaluable resource with smart users. In a few years maybe I'll be one too!

 

[smlobx]

First of all welcome to wtw!
I really don't believe there is a perfect camper for most people. Everything is a trade off between space, weight and cost.
Like you, we came from a backpacking background and as we got older decided having a little more amenities was a good thing.

I believe that many of the top tier builders (atc, FWC, Alaskan and Hallmark) will provide you with a quality build. What some consider an option others include it as standard so pay attention to that. For us we wanted several amenities and found that Hallmark fit our wish list.

We ordered the following:

North/South bed
200 watts of solar with a second battery to allow us to stay off the grid for a while
Side dinette (which is standard)
Fridge, 3 burner cooktop and sink
Cassette toilet

As well as a few other items