Ramblinman
Senior Member
My Deka AGM battery is dying. I will be in the market for a new one. Any suggestions in terms of brand?
What is the best brand of battery?
- Thread starter Ramblinman
- Start date
I believe LifeLink batteries are very good, but I've not had reason to purchase any AGMs other than those that came with my camper. For my Travel Trailer, I have used lead acid (external battery box).
Edit: looks like I was a bit off on the name, LifeLine is the proper brand name. LifeLink makes some of my skiing stuff.
Edit: looks like I was a bit off on the name, LifeLine is the proper brand name. LifeLink makes some of my skiing stuff.
Alley-Kat
Elder Statesman
Lifeline AGM.
Unknown to me, a distributor had damaged the exterior cases in an unseen way of a whole pallet of them. When I had an issue after three years of use by me, they tracked my Lifeline AGM back to that distributor and sent me a new battery at no cost including shipping, and paid the shipping costs for the damaged one to be sent back to them. I've had the second one for 2+ years now and it's working great.
Unknown to me, a distributor had damaged the exterior cases in an unseen way of a whole pallet of them. When I had an issue after three years of use by me, they tracked my Lifeline AGM back to that distributor and sent me a new battery at no cost including shipping, and paid the shipping costs for the damaged one to be sent back to them. I've had the second one for 2+ years now and it's working great.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
I prefer the Optima Blue Top Marine (deep cycle) AGM batteries. I have used them for years for my boat's 24V and 36V Ripetide trolling motors. Even from sunrise to sunset constant use, the batteries provided power. Plus, they recharge overnight to capacity and are ready to go the next day. All have lasted over 3 years before needing replacment.
It was an easy decision for me to install two D27M in my new Hawk.
At OX-West, with 2 days of cold rain, sleet and snow, furnace on all day and night with thermostat set at 64'F (wife's request), the batteries never registered below 2/3 power remaining. We were getting some residual solar charging during the day even though we had a thick overcast.
For battery comparison and to determine the amount of energy stored in any given battery, look at reserve capacity. Reserve capacity is the industry standard and is defined as "the time a 25 Amp current draw at eighty degrees Fahrenheit takes a battery to 10.5V".
If you discharge deep into the reserve capacity, always best to trickle charge with shore power.
It was an easy decision for me to install two D27M in my new Hawk.
At OX-West, with 2 days of cold rain, sleet and snow, furnace on all day and night with thermostat set at 64'F (wife's request), the batteries never registered below 2/3 power remaining. We were getting some residual solar charging during the day even though we had a thick overcast.
For battery comparison and to determine the amount of energy stored in any given battery, look at reserve capacity. Reserve capacity is the industry standard and is defined as "the time a 25 Amp current draw at eighty degrees Fahrenheit takes a battery to 10.5V".
If you discharge deep into the reserve capacity, always best to trickle charge with shore power.
Old Crow
Searching....
Practical Sailor Magazine's shootout of 10 AGM and Gel batteries is an interesting read which helps us think about what would be best for our rigs considering how we use them....
http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/32_3/features/Deep-Cycle-Battery-Test_5244-1.html
.... but it is an older article now so we kind of wonder if anything has changed since then.
I see there are updates from Practical Sailor in later years but they are only available to subscribers.
And I see at http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/203266-practical-sailor-agm-battery-report.html that the May 2015 issue has their latest attempt to consider the effects of real-world usage on these batteries. (short version: read post 5-- that's the guy who wrote the article in Practical Sailor)
-OC
http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/32_3/features/Deep-Cycle-Battery-Test_5244-1.html
.... but it is an older article now so we kind of wonder if anything has changed since then.
I see there are updates from Practical Sailor in later years but they are only available to subscribers.
And I see at http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/203266-practical-sailor-agm-battery-report.html that the May 2015 issue has their latest attempt to consider the effects of real-world usage on these batteries. (short version: read post 5-- that's the guy who wrote the article in Practical Sailor)
-OC
Advmoto18
Senior Member
Crow...
Thanks for linking the articles!
That was a very good read written by Maine Sail.
I have already noticed my Optima Blue Tops recharge to 14.6V vs 14.7V when new. Most likely due to sulfation as a result of not recharging to full capacity after every cycle. The batteries were installed 3 months ago. But, after 3 weeks on the road, camping off the grid and with only 2 connections (recharge) to shore power during the trip, I think not recovering the batteries to full capacity after each cycle has diminished their capacity just as Maine Sail pointed out.
But, when off the grid, and at the mercy of Mother Nature offering direct sunlight, one must take what one can get from the Sun.
I have noted that shore power recharging will only top my batteries off to 14.6 with a flicker of 14.7V.
When my Blue Top require replacement, I will take a hard look at FireFly. But, it will require finding a way to get two Group 31 and 150# of batteries inside the battery compartment of my Hawk.
Thanks for linking the articles!
That was a very good read written by Maine Sail.
I have already noticed my Optima Blue Tops recharge to 14.6V vs 14.7V when new. Most likely due to sulfation as a result of not recharging to full capacity after every cycle. The batteries were installed 3 months ago. But, after 3 weeks on the road, camping off the grid and with only 2 connections (recharge) to shore power during the trip, I think not recovering the batteries to full capacity after each cycle has diminished their capacity just as Maine Sail pointed out.
But, when off the grid, and at the mercy of Mother Nature offering direct sunlight, one must take what one can get from the Sun.
I have noted that shore power recharging will only top my batteries off to 14.6 with a flicker of 14.7V.
When my Blue Top require replacement, I will take a hard look at FireFly. But, it will require finding a way to get two Group 31 and 150# of batteries inside the battery compartment of my Hawk.
Old Crow
Searching....
re:6- Advmoto- I'm not sure what to think about the Firefly. I want to keep an eye on them after that test but I'd love to see more info from early adopters. By the way, I'm also an Optima fan. I have them in my vehicles and I have a Blue-Top I've used for trolling motor, clay-target thrower, and a friend's CPAP machine. I'm a bit concerned about it. I've let it sit for months at a time (over a 3 year period) and then charged it with an el-cheapo charger I've grown to distrust. I think it's about due for a recovery charge given it dropped down to 12.4 sitting since its last top-off in January. If my Lifeline in the Hawk turns out to need replacing, I'm not sure which way I'll go. I am enjoying the heck out of figuring it out, though.
re:7 - Paul- Yeah, I see I need to start reading Handy Bob. I've thought of it as solar-only to this point (and don't have solar). Thanks.
-OC
re:7 - Paul- Yeah, I see I need to start reading Handy Bob. I've thought of it as solar-only to this point (and don't have solar). Thanks.
-OC
The Next Adventures
Advanced Member
DieHard platinum marine agm, you can pick one up at Sears
Advmoto18
Senior Member
Paul...
I once managed to obtain over 4 years out of two BLUE TOPS dedicated to running my Ripetide trolling motor on my flats boat. But, i was using them several times a week. I use a Minn Kota onboard digital charger plugged into shore power after each outing. Once the battereis are fully charged, I switch over to a battery minder. A battery minder usually produces 1.5A of charge, a 1/2A less than the trickle charge feature on most chargers. I suspect the half amp less reduces heat buildup in the battery compared to 2A.
I am developing a similar habit pattern with my Hawk batteries. While I have a 100W solar panel on the roof, I feel disconencting the batteries (removing the draw from the detectors) and hooking up a battery minder is a more reliable/constant charging option to help negate sulfation and prolong battery life. It really doesn't take that much extra time to establish such a habit pattern. And if squeaks out an extra year (hopeing for 4) of storage from the battieries in their lifetime, then the effort is worth it IMO.
I'll let you know the results in 2018! ;-)
I once managed to obtain over 4 years out of two BLUE TOPS dedicated to running my Ripetide trolling motor on my flats boat. But, i was using them several times a week. I use a Minn Kota onboard digital charger plugged into shore power after each outing. Once the battereis are fully charged, I switch over to a battery minder. A battery minder usually produces 1.5A of charge, a 1/2A less than the trickle charge feature on most chargers. I suspect the half amp less reduces heat buildup in the battery compared to 2A.
I am developing a similar habit pattern with my Hawk batteries. While I have a 100W solar panel on the roof, I feel disconencting the batteries (removing the draw from the detectors) and hooking up a battery minder is a more reliable/constant charging option to help negate sulfation and prolong battery life. It really doesn't take that much extra time to establish such a habit pattern. And if squeaks out an extra year (hopeing for 4) of storage from the battieries in their lifetime, then the effort is worth it IMO.
I'll let you know the results in 2018! ;-)
PaulT
Need gumbo
I have two Optima Blue top batteries in my boat. They have been in use since 2008. Besides charging by the engine alternator, I have a Pro Mariner dual battery charger that I use to top them off after fishing or after the boat has gone unused for a period of time.For the most part , they sit there for 2 to 4 weeks between fishing/crabbing trips off the charger without complaint. The batteries are installed in the cuddy cabin and take a pounding in rough water. That is one of the reasons spiral cells were chosen.
One caveat on the less intelligent battery maintainers, I have had 5 or 6 Battery Tender 1.25a chargers that I use to keep my emergency backup batteries for ham radio charged. If you are not pulling down the batteries some with use every two weeks or so, I recommend disconnecting the Battery Tenders for 15 minutes to an hour every two weeks to force the charger to restart the charging profile. I lost several 100aH to 150aH batteries due to sulphation/surface charge in the last 15 or so years until I discovered that this prevented it. The Iota DLS-30 with IQ4 and the Zamp solar charge controllers do this for you by periodically cycling back to the phase 1 of the charging profile.
As usual, YMMV.
Paul
One caveat on the less intelligent battery maintainers, I have had 5 or 6 Battery Tender 1.25a chargers that I use to keep my emergency backup batteries for ham radio charged. If you are not pulling down the batteries some with use every two weeks or so, I recommend disconnecting the Battery Tenders for 15 minutes to an hour every two weeks to force the charger to restart the charging profile. I lost several 100aH to 150aH batteries due to sulphation/surface charge in the last 15 or so years until I discovered that this prevented it. The Iota DLS-30 with IQ4 and the Zamp solar charge controllers do this for you by periodically cycling back to the phase 1 of the charging profile.
As usual, YMMV.
Paul
Advmoto18
Senior Member
PaulT...
I guess I was a bit more anal maintaining my marine batteries. I probably could have adapted your routine and be just fine.
I've spent the morning reading and trying to digest HandyBob's diseration on solar applications and components.
FWC installed the Zamp ZS-15AW controller in my camper. With two Optima BlueTop D27M's installed and the controller set for AGMs, the controller displays "FUL" at 13.6V. However the Optima web site receommends 14.7V for series. So now I'm wondering if my battieries are under-charged as HandyBob seems to state. As far as I can tell, the Zamp controller must seem to think one battery installed, hence the FUL display at 13.6V which would inidicate Float Charge mode. Further, it seems I need to swap out the wiring from the controller to the batteries to at least 10GA, if not 4GA, if everything I've read is on the up and up.
I guess I need to purchase and install Trimetric 2030-RV to really know what is going on with the batteries. Without a monitor it is simply a crap shoot as to battery state.
This topic is enough to make a man grab a whiskey bottle early in the afternoon!
I guess I was a bit more anal maintaining my marine batteries. I probably could have adapted your routine and be just fine.
I've spent the morning reading and trying to digest HandyBob's diseration on solar applications and components.
FWC installed the Zamp ZS-15AW controller in my camper. With two Optima BlueTop D27M's installed and the controller set for AGMs, the controller displays "FUL" at 13.6V. However the Optima web site receommends 14.7V for series. So now I'm wondering if my battieries are under-charged as HandyBob seems to state. As far as I can tell, the Zamp controller must seem to think one battery installed, hence the FUL display at 13.6V which would inidicate Float Charge mode. Further, it seems I need to swap out the wiring from the controller to the batteries to at least 10GA, if not 4GA, if everything I've read is on the up and up.
I guess I need to purchase and install Trimetric 2030-RV to really know what is going on with the batteries. Without a monitor it is simply a crap shoot as to battery state.
This topic is enough to make a man grab a whiskey bottle early in the afternoon!
PaulT
Need gumbo
In FWC's defense, Zamp calls for #16 to #18 wire for a <0.9m run to battery from the ZS-15AW like I also have. Their 30 amp controller manual recommends #6 or #8 wire for a < 1m run. Wiring diagram is on or about page 4. I think the wire run may be close to that length on my Hawk but that seems like a big wire size difference.
The manuals show what voltages are used to charge the battery in the various stages.and they seem low, especially given the + or - 0.2v tolerance.
Paul.
The manuals show what voltages are used to charge the battery in the various stages.and they seem low, especially given the + or - 0.2v tolerance.
Paul.
DesertDave
Senior Member
When the Zamp controller determines the batteries are fully charged,it goes to float voltage of 13.6. I venture to say that is what is going on.
I put just a few ah into the batteries via solar after the Iota charger indicates they are full and switches to float charge, before the Zamp also indicates batteries are fully charged. To me this indicates each device is pretty close in their logic on how my batteries are to be charged.
I have checked the voltage of my battery bank after leaving the batteries without float charge from either source for a couple of days, and regardless of original charge source, they always show 13v. This compares to the voltage of the bank when originally purchased and stored for several weeks in the garage of 12.9v. I trust both the Zamp controller as installed and the Iota a installed, both at the factory.
I put just a few ah into the batteries via solar after the Iota charger indicates they are full and switches to float charge, before the Zamp also indicates batteries are fully charged. To me this indicates each device is pretty close in their logic on how my batteries are to be charged.
I have checked the voltage of my battery bank after leaving the batteries without float charge from either source for a couple of days, and regardless of original charge source, they always show 13v. This compares to the voltage of the bank when originally purchased and stored for several weeks in the garage of 12.9v. I trust both the Zamp controller as installed and the Iota a installed, both at the factory.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
In FWC's defense, Zamp calls for #16 to #18 wire for a <0.9m run to battery from the ZS-15AW like I also have. Their 30 amp controller manual recommends #6 or #8 wire for a < 1m run. Wiring diagram is on or about page 4. I think the wire run may be close to that length on my Hawk but that seems like a big wire size difference.
The manuals show what voltages are used to charge the battery in the various stages.and they seem low, especially given the + or - 0.2v tolerance.
Paul.
I certainly did not mean to imply FWC was doing something out of the ordinary or not in accordance with the manufacturer's (Zamp) specifications/instructions.
I read the manual in its entirity. I noted the wire gauge as well. HandyBob has quite a different take on the wire guage between the controller and batteries. HandyBob (an EE) seems to believe 10GA, or perhaps 4GA on a bigger battery array is called for between the controller and batteries.
I have an email into Zamp asking about "FUL(L)" display at 13.6V for float charge mode. My question/concern, is the Zamp ZS-15AW designed for an array (2 or more) of batteries? If so, how do you get the controller to charge an array of batteries to 14.7V? Optima has already replied that 14.7V is the required charge for an array. If the Zamp controller is activating float mode at 13.6V with an array, then my Optima AGM D27M batteries are not being fully charged according to Optima. However, 13.6V is the Float charge threshold for the Optima D27M as well, in a single battery setup.
I simply do not know how the Zamp controller is operating or maintaining my battery array without a battery momitor installed. I did note it is a 5 stage controller. Unfortuantely, Google can not find a listing of the 5 stages.
Of note, my MinnKota Digital Charger on my boat bulk charges my AGM Blue Tops to 80% capacity. Then enters absorption mode allowing up to 14.7V followed by <1A maintainer mode. The unit senses how many (up to 3) batteries are attached to the unit.
The manuals show what voltages are used to charge the battery in the various stages.and they seem low, especially given the + or - 0.2v tolerance.
Paul.
I certainly did not mean to imply FWC was doing something out of the ordinary or not in accordance with the manufacturer's (Zamp) specifications/instructions.
I read the manual in its entirity. I noted the wire gauge as well. HandyBob has quite a different take on the wire guage between the controller and batteries. HandyBob (an EE) seems to believe 10GA, or perhaps 4GA on a bigger battery array is called for between the controller and batteries.
I have an email into Zamp asking about "FUL(L)" display at 13.6V for float charge mode. My question/concern, is the Zamp ZS-15AW designed for an array (2 or more) of batteries? If so, how do you get the controller to charge an array of batteries to 14.7V? Optima has already replied that 14.7V is the required charge for an array. If the Zamp controller is activating float mode at 13.6V with an array, then my Optima AGM D27M batteries are not being fully charged according to Optima. However, 13.6V is the Float charge threshold for the Optima D27M as well, in a single battery setup.
I simply do not know how the Zamp controller is operating or maintaining my battery array without a battery momitor installed. I did note it is a 5 stage controller. Unfortuantely, Google can not find a listing of the 5 stages.
Of note, my MinnKota Digital Charger on my boat bulk charges my AGM Blue Tops to 80% capacity. Then enters absorption mode allowing up to 14.7V followed by <1A maintainer mode. The unit senses how many (up to 3) batteries are attached to the unit.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
Ramblinman...
My apologies for hijacking you thread and turning it into a solar controller discussion.
I am starting a new thread under FWC Discussions.
My apologies for hijacking you thread and turning it into a solar controller discussion.
I am starting a new thread under FWC Discussions.
OP
OP
Ramblinman
Senior Member
It's all good - lots of good info here.
Can anyone confirmthat Die Hard has also rebranded its self as Power Surge because Sears holds the Die Hard Brand?
Sears in Canada no longer sells AGM Batteries
Can anyone confirmthat Die Hard has also rebranded its self as Power Surge because Sears holds the Die Hard Brand?
Sears in Canada no longer sells AGM Batteries
MANXMAN
Senior Member
In a "best AGM RV battery" thread I'm surprised that Trojan hasn't been mentioned. Although I am a noob when it comes to RV batteries, I have heard many times over the years that Trojan is a preferred product. Have they been surpassed by the other premium brands now?
OP
OP
Ramblinman
Senior Member
My research - pointed to Trojan but they are pricey
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