Truck ownership philosophy

[craig333]

Not only is vehicle repair not as much fun anymore, I have to look over my shoulder every time I pop the hood. Not sure I have a "philosophy". This truck I bought new, my first and probably only new vehicle, only because it wasn't much more than a used truck at the time (not sure if thats still true). I spend so much time and money modifying my vehicles to just turn around and sell at a whim.

I go for function over form. I could put a lift on my truck, I think a mild lift would look good but I don't need one and it won't help reliability.

With the benefit of hindsight I probably wouldn't go diesel again. I love mine but the economics just don't pencil out. Fairly happy with the lack of options on my truck but I do wish I had electric windows, mainly to keep the dog happy!

 

[iowahiker]

My truck philosophy: our truck is a "tool".

1. The tool must be the "right" size. A V-8 diesel has too much hauling capacity for only a FWC. A non-turbo V-6 too little. A heavy duty 1 ton is too much payload. A 1/2 ton extended cab short bed too little (we will not go over GVWR). "Right" size: Ford F-150 payload package regular cab. We get a 4x4 because we live in the hilly snow belt and 2 wheel drive has proven unable to climb a snow covered hill.

2. The tool must be reliable since we travel coast to coast. Higher mileage used trucks would require repairs on the road so only low mileage used or new will be a reliable tool. We depreciate a new vehicle at a rate of $1000 per year (model year less current year) and $ 0.10 per mile. No "right" size used vehicles were available with less than 30,000 miles and a less than 3 years old at a depreciated price better than new and so we purchased new on our recent tool.

3. The tool is a "tool", i.e we hate chrome. We purchased mostly new base-trim/work trucks with vinyl floors (we sweep our truck out weekly and never vacuum the tool.

4. The reliable tool evolves to a run-about when the reliability becomes suspect which evolves to a beater for hauling firewood which evolves to a junk yard death, i.e. we do not sell/trade and so have three trucks. If purchased new every 7-8 years while traveling 18,000 miles per year, this works out. We budget $4-5000 per year for eventually purchasing a truck. The last four trucks cost us $24,000 (new), $15,000 (lightly used), $21,000 (new), and $28,000 (new). We only carry collision and comprehensive insurance on the reliable trip tool.

5. Another aspect of "right" sizing was we wanted 15 mpg or better so bigger gasoline V-8's were not a choice. Very poor fuel economy would discourage us from using the tool. So far, we run 15-16 mpg with our 5.0 V-8.

6. Another aspect of "right" sizing was fitting in our 8 foot tall garage door to keep the tool dry and durable since the camper is not removed from the tool.

We will never look back wishing we had more torque or more chrome or a bigger/better/taller "tool", but we will smile looking back at all the places we have visited, coast-to-coast, corner-to-corner with the "right tool".

 

[Maureen]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site, so thanks for sharing your wisdom! After years of trial and error, (VW Westfalia, Coleman Pop-up, Class C Motorhome, Dodge conversion van) I've decided to check out the world of Pop-up campers- very excited about the possibilities, but the budget is limited. Thinking of a 2001 Toyota Tacoma V6 Prerunner with an All-Terrain camper. Advice? Ideas?

Also, if anyone in the Albuquerque/ New Mexico area has an ATC Pop-up I can take a look at, and pick your brain about, let me know. Many thanks to all of you for your spirit of adventure. Happy trails!

Maureen in ABQ

 

[Bigfoot]

It's a hypothetical question in that RVs are not cost effective. We can rationalize all we want but the bottom line is that we use them because of the vehicle-oriented lifestyle, not because of philosophy or economics.

Most people in the RV market buy travel trailers or motor homes. Truck campers appeal mainly to a small segment that values versatility above all else, and popup TCs are an even smaller segment. The middle of the bell curve for TC owners is made up of individuals or couples who are outdoor fans and who are part of the (shrinking) middle class.

Beyond that it is a matter of preference and situation. Brand, features, new or used, we do whatever fits us. Sometimes we choose the truck and camper, sometimes they choose us. Many have reached our current TC after using other RVs that were not quite right. Personally, I like new with minimal mods because I decided long ago that vehicle DIY did not interest me. YMMV.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Just noticed this thread! Then there are people like me-once I had a full time job-I bought new rigs very time and took good care of them. I bought a 70VW in 1970-drove it until 1980, then bought a 1980 Toyota long bed 4x4! Drove that until 1999, then bought a 99 F150 4x4 and am still driving it with a 2005 Granby full time on it. I tend to by things new and spend the money up front and go from there. Maybe this comes from all those years of trying to keep my old 1950 ford, 1956 ford and 1961 VW running ! After re-reading this thread, I agree with allot of what is said-our experience, needs and money determine what we buy, use and dream of. Me-I still have/use my first deer rifle-a modified Springfield 1903 with Redfield peep sites , I always buy Carthhart/Levi clothes and Redwing/Wolverine boots and shoes, Kelty packs-things like that-spend what you need to do what you need to do-if somethings works why change !

Smoke

 

[Rdy2Roam]

I am also new to this site and love all the info and experience every one shares on here. I am planning on buying a new f350 next year when I retire and slide a new Alaskan camper on to it. My only problem is trying to figure out if I should go with a utility body for the extra storage. I dont like the box shape of the basic utility box so was thinking of a custom made box lots of planning to do and research.

 

[craig333]

Camper on a utility bed is my dream. I like to carry too much stuff already though and that'd just feed that addiction! Its practical, who cares what it looks like.

 

[srileo]

Iowahiker,
superb articulation of your mindset. I love how thorough and consistent you are with your world view - it reflects inner values as well as outer resolution. I also noted how your thinking translates into purchase decisions, and then into the real-world maintenance and finally, the evolution of the vehicle role from new to condemnation. Very thoughtful.

My truck philosophy: our truck is a "tool".

1. The tool must be the "right" size. A V-8 diesel has too much hauling capacity for only a FWC. A non-turbo V-6 too little. A heavy duty 1 ton is too much payload. A 1/2 ton extended cab short bed too little (we will not go over GVWR). "Right" size: Ford F-150 payload package regular cab. We get a 4x4 because we live in the hilly snow belt and 2 wheel drive has proven unable to climb a snow covered hill.

2. The tool must be reliable since we travel coast to coast. Higher mileage used trucks would require repairs on the road so only low mileage used or new will be a reliable tool. We depreciate a new vehicle at a rate of $1000 per year (model year less current year) and $ 0.10 per mile. No "right" size used vehicles were available with less than 30,000 miles and a less than 3 years old at a depreciated price better than new and so we purchased new on our recent tool.

3. The tool is a "tool", i.e we hate chrome. We purchased mostly new base-trim/work trucks with vinyl floors (we sweep our truck out weekly and never vacuum the tool.

4. The reliable tool evolves to a run-about when the reliability becomes suspect which evolves to a beater for hauling firewood which evolves to a junk yard death, i.e. we do not sell/trade and so have three trucks. If purchased new every 7-8 years while traveling 18,000 miles per year, this works out. We budget $4-5000 per year for eventually purchasing a truck. The last four trucks cost us $24,000 (new), $15,000 (lightly used), $21,000 (new), and $28,000 (new). We only carry collision and comprehensive insurance on the reliable trip tool.

5. Another aspect of "right" sizing was we wanted 15 mpg or better so bigger gasoline V-8's were not a choice. Very poor fuel economy would discourage us from using the tool. So far, we run 15-16 mpg with our 5.0 V-8.

6. Another aspect of "right" sizing was fitting in our 8 foot tall garage door to keep the tool dry and durable since the camper is not removed from the tool.

We will never look back wishing we had more torque or more chrome or a bigger/better/taller "tool", but we will smile looking back at all the places we have visited, coast-to-coast, corner-to-corner with the "right tool".

 

[srileo]

Koluckum
It is your hindsight ("should have gottena full size truck") that really is interesting. It means that your initial assumption ("i can make do with a smaller truck") was wrong or whether the needs change is an underlying factor....

It all depends on your budget. I did't have a large budget when I got my set up, truck for 7k and FWC camper for 3k. Used the rest of the money to travel. Granted the truck is older with a lot of miles but relatively easy to maintain and I am pretty good with vehicles. Plus when I dent the truck I don't feel as bad.

In hindsight I would have got a full size truck as the gas mileage would have been almost the same and I would have gotten more room.

 

[srileo]

I am the same as you - never buy new. But i come from a different reason for that: being new to this country, everything in my initial life here was in a state of flux - no set budgets, no set expectations, or desires. Therefore, i always bought well used to hedge against a failure of my understanding- because i never knew if anything i purchased would pan out to be what i thought it would be. All my cars, motorcycles and truck were bought used and sold within a matter of a few years as my needs changed (marriage, kids, moving on). Now that i am turning 40 and can afford any vehicle i want, i am considering the merits of buying new - but it still doesnt make sense for me until i am 100% sold that a truck camper will hold my interest until the end of its life.

I guess, in a sense, i have a wandering eye when it comes to recreation, and that will mean i can never invest into anything brand new.

I don't buy new. The depreciation when the front tires first touch the street is too much for me. Plus, I haven't seen a new vehicle that interested me enough to consider buying it since 1984. Today's new vehicles are simply too complicated. I see every one of those undesired, unnecessary "features" as a failure mode. Their failure may not stop us in our tracks, but as interconnected as late models are I'm not willing to risk it. I know of vehicles that have failed a CA smog test because some unrelated system was tied into the Check Engine light. If the OEM's will do that, what else have they done?

I'm much more comfortable looking a rig over for potential issues and fixing them before they become a problem. I keep vehicles until they A) loose my interest or B ) have outlived their usefulness to us. Like anyone, I make the best purchase that I can find at the time for my initial budget, but understand that I'll be spending money for a while on the "why we now own it's". After all the PO sold it for a reason, the first couple months are always steep in learning why.

 

[srileo]

Computers I'm good at. Trucks not so much...... New for me

Ditto for me. Except that i will still buy used and constantly search for a capable, low-priced shade tree mechanic

 

[Vic Harder]

"The middle of the bell curve for TC owners is made up of individuals or couples who are outdoor fans and who are part of the (shrinking) middle class."

I think most of us in the middle class are growing, not shrinking. If you are losing weight, I want to know your secret!

 

[PokyBro]

This is a great discussion, and very interesting to hear everyone's views and "philosophy" for ownership, varied and respected.

Along the way, my wife and I purchased only two new vehicles, a 1981 Chevy Citation, which I was so proud of when new, but when it wore out at just 106K, not so proud. At the time of purchase, I was just out of college. Then a 1994 Chevy Suburban, which we paid cash for. One year later, that brand new shiny Suburban was broadsided, giving us the choice to total it and spend another 1/3 the original price for another new one, or have it it repaired and keep it. We chose the later, but it was never the same.

When that Suburban was replaced, it was with a new to us, 2 year old, 2004 Suburban with 79K miles on the clock, but only half of the price of new. We sold it last year with 238K miles on it.

I hadn't had a pickup truck for 20 years, and as my kids were mostly raised, all 6 of them, I decided it was time. As I have a company car, I was happy to get a used pickup. My choice was a 1999 F250, crew cab, short bed, 7.3 powerstroke diesel, with a 6 speed manual transmission, and 223K miles on it. I always wanted a diesel, and kind of didn't make sense to have this big old beast, but you know what, I consider it therapy to drive it! Love the sound, love to shift the gears, love the power, and actually learning about a diesel motor, and making a few repairs has been a positive experience. In coming up to three years of ownership, I've spent minimal amounts to keep it going and in making it better than when I got it. It is the most fun to drive out on the highway, and believe it or not, out in the hills. Yup!

This acquiring, a new to me truck play-toy, led me to get first a shell for the bed, and then a FWC fixer-upper, that soon will be another part of my therapy. Not new, but still, for now both providing a lot of satisfaction. Would I prefer brand new for both, and just get in and go, you bet! But for my needs and my budget at this time, this arrangement works. Soon enough, it will be get in and go. And together, they led me to this forum, and a fine bunch of folks who share their experiences, passions, expertise, and friendship, as in this thread.

Thanks for starting it srileo!




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[Squatch]

My last 3 new trucks all had a major out of the box problems the dealers couldn't fix. At least one. 2 were quickly traded one was bought back under lemon law. My philosophy is that with new vehicles these days we are paying obscene money to be a prototype tester for the factories. The failure issue on my last truck was a brake feature that didn't come on the trucks till mid year the following model year.HMMM!?

I've owned a couple of nice houses that didn't cost as much as a new truck these days! An awful lot of that money pays for crap I don't even want or need. I have no use for vehicles that constantly broadcast your GPS whereabouts. Or that need constant software upgrades.

I'll drive my old junk till I can't. Then I'll get another older truck.

 

[srileo]

Wow, that must have been majorly painful. Would love to hear what the other problems were on the trucks.

Yea, software is eating the world, and our trucks too. Working in the tech industry, i am hopeful for what the software does, but I fear that auto companies don't quite have the discipline with software that software-only companies do.

My last 3 new trucks all had a major out of the box problems the dealers couldn't fix. At least one. 2 were quickly traded one was bought back under lemon law. My philosophy is that with new vehicles these days we are paying obscene money to be a prototype tester for the factories. The failure issue on my last truck was a brake feature that didn't come on the trucks till mid year the following model year.HMMM!?

I've owned a couple of nice houses that didn't cost as much as a new truck these days! An awful lot of that money pays for crap I don't even want or need. I have no use for vehicles that constantly broadcast your GPS whereabouts. Or that need constant software upgrades.

I'll drive my old junk till I can't. Then I'll get another older truck.

 

[Squatch]

SRILEO you aksed for it!
1st was a 2000 Durango. Problems with every system on the truck except engine from day one. I got recalls for years on the stuff the dealer couldn't fix after it was gone. We named it Christine. I would park it in the garage at night.and turn everything off at the switches. Go back into the garage later and the truck had turned on lights and such! The alarm system regularly locked me out of the truck every few days. Got recalls for the front diff bolts being only hand tight, No grease in ball joints, and lot's more. At 10 months the rotors were warped so bad the truck shook on the highway. I traded it. While we were signing the deal we heard the alarm go off. I looked at my wife and said keep signing!

It was replaced with a 2000 Isuzu Trooper. (my 2nd Trooper) It was a good truck except one major issue which nobody knew what it was back then. At 60k miles the engine started using a qt of oil every 600 miles. I'm a maintenance fanatic. I now know the problem was an engine design defect. They had not drilled enough oil return holes in the pistons under the oil rings. This caused the rings to compress and get stuck in the lands and cease to function. it was traded.

On a LATE 2004 Nissan Titan. I bought it with the hope of getting a 4WC for it. Great truck except for brake issues from day one. There was a known issue of too small rotors. They were working on a fix for that. But I had an issue with the brake pedal falling to the floor. No leaks. 3 different dealers couldn't find the problem. I had to drive home from work twice using the parking brake. I found that it had "Brake Assist" on it. This is the computer added braking in panic stops. This feature didn't come on these trucks till mid 2005 model year. I'm convinced it was a pre-production prototype. These are the cars they use to test installing new stuff on the assembly line. The truck sat at a dealer for 4 months while I made payments waiting for factory help to repair. I had to buy a cheap beater just to get to work. That $1,500 clapped out Honda Civic was more reliable than all 3 put together. I put 100,000 miles on it and sold it for what I paid for it. The truck was bought back under Lemon Law. I lost 10's of thousands of dollars on these vehicles in a short time.

As a general rule with a couple of exceptions I found the dealers to be incompetent and liars at every turn.
When I pay 20,30,40K$ for a new vehicle I expect it to be right or be made that way quickly. Yes I have a somewhat higher standard for expensive new cars than old used beaters. But sadly I've found that the beater often perform to a higher standard.

These trucks replaced a 1988 Isuzu Trooper that had been flawless. 12 years and 300 miles of hard use. Just plain worn out. While the Titan was in the shop I found a used one with low miles on CL for $1,500. I bought it and did a frame off resto on it.
http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=12172
http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43909

I'm still driving it. I've towed my boat all over the eastern 1/2 of the country with it. I'm quickly closing in on 100K miles since I bought it. That was 2006. This truck led to the "Moon Truck" project.

 

[SeatoSea]

Interesting
I would say after many journeys on this continent and off, from VW's hacked together from junk yards, engines blowing gaskets, Chevy, Ford, Toyota's, work trucks to moving trucks, even high end SUV's, whatever the choice, how lucky we are!!! Enjoy every minute of the decisions. See you on the road and don't hesitate to wave me down for help or just a cup of joe...


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[Boise]

When I bought my 97 F250 Powerstroke I never imagined I would have it 19 years and 280,000 miles later. About seven years ago I committed to just keeping it for life. I bought a code-reader and have since done absolutely all the repairs myself--with the help of 'google'. When the Powerstroke came on scene the 7.3 idi guys said the new engine is too complicated to work on. Sound familiar? The hydraulic electronically fire injectors were new, and sensors were on just about everything reporting back to the ecu. A computer person, myself included, could work with sensors. If you are willing to do more than scratch the surface with maintenance a person can do enough to keep a vehicle in top shape. I would drive my truck anywhere with confidence, the confidence of knowing 'the guy' who has done the mechanical work. That being said, wrenching is not for everyone.

The most important thing, no matter what year, is picking the truck that fits your needs. A diesel really fits my needs, living and hauling in the mountains sometimes initially a 4 horse gooseneck. I like a manual gearbox too. The big advantage of a manually geared diesel is that with high compression a truck can be down-shited to 'brake' winding down a mountain road. Some new automatics have a hill mode but what I have noticed is just higher rpms, no 'braking'. The mileage adds up too, over 280,000 miles.
In another 20 years perhaps the 97 Powerstroke last of the Old Body Style will be a classic.

So once you find a truck that fits your needs make sure to be timely with fluid changes as someone else suggested. I would swear by synthetic oils and so will most truck manufacturers. If I had to buy a new truck I wouldn't know where to begin, I think only Dodge has the manual transmission option. I think I would go with a heavy 3/4 ton. I have plans to revisit the baja and I hear that a new diesel would not run on Mexican diesel.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

<snip>
So once you find a truck that fits your needs make sure to be timely with fluid changes as someone else suggested. I would swear by synthetic oils and so will most truck manufacturers.
<snip>

I'm note sure if this is accurate, but the service manager at my Ford dealer recommended not using fully synthetic oil on my 7.3, then going for longer intervals between changes because of combustion moisture building up in the oil and changing the firing point of the hydraulically fired injectors. Great engine though!

 

[Squatch]

Yep knowing your truck and what makes it tick can provide a lot of peace of mind on the road and trails. Basic repair knowledge counts for a lot when you need it.