Upsizing

[clikrf8]

We have a 2011 FWC Eagle atop a 1999 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 extended cab. We were warned by you folks that we would outgrow our camper/truck for several reasons. This became evident when we started hauling the dog with us. Also, several of you pointed out that braking and load capacity would be weak. We just returned from 9 days in eastern Washington and our poor little 4 cylinder Tacoma had some issues tackling the passes on Hwy 20 (North Cascades Hwy in northern Washington state). We would feel safer in a bigger rig (too many big trucks pulling 5th wheelers and truckers in resource extraction country that straighten out curves), braking power would be better, more power and more room.

So we have decided on a Grandby. We met a nice couple from Port Orchard who had a 1999 Grandby on a 2009 Ford F250 long bed. Sooooo much more room and storage. Are they as difficult to find used as an Eagle? If we get a bigger truck we will be in hock more than we would like if we bought a new Grandby. How do you Grandby owners like yours? We decided not to get Keystone as we didn't want/need shower/potty as porta potty works well and we shower in campgrounds. All that extra room would be taken up by something we don't want (well, maybe need the shower but hey, we may never see people we meet again).

What vehicle to haul it around do you prefer? Ford, GMC, Chevy, Dodge? 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton? gas or diesel? We know we want 4x4, automatic, and extended (not crew) cab.

We will be keeping Toyota as it is my running around town vehicle and driving one of those bigger trucks is like driving a big truck to me. Just doesn't feel right.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[K7MDL]

Loads of threads on here about which truck. Mostly personal prefernce in my observation, they all will do the job assuming you are talking about 3/4 ton or more. 1/2 ton has also worked for some, do your research more carefully though, could end up feeling the same as your current situation.

There are a couple of us Grandby owners in the Seattle/Everett area here and could arrange a drive/try to see for yourself. I tow a trailer and motortcycles behind my 3/4T. I chose gas to reduce costs, I use it as a RV mostly, so the miles are more limited per year. Diesel is more costly but if you do high miles you might find some payback with the better fuel mileage. Also better if you end up wanting to tow really heavy stuff later in life.

It is hard to find a used modern Grandby in the PNW. Took me a year or more before finding my opportunity local. Used a full size 8ft camper until I found what I wanted locally. They go fast.

There should be more Grandby's around than Eagles, I am sure many more have been produced than Eagles. My guess. With the quad cab truck in reserve, I use an inexpensive used 2 seater sports car convertible and motorcycles for commuting and fun.

- Mike near Woodinville/Monroe

 

[pods8]

Mike's got a grandby, I've got a hawk if you want to wander down this way perhaps we can have a show and tell. If it's just you two then I'd think a regular cab truck with a grandby might be a great combo, if you're looking at extended cab trucks I personally prefer a shorter wheel base.

I ran a 1/2T with my hawk for a while, I like the 3/4T better. For starters with dodge I went from a 26gal gas tank to a 34gal which is a big difference when running a gasser. I prefer dodge quad cab's because I'm in a family situation and actually want to put people in the back but don't want to go to the full crew cab size of ford. Again if it's just you two then your slate is wide open. Ford chassis are pretty good. Also the new ford 1/2T are throwing up some big numbers in regards to capacity/breaking/etc., but they come with a cost, don't assume the same numbers for the older ones there have been alot of increases over the years.

 

[clikrf8]

Yes, we are looking at 3/4 tons. I get to keep my Tacoma to run errands into town as I do not like driving bigger trucks. We are looking at Ford F250s and Dodge 2500s. And, comparable Dodge and Chevy models. We need extended cab for our dog who is a year old Standard Poodle/German Shorthaired Pointer Cross and all his gear. Like a baby, you know. But, not crew cab as it would be overkill. Extended cab in Toyota is a bit cramped. We checked out a Grandby at Sun Lakes and liked the layout very much. The couple who owned it generously let us check it out. So much room and you don't have to move bed to use stove. We will be selling the camper after early August as I have a Blues Festival to shoot locally and it would be great to use it as my base. We could sell it as a hunters' camper. Which comes first, huh, the camper or the truck? We may possibly buy the camper new as we did the Eagle as it was very hard to find used in the PNW.

Thanks,
Judy

 

[NWCamper]

Hello fellow Bellinghamster. I run a 2005 Grandby shell on a 1997 F150 supercab short box. Works well for us. I think you will have the most luck finding a Grandby than any other used FWC in the NW. In fact, there was one on Seattle craigslist just last week I believe. Like Pods, I have a young one so the supercab is required. We went with the shortbox as the supercab with the long box is just too long for our tastes. We were looking for a hawk but this Grandby was available for $1K locally so needless to say we jumped on it. We really appreciate the extra space the Grandby offers and also share it with our dog. For the shell, the 1/2 ton works for us. On steep backroad grades, I do sometimes wish for better brakes but I have no problems over SR20 or the other mountain passes. If I had the money though I probably would go with the 3/4 ton as well.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your eastern washington trip. We have been starting to explore that area more ourselves. If you ever want to check out our setup, just let me know.

 

[generubin]

Judy,

Do it right this time. Go 3/4 ton. If you want 4x4 get a Ford or Dodge as you'll get a solid front axle. If you want a diesel, go Dodge as you'll get a super reliable Cummins.

Gene

 

[pods8]

So much room and you don't have to move bed to use stove.


FYI, not that hard to replace the counter top and relocate the stove if you or your husband is relatively handy. I redid my hawk to put in a king sided slide out and my flush mount smev sink/stove can still be used with it fully extended.

 

[clikrf8]

Wow, thanks for all the input. We would like an 8' bed so the back end doesn't stick out so far and maybe drag on backroads if severely rutted. Or get pitted from rocks. I am an artist/illustrator type so like proportion so 8 foot bed looks a little long and disproportionate. It also means an increase in wheelbase, right meaning longer turning radius? Would the frame be more likely to strain under a longer frame? I mean, the wheels and axles are that much further apart, the sag factor?

Gene, we should have listened to you to begin with as you were the one who rightly pointed out the braking problem. We were newly retired, scared to death that the economy would take even more of our hard-earned retirement savings so were reluctant to shell out more money. What the heck, we say. We have had to put in a new septic system this year ($$$$$), a new deck as ours was shot, and installed a living fence due to creepy caretaker next door hanging tattered tarps on fence for his privacy (don't ask, long story). So, might as well go for it, right? Hubby's back hurts from driving and we get a little cranky with each other being in such tight quarters at times. So, newer, bigger truck, older maybe new camper. Lesson learned.

We are rethinking diesel due to noise. We like the quiet and don't like to disturb wildlife too much. We learned in a car lot the other day that diesels have become quieter but still.... Also, the newer ones are beyond our budget ($20k). The Dodge looks good. We sat in a few at the lot and also looked at the Hemi gas engine. My grandpa was a diesel mechanic; sure wish he was here to advise us. He preferred Fords. Nice to know about Fords and Dodges as that is what we narrowed it down to but will consider others.

Northwest Camper, yes, we liked the roominess of the Grandby we saw and having a dog is like having another kid. Toller fit well behind our seats in the Tacoma extended cab but it was difficult to retrieve our camera gear. He was comfortable but I couldn't slide my seat as far back as I would like. I sound like a spoiled child but we are older and this is probably our last major purchase. Time for that wild ride.

Pods8, hubby used to be handy, worked on our vehicles and built things but since he broke his back in 2007, he can't do what he used to. I like what you did; very clean look and fine workmanship. How do you like your Dodge Hemi? We would like to try for an older model. How is the ride? Are the seats comfortable? Handling? Gas mileage? Anything else that may be helpful?

Rain is gone; time to tie up peonies and weed garden.

A few photos are up on Flickr:

the Palouse

 

[K7MDL]

There is no problem with frame durability/strength and wheelbase in the long bed trucks. They are more than built for their loads and the FWC is a lightweight load. The longer length is more work in a parking lot, it does take some practice in tight places, I tend to head for the back of the lot to find the easiest parking. On the paved roads or all active forest roads the long wheel base is of no issue. To me the width is the bigger issue compared to a Tacoma on narrow backroads area with lots of overhang. But that is not common. I appreciate the extra storage I get in the Grandby as I haul along lots of motorcycle gear and can store more food and parts and tools. I use a motorcycle carrier on my longbed/camper combo and still have no issue cruising the PNW forest roads.

 

[pods8]

Pods8, hubby used to be handy, worked on our vehicles and built things but since he broke his back in 2007, he can't do what he used to. I like what you did; very clean look and fine workmanship. How do you like your Dodge Hemi? We would like to try for an older model. How is the ride? Are the seats comfortable? Handling? Gas mileage? Anything else that may be helpful?



Hemi is fine, they can throw down some good torque but you may need to spool it up to do so. Its a 3/4T and you know it but I think it drives well, I like the tow mirrors on the 3/4T better than what I had on the 1/2T. I did some steering upgrades and put in new shocks but things were worn when I got the truck, that is a hit/miss thing. Mike's is all stock still. I think the seats are fine, lots of room in the cab too. Gas milage isn't great but not too many gassers are, I was getting about 13mpg on the expressway loaded up with the family the other day. The 34gal gas tank is handy considering...

Only point of consideration is 2004, 2005, 2006? auto transmissions you can't lock out both over drive gears to get into third which could cause some extra heat to be generated. In either 2006 or 2007 they fixed that and now you can lock out 5th gear by selecting "tow haul" (this seems to run well for my combo the majority of the time, you can consider 5th gear for the long steady runs but otherwise the improved shift points in tow haul feels better) or "OD off" which locks out both 4&5 and lets you run in 3rd, handy for steed pass climbing.

On the ford front the new 5.0 engine is supposed to be pretty good and get better milage.

 

[generubin]

A few things to think about. A diesel Dodge from 2006 or under gets better mileage than a newer one. I get 19 to 22 with no camper (your 4 cylinder Toyota won't do much better than this). With camper 17 to 19. 2006 or under has no urea and runs well on Mexican diesel which is important for Baja trips. My 2006 has crank windows, rubber floors and manual trans. It is very basic and with 70K miles on it has been 100% reliable. Not one problem. Auto trans' on any vehicle is the most complex, least reliable part of the drive train and an auto trans can leave you stranded without warning. A manual trans will be one of the most reliable parts and gives thousands of miles of warning should a problem arise.

If you decide to go diesel, the Dodge Cummins reliability is legendary. It is an inline 6 making the engine compartment free of clutter and service a piece of cake. The Ford and Chevy are V8's and....well...just look under the hood and you'll see what a nightmare service would be.

My Dodge with the camper off is quite agile around town. If you are going to have an around town car get something like a Prius or Civic. My Civic Hybrid gets me 48 mpg, averaged with my truck, I get around 32 overall mpg.

 

[K7MDL]

On my 2005 hemi I got a Diablosport Predator engine tuner device and I can upload custom tunes and set several parameters to my liking. One of them is shift points. It comes with a new transmission tune and various octane tunes.

I have been running 91 Octave tune lately to see what that is like. I have always run 87 in the tank stock.

The new transmission tune changes thw shift points and firms it up some so the result is that in tow/haul it does little to no hunting now, it pretty much stays in gear at 3500 RPM and doing 65-70 or so all the way up any of the passes. Only 2-3 times I might kick it down for a 30 seconds. Used to hunt around a lot and was either screaming at 5K or lugging at 3K pretty much 50/50 on the steep parts. With this change I do not miss the O/D lock out and thus would easily consider a low miles 2005 again.

 

[pods8]

If you are going to have an around town car get something like a Prius or Civic. My Civic Hybrid gets me 48 mpg, averaged with my truck, I get around 32 overall mpg.


I've got a cheapo toyota echo that is my around town machine, knocks out 36mpg all day long for me and since I picked it up for $3k in 2008 (buddy was going to trade it in so I match the dealer trade in price) the gas savings have paid for itself easily.

With this change I do not miss the O/D lock out and thus would easily consider a low miles 2005 again.


Good to know that can be improved/worked around, that is the main shortfall of those years with autos. My 2003 just had OD off w/o tow haul, I like the programing on this 2007 better. That 2003 almost never went into 4th, so I mainly would go between 3rd and 5th. This trip with tow haul felt really well in terms of holding 3rd for a bit and not just jumping up and 4th on the rolling hills felt good with the tires I have, I was running about 2k on the expressway. Flatlands I'd likely see if 5th would hold fine (my other truck did). Being able to hold third on the passes is key, when the engine is in the 3000-3500rpm range it throws down some solid torque and I'd be able climb the passes at 70 fine.

 

[clikrf8]

You guys made some good points. I am taking notes. I am glad that the Dodge to get is 2006 or older for better mileage as we experienced sticker shock when we visited a dealership. And, i am talking about used, not new. We are not even going there.

We are selling our Honda Accord and keeping the Tacoma. I love that truck. And, driving the Honda feels less safe as I am a lot lower and it is smaller. They seem to hold their value, the Hondas. And, the manager at the Dodge dealer wanted our truck. Loved the color, a light purple-blue.

Hubby insists on automatic. I personally don't care but he rules on those things. I can drive stick but haven't since we got the truck. He decided on automatic.

We have a great mechanic (hubby used to do some mechanical until he hurt his back, although he did install air bags) but he doesn't do diesel although he drives one.

We are not in a big hurry so will wait for a good deal.

Btw, in a Grandby, can you sit up in the dinette while the top is down? And, can you see out the window when sitting in the dinette without scrunching your head?

 

[K7MDL]

...

Hubby insists on automatic. I personally don't care but he rules on those things. I can drive stick but haven't since we got the truck. He decided on automatic.

...

We are not in a big hurry so will wait for a good deal.

Btw, in a Grandby, can you sit up in the dinette while the top is down? And, can you see out the window when sitting in the dinette without scrunching your head?


The automatic is fine. I do not have a dinette configuration, just the normal couch. You can sit on it no problem with the top down. The window top edge is below your eye level a bit so to see straight out I have to bend over a bit, but not much. There is enough space above the counter to operate the faucet so maybe 6-8" there. I am 6' 1".

My '05 would hunt between 3rd and 5th also with stock programming, the new programming makes that go away, hence no more screaming then lugging.

 

[GBW]

I went into this big debate last year. I had a pretty nice 1997 Chevy 1/2 ton, it technically handled the camper fine but it wasn't enjoyable. Definetely not compared to my 'new' dodge 3/4T.

I will only give a few hints as this debate can rage on for years.

Ford - you will find 2003.5+ to 2007?? are great deals. There is a reason, their 6.0L diesel is horrid. Some people have had good luck with them but they are far and few between. Don't be tempted by the 6L diesel. I did drive a V10, they have a ton of power and aren't TOO terrible on gas. The engine reliability of the V10 is outstanding. I did drive a 3/4T with a 5.4L, it was ok, power was to be desired. I don't think the mileage was much better than the V10 due to the gas pedal always being mashed to maintain 100km/h. (BTW, I drive like an old man) Look for a 2000+ V10, some 1999 had issues. If you find a 1999-2003.5 7.3L diesel, get it, they are gems. Great motor, great reliability.
Fords, similar to Dodge, will have front end issues that will need to be addressed.

Dodge - I personally needed a crew cab, so that limited me to a 2003+. You only need an extended cab, so you can look back further, to 1996 or so. They are great motors, great reliability, great mileage etc. Doing a seat of the pants poll, I think most 3/4T owners on WTW have dodges. 2007.5+ changed motors and uses the urea solution, manageable but a pain. Will need front end work, fact of life. I've found that the diesels are more prone to needing front end work due to their significantly increased weight with the engine. You may be able to extend a few lifecycles on ball joints, tie-rod ends and such with the Hemi. Many posters here have the hemi and have chimed in. Probably the best diesel motor of the 3, best fuel mileage but other things are left to be desired on the truck.

Chevy - I can't speak to them much, I wanted a solid front axle. Great 6.0L gas motor but very poor fuel mileage. Proven diesel motor, some years are better than others, you'll have to do your homework on this, I don't know. Don't know if the diesel had a manual transmission option? The other two do.

Automatics - I have found that (I can only speak to dodge here) that the auto's that 'blow up' are usually behind chipped motors with significantly more power than factory. Yes, a manual is best but don't be afraid of the auto if you're not going to chip or program the motor. You will be blown away with the power, especially over your 4cyl.

 

[pods8]

Automatics - I have found that (I can only speak to dodge here) that the auto's that 'blow up' are usually behind chipped motors with significantly more power than factory. Yes, a manual is best but don't be afraid of the auto if you're not going to chip or program the motor. You will be blown away with the power, especially over your 4cyl.


Also to chime in, don't forget user abuse (willful or ignorant), automatic transmissions generate heat when the torque convertor is slipping which is fine for short bursts but a driver in tune with their vehicle will know to shift out/electronically lock out the upper gears when required. This will dramatically reduce temperatures generated which reduces transmission life SUBSTANTIALLY if ignored.

 

[UglyScout]

I have an older Grandby with the standard overhang and it is very nice - but having seen the newer ones, they are MUCH nicer and roomier. My next one will be 100% for sure another Grandby with the extended cab bed.

I haul mine around in a 2002 3/4 ton Chevy Crew Cab with the duramax and automatic. Of all the automatic transmissions in the big three trucks the allison is hands down the best/most reliable in stock form. I have ZERO hesitation loading my camper and hooking up my 8000 pound car trailer and mashing the gas pedal where ever I need to go. In my older Dodge diesel with an auto I was always a little worried about the auto and was always turning the OD off - which resulted in lower mileage...

Yes - the front suspension is IFS but the same parts that wear out on my front end wear out on a solid axle ie. balljoint/a-arm bushings, unit bearings, tie rod ends, etc. But it rides very nice for a big heavy truck

I leave my camper loaded for most of the summer and my wife drives the truck as here daily driver - we get about 17-19 mpg all the time.