Windows. Are more better?

C

Chadx

Advanced Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
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68
Location
SW Montana
My wife and I plan to order our 2017 Hawk Shell (with side dinette, furnace/stovetop, etc. but no fridge or plumbing) over this coming winter for delivery in early 2017. We have options pretty much decided as I've been weighing the pros and cons....and weight!...of each option for the last couple years. The one non-firm decision is windows.

Being the type of person that values reliability and durability, the deciding factor in eliminating several other options, that we were on the fence about, came down to erring on the side of potentially fewer long term maintenance issues related to exterior penetrations. Fewer screw holes, openings, fittings etc. means one less place to monitor sealant and one less thing to allow water penetration in the future after years of twisting/rain/UV/age (the camper, not me).

That background is where I'm coming from while trying to decide on optional windows. The first being the window between the camper and truck cab. I think the slider is discontinued due to leaks but it was replaced by the removable window, but it also had some issues, but then those seemed to be fixed. I do value having the ability to pass items through the front window and the ability to vent, but not worth it if the leaks are still occurring on a fair percentage of units.

The harder decision is the "Additional Louvered Window (Driver side)" which is the full sized driver's side window that is an option on the Hawk Shell (and only an option with the empty shell or the shell with the side dinette like ours will be). That optional window is the same size as the full size standard passenger-side window. Quite large and would let in a lot of light and be nice to have when in the camper for several reasons: more light, added view, option of more ventilation, etc. I don't believe the smaller driver's side window, that is paired with the front dinette, is available with the side dinette, but if so, that would be an option as well as we thing some light and view out both sides of the shell would be nice.

The main negative that has me on the fence would be the potential for leaks. But since it's not a front facing window, I'm hoping there is less risk of having some of the leaking issues experienced in the front window which largely seemed to have issues while driving at speed during heavy rains where the extra force from the wind likely played a part. Afterall, there do not seem to be any issues with the full size window on the passenger side, so thinking the drivers side would be equally reliable.

Price is a minor consideration. Though by no means cheap at $525, I've discovered in the past, it is best to go ahead and get exactly what we want rather than the "wish I would have..." later. Plus we plan to have our FWC for a long time so amortized over the length of ownership, price is less significant.

Also of minor consideration is the fact that the area occupied by the optional full length side window is typically insulated and so there could be some impact to the overall heat retention in cold weather. Extreme cold is not on our current agenda though we currently tent camp and/or hammock camp down to just below freezing, so somewhat cold weather trips are likely. For those trips, we plan to vent but not run the furnace while we sleep, and just kick it on in the morning to warm up and help dry out. Unlikely to be a large impact, but I'm really not sure if those missing square feet insulation will impact real world heat retention to a medium or to a minor degree.

Also not sure if there will be any significant-enough-to-worry-about frame strength impacts as there are some vertical supports that will not be present to allow for the window.

Hoping others can chime in with experience with extra windows; especially the optional full-side window on the Driver's Side to go along with the existing full length passenger side window. Maybe chime in with some things that I'm not considered.

So, are more windows better?
 
Not necessarily. In our Grandby shell, even the standard wide passenger window (w/ louvered slats and emergency egress awning pane) is covered up with a curtain for a large part of the time. Maybe we're just too lazy to open it back up, since we often use that window area for daily storage of stuff. It's still quite useful for ventilation and as a secondary exit, though. We have no windows on the driver's side. But the little right-rear square window hasn't delivered much value to us, and we could've done without it. Since we spend most of our time outside the camper, I suppose that, overall, the windows have proven to be of limited value to us, but I can see where others may find them to be more useful than we have. Actually the top vent with fantastic fan has been one of the best things we have in the way of penetrations. So... I think you'll find that 'better' is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck with your order, Chadx!
Rico
 
My wife says the thing she HATES about our hawk is the lack of usable windows. The passenger side windows are for the most part worthless. The couch blocks it and I use the area for some storage since we can't see out of the windows anyway. I would not set up my camper any other way than the way I have it but she would LOVE the windows you are talking about.
 
Counter space will cover at least 1/2 of the window (if you make it standard 36" high). I find I get most of my light from the 'windows' on the soft side. The windows on the hard part of the camper are too low to see out of unless laying down (my bed is down). The beagle loves them though; he lays on the bed and can see out for stuff to bark at. And I do use them for ventilation with the MaxxFan exhausting air.

jim
 
The large window is also the emergency exit. I doubt FWC would or could eliminate due to the law. I believe there is a requirement for an emergency exit on all campers.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Wander The West mobile app
 
Thanks for the replies so far. A couple clarifications.

We are not considering eliminating the passenger side louvered window. We are adding the side dinette to this shell build and like the passenger side window. We are considering adding the optional/additional louvered window on the drivers side.

We will not be building a counter on the driver's side. We will set coolers, water jug, etc. on the shell shelf, which would block some of the window. Other times, we'll have less gear with and it would be almost wide open.

We know that, while sitting in the side dinette, we are not going to have horizon views and will be looking down towards the ground due to height of windows and seating height, but still, it's a bit more open view than a wall. Ha. And, while seated at the side dinette, the angle we view out the drivers side window is a bit better angle than through the passenger side window we'll be immediately right next to. We sat in a shell with side dinette and windows on both side so have a bit of a feel with how the view angles pan out and the extra window does seem to add a bit of openness.

Another thought on ventilation; We could use whichever side (drivers or passenger side) window happens to not be exposed to the elements. Meaning, if it's windy and rainy, pick the side that will not have rain driving in the window. Or if sunny and hot, open the side that is on the shaded side as to pull in potentially slightly cooler air rather than the hot air from the sunny side. Some of this may not be applicable if one used an awning or tarp on the passenger side, but just an observation.
 
I don't think I'm typical but I rarely find myself looking out the lower windows. Soft side windows are another story, hate it when weather keeps them closed. Inside I'm either sleeping or doing something. Stuck inside I'm probably reading or otherwise occupied. The rear window is adequate for checking on conditions.
 
I have had a couple FWC over the years, with different floorplans and window arrangements. In my first one, I had it on a standard cab truck, and used the passenger side window to view oncoming traffic (looking through the rear window of the truck, front window and side window of camper). I recall always being sure the sight path was clear when loading.

Other than that, the lower windows, in the camper body, were never used to view out of, since they were below the normal line-of-sight when seated in the camper.

Ventilation is a big need at certain times. Sometimes I do open the lower glass windows in order to increase the potential of air flow. Most times I get by with the front camper window and the ones in the soft side. The front window, on mine, never lets in water, and is ideal for ventilation in inclement weather.

Just another perspective to consider, to hopefully help you make the decision that is right for you and the way you will use the camper. If you do get the drivers side window and find you don't need it much, that one is easily covered with Reflectix-type insulation to negate any loss of insulation and privacy, while still allowing the occasional use of the window.
 
We have the driver's side window in our 2014 Hawk shell (with a front dinette that we built) and though you can't see much out of it unless one of us is sleeping down, it does give a feeling of space and connection to the outdoors that we love.
 
We have the large windows on both sides of our shell and like them. As others have said- not so much for looking out but for light and ventilation. Having said that, the upper windows provide plenty of light and ventilation, especially in combination with the vent fans. We have a small, fixed center window in the front which allows a sight line out the back of the camper from inside the truck which is very nice for backing up and checking traffic behind while driving. It would be nice if it opened into the cab but it doesn't and I'm not sure we would use it much if it did.
 
I thought about extra windows too, but in the end ordered my 2016 Hawk shell without. I made white curtains for the passenger side window. They let a lot of light through and most of the time they stay drawn.

My stuff tends to end up on the ledge in front of where the driver's side window would be, so it would often be blocked.

The soft top windows let in plenty of light and a nice cross breeze.

In chilly weather the passenger side window makes a cold spot for the person sleeping on the lower bed, and two windows would presumably increase your need for heating.

For insulation and ventilation I ordered the thermal pack plus a second roof vent, and would recommend both. I just returned from a desert trip where we managed to sleep in 100F heat with the Fantastic Fan running on low all night.

I hope this helps with your decision!
 
Bumping this for any additional opinions/thoughts. Right now our Hawk shell build sheet has no small drivers side window. I do like the idea of the camper having more natural light and feeling more 'open' but we are going to build a platform for our toddler to sleep on lengthwise by the front (like a front dinette in the bed position) and I like the idea of his head not being next to a window on chilly nights.
 
Kids don't stay toddler very long. Older s/he might want ventilation on warm nights or to see out.
It's easy to insulate the window: I have a 1/2" polyiso plug that fits the window opening with plywood replacing the screen. Easily removable.
 
I have large windows on both sides of my Panther shell. I like the additional light and cross breezes it creates. My prior Hawks didn't have the driver side window and I often felt like I was sitting in a cave. Another benefit for me is when I hear something nearby I don't have to sit and wonder what it is and get up to go look out the door. It's true that if you have your head near the window you can feel the cold. I used to stuff insulation within the window frame to eliminate those cold spots for cold weather camping but in the name of keeping things simple I don't bother with it anymore.

Congrats on taking the plunge whatever your decision(s) are!!
 
I rarely sit inside without the top popped so I don't miss the window. Plenty of light/visibility once the top is up.
 
About six nights now for me in three years. Two times for stealth, once for wind, and three times I stopped at a rest area to sleep for a few hours and simply wanted to sleep and then hit the road again.
 
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