Winter Use FWC/ATC

[sledskiing]

Hello All,

I am a Newbie to WTW and considering a FWC or ATC as my next camper. I've had a few campers in my time. I started out with a Palomino and have had 2 LiteCrafts. Currently I have a NorthStar Hardside camper. I am not a heavy offroader but definitely prefer the way a pop up drives vs a hardside. My truck is a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD SB.

I do a lot of "extreme" winter camping. I say extreme because it can get pretty cold out. For winter use I have never had a problem with either of my Lite-Crafts and the Northstar is the tits, being that it is a hardside.

Wondering how the FWC/ATC's do for winter use. Some of my concerns are:
- Insulating value of the pop up material: The Palomino sucked it was just fabric and the litecrafts were 2 layers of a weblon material with a closed cell foam sandwiched inbetween. The litecrafts did pretty well.
- Pop Up Lift Mechanism: How is lifting the pop up of a FWC or ATC with Snow/Ice on the roof? The lift mechanisms of these campers are very different from the other ones I have had
- Condensation: I know it is hard to eliminate but I could make it rain in the Lite-Craft and in the Northstar it would stay dry with 2 adults and 2 dogs.
- Looks: I know how cheesy to worry about looks but how does one of these campers look on a Dodge QuadCab. The cabover's of these campers seem a little on the short side. That was the case with my Palomino and I thought it looked awkward.

Overall I am trying to find the best of both worlds (aren't we all). 1/2 of my camping is during winter months. I do believe in the concept that lighter is better (eventhough I have airbags).

I am considering FWC, ATC & Northstar as I feel they can offer the best overall $VALUE$.

Some options I will be including are
- How Water
- Outside Shower
- Eliminate Fridge and replace with 12V cooler
- Wave 3 Catalytic Heater (keeps temps more consistent)

Sorry for the long post. Below are some pics of my previous campers for your viewing pleasure

Palomino:

Lite-Craft

NorthStar:

 

[pods8]

I just picked mine up this year and had it out on baker once to get a winter baseline. It became apparent that I needed new door seal in the wind, haha. But I replaced those and I think I'm going to put a foam board under the camper in my truck bed. For the pop up area I'd suggest either an artic pack from the manufacturer or make a fleece liner or such (I'm probably going to make a fleece on up for this coming winter). Also some folks have made cutouts for the windows of that reflexive stuff (foil line bubble wrap stuff) and reported that helped a lot when placed over the windows.

I didn't think condensation was too bad.

I'm running a 2003 dodge quad cab for visual reference:

 

[sjv]

Chris,

You need the XP Camper. You know you want it...

-steve

 

[telemike]

that's a sweet rig

oh, how I would love a custom utility bed with tons of storage and a pop-up on top

 

[chnlisle]

There are a few Alaskans here with FWC's. I've heard tell it gets a bit chilly up there.

 

[sledskiing]

hmm. just thought of something. How do you open up the windows in the pop up when your truck is so high off the ground. I am running 34 inch tire and 2 inch leveling kit. My other campers you could open the windows from the inside

 

[sledskiing]

Chris,

You need the XP Camper. You know you want it...

-steve

Steve, You know too much about me.

The XP is still in consideration as a shell model. We'll see what Marc finally comes up with

 

[ScottBailey]

hmm. just thought of something. How do you open up the windows in the pop up when your truck is so high off the ground. I am running 34 inch tire and 2 inch leveling kit. My other campers you could open the windows from the inside

I use my step stool to roll up the 2 rear storm windows in the morning and roll them down at night. On a 4x4 F350. Inside the camper are clear and opaque "flaps".

 

[pods8]

hmm. just thought of something. How do you open up the windows in the pop up when your truck is so high off the ground. I am running 34 inch tire and 2 inch leveling kit. My other campers you could open the windows from the inside

Depends on if whatever year camper you get even has them (new FWC's don't use storm flaps anymore for instance, however the ATC's still do). But I have a two step stool that sits behind my rig for jumping in/out (more for the lady but its enjoyable to have) so I just carry that around to roll the windows up. At 6' I have no issues putting the windows up so I can't imagine the slightly larger ties/leveling kit causing issue if you're similar sized. If I'm only traveling for the day or whatever I leave them rolled up when I drop the top so I don't have to deal with rolling them up/down. I put them down when I air it out after a trip and then package it back up till the next jaunt.

Edit: On other issue I forgot to answer on your original post, the roofs are rated for 1000lb so that's a fair amount of snow, and they can take some strong winds as well. I was on Baker and winds were whipping at night and I woke up numerous times worried only to turn on a light to see the camper wasn't showing any signs of strain. Once when airing the rig out in the winter we got a load of snow while I was at work, I came home to 3-4" of HEAVY wet snow on the roof, you could visually see it was sagging a tad but rebounded fine after I pushed the snow off. I could see quite a few inches of dry snow being a non-issue.

 

[mtn-high]

The newer FWC "storm flaps" are on the inside vs. the outside. In my Hawk (from inside out) it's a flap of the grey topper material..then a clear vinyl window flap...then the screening. The screening will take more abuse from the weather in this set up but it will see less abuse from abrasion/zippers/etc from the inside. Either way...my wife wouldn't be happy going out @ night putting the flaps up if they were mounted on the outside...LOL.

On the subject of Winter camping... do you/did you leave you water system charged all winter in your N-star hardside/Pali? I live in the Central rockies where it's routinely well below freezing for about 6 months out of the year and I drain my system down...meaning all winter camping is hauling a jug or two of water/etc. and no hot showers/hot water/etc. I'm not sure anyone has ever kept one up and running in sub-freezing temps for a long period of time(??) that I've read about here. IMO...a lot of what you will experience will depend on whether or not you LIVE IN the mountains/sub-freezing temps...or just visit to camp/ski/etc and then return to lower elevatiions (weenies!) LOL.

As far as camping in cold temps....we found that the propane heater would run us out most nights once we got set up. however...those matteresses are darn cold after a long/cold drive....LOL. We've camped down to 10F...and while we have the factory "Arctic Pak" extra insulation/etc...we never dug it out or felt like we needed to put it on. (I'm sure would have saved propane though that isn't an issue for us on short trips)

snow load....we had a good week of HEAVY WET snow here this Spring...unlike anyhting I can remember in 25 years. Day after day of 5-10"... and the Hawk did AOK...I just went out with a brooom and gave it a light push on the incline of the driveway and the stuff was so heavy it splatted right off. "Powder" is no issue...and we had a buncha that this Winter also. LOL.

good luck whatever you decide

mtn

 

[pods8]

The newer FWC "storm flaps" are on the inside vs. the outside. In my Hawk (from inside out) it's a flap of the grey topper material..then a clear vinyl window flap...then the screening. The screening will take more abuse from the weather in this set up but it will see less abuse from abrasion/zippers/etc from the inside. Either way...my wife wouldn't be happy going out @ night putting the flaps up if they were mounted on the outside...LOL.


Do some of the old ones have zippers? I know my sideliner was replaced at some point 200X? according to the owner (don't have have the sticky stuff on the Velcro!) but mine is basically the same as yours but with one extra velcro flap of the sideliner material on the outside.

So in our case we just raise those flaps the first day of a trip when we set the rig up and leave them up the duration unless bad weather comes along. None of this nightly running out there business.

 

[zonker]

If you really wanted to know if a FWC/ATC works in the winter... you might want to track down the folks from Turtle Expedition fame. They crossed Siberia in the middle of winter with a FWC and a Ford truck. They are supposed to be pretty good folks.. so I imagine an email to them would elicit a response.

 

[craig333]

hmm. just thought of something. How do you open up the windows in the pop up when your truck is so high off the ground. I am running 34 inch tire and 2 inch leveling kit. My other campers you could open the windows from the inside

With great difficulty. Standing on something wobbly, hanging onto the window frame, using a stick and wondering why I still don't carry a step ladder.

 

[pods8]

With great difficulty. Standing on something wobbly, hanging onto the window frame, using a stick and wondering why I still don't carry a step ladder.

Its your friend:

 

[Phird05]

Hey sledskiing,

Don't forget about Hallmark. I just purchased a Hallmark Milner LX, and am totally statisfied beyond my expectations. The Milner is designed for the SB's and the weight is not an issue for my 5.4L. They are less weight than Northstar, but be careful with your concerns over weight when making your decisions, the weight issue is not all you would think it is when talking to various folks. That's all I have to say about that. I guess what I am saying is, if you think one camper is heavier than the other, don't worry about a couple hundred pounds if you like the heavier one....go with what you like not what somebody is trying to sell you. I was sold on a FWC Hawk model but decided on the Hallmark Milner LX for several reasons I don't want to discuss in an open forum. PM me if you would like to know the reasons I chose Hallmark. Anyway, I researched pop ups for roughly three years before finally pulling the trigger on the Hallmark. It's awesome.

Good luck with your choice.

Paul

 

[jeffyg]

picked up my camper in december of this year... did a trip up to hyder alaska spent a few nights in it at -15F (-26C)

no arctic pack, had my -12C(older bag) bag on the top bunk not pulled out so i doubled up the mattress and one buddy sleeping on the couch bed

poached some power from the tourist center so i could plug in my diesel and a 110 ceramic little cube fan (20 dollar heater) and although it wasn't toasty it was pretty darn good for sleeping. had the little ceramic heater cranking all night

going to make my own arctic pack this fall probably and a few little foamies to cover the window

but yes it can be done in relative comfort.

i have since spend a few weeks straight at around freezing and a little under and with the furnace on the lowest setting (A) i am amazed at how long the propane lasts tripping in and out ( how well my 12 deep cycle house battery does and (C) how cosy it keeps it. noise isnt an issue with my earplugs in

furnace is a must have option in my opinion... especially in canada! eh

edited to add: actually we were sled skiing!

 

[sledskiing]

Hey sledskiing,

Don't forget about Hallmark. I just purchased a Hallmark Milner LX, and am totally statisfied beyond my expectations. The Milner is designed for the SB's and the weight is not an issue for my 5.4L. They are less weight than Northstar, but be careful with your concerns over weight when making your decisions, the weight issue is not all you would think it is when talking to various folks. That's all I have to say about that. I guess what I am saying is, if you think one camper is heavier than the other, don't worry about a couple hundred pounds if you like the heavier one....go with what you like not what somebody is trying to sell you. I was sold on a FWC Hawk model but decided on the Hallmark Milner LX for several reasons I don't want to discuss in an open forum. PM me if you would like to know the reasons I chose Hallmark. Anyway, I researched pop ups for roughly three years before finally pulling the trigger on the Hallmark. It's awesome.

Good luck with your choice.

Paul

Hey Paul, I'm very familiar with Hallmark. IMO they have the best fit and finish for campers on the market hands down. They are pricey & yes i know the whole weight thing can be misleading. I will probably give Matt or Randy a call as I get closer. I really like their new K2 design

I've met multiple times all the pop up manufactures in Colorado (hallmark, outfitter, Lite-Craft, Phoenix). We are very lucky to have such great choices here

 

[sledskiing]

edited to add: actually we were sled skiing!

ahh.... well you can see from my name i like sledding and skiing. Well mostly sledding nowadays. I'm addicted

 

[jeffyg]

haha thats the way it goes man! as the sleds got faster and more badass the skis started to stay home...

 

[Phird05]

You're right, we do have a lot of choices, and damn, that makes it very difficult when it's time to pull the trigger and make a decision....to a point. I am confident however that I made the right choice for me. My daughter and I have really enjoyed the Milner, and I can't think of anything I would want to change. I do think I would like to add the awning though, as I spend a lot of time in the desert and along the rivers and it would be nice to have the awning to sit under and enjoy the cold ones. I'll probably add that before the summer is over.

Paul