Full build - Reconstructing a 1981 Grandby into a custom Hawk!

Poky, on your slide out for the bed, it looks like a 1x3 or 1x4 mounted to the outside edge. If my term is correct, did you "dato" the 1x so the plywood is in a groove? The original slide out on mine has an aluminum angle to stiffen it. I'm thinking a 1x3 or 1x4 with it dato'ed to accept the plywood would be stronger and better looking. I'm also going with the wood supports on each side, rather than the fold down legs of the original. Ron

Ron,

Yes, I used a 1 x 4 oak board, dado cut a 1/2" groove for the 1/2" plywood, notched the corners flat with the plywood, and routered a round edge to smooth it out. I only used glue, no nails or staples to attach. Pretty straightforward. Keep up the good work on yours!

Pokybro, nice job. jd

Hey Poky, Changing things up and laying off the sewing temporarily and starting to work on my lift panels. I may have mentioned it to you before, but the distance between the center of the roof hinge rivets is 114 inches, and the distance between the center of the body hinge rivets is 116 inches. I knew the hinges couldn't be equal distance on top and bottom panels for the roof to fold properly. I messed around with the hinge distance so when they folded I'd have about an inch difference. One inch on each panel would make up the 2 inch overall distance. I keep going back to this thread to see how you built your's. On this page, http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/12116-new-build-1981-grandby-to-become-a-hawk/page-7 you stated that your lower panel hinge distance was between 1/2 and 5/8 larger. Low and behold, when I checked mine, the lower panels hinge was 1/2 inch more than the top. I'm building a pair out of under layment plywood to make sure they work, before building a permanent set. This first one is extra large, in case I make mistakes. I think I have it worked out now and will cut it to proper size and build another one to make sure everything folds right. Here's a picture that shows them folded, and with the 1/2 distance between the hinges and the fact that one lays vertical while the other horizontal, it makes up the 1 inch I need on each end to fold properly. In the picture they aren't laying flat, that's because I'm using nuts and screws to hold it together temporarily. It's get's interesting when you don't have the originals to work with! I've also mounted and wired my electric jacks. That went very well as I have done 2 truck campers previously.

Ron,

Thanks for sending the photo of your lift panel arrangement. Looks and sounds good.

I swear there's got to be an exact measurement out there somewhere that would help anyone making new lift panels, from scratch, get it right the first time.

If anyone reading this has a lift paneling still intact, and off your camper, do us a favor and fold it in half and take a picture like shellback has here, of the overlap when folded, and even better, measure the amount of overlap on the long side piece of panel. Is it exactly 1/2" or slightly less or slightly more? Once you know that critical piece of information, I believe you could probably make them whatever height you choose.

My panels work, but the rear one doesn't fold completely flat when the roof is down, but nothing I can't live with.


The fold-over I went with was about 1/4" I think, probably not quite enough. But when the top sat down on the camper on both ends, I said "good enough! "

I'll maintain that for the best outcome, its probably best to match new pieces of lift panel wood with old ones, tracing them, matching the rivet holes, and all measurements. Like you, Ron, I'm afraid I didn't have that available. Keep us posted how it comes together. we'll cross our fingers for you!

Poky

A fellow has a panel for sale here on the board. I texted him and hoping he can give me a measurement. I replaced the nuts and screws on my prototype with rivets, and it now folds flat. Wanted to avoid doing that as I'll have to drill them out to reuse the hinges on my finish panels. I sent an email to FWC and referenced this thread. I hope someone there can give me an answer also. If they still make lift panels for older campers, they would have to have this info.

Dusty Roads who is selling a panel returned my text and is going to try and get the measurements I need. That's great news, because FWC wasn't any help. They said they couldn't give me the info as it's a patented product. They also said they don't have plans for the old campers, and if I wanted them to custom build new one's @$445 each, I would have to provide all the measurements. Seems like ATC is much more helpful to folks with older campers. Were some of their employees old FWC folks?

Porky and Shellback.

Maybe I wasn't around when you were discussing this before, or I might have just missed it. But I have one old lifter panel.

I can take any measurments you need. Give me specifics and I can pull the tape measure a few times no problem. I'll post photos or video of whatever dimensions you think you need.

- Tim

I have the front lift off my 86 Keystone right now. When collapsed the shorter section connected to the roof will fold 0.40" below the larger bottom section. The bottom section is 70x20.75 and the upper section piano hinge is 12" center to center from the piano hinge that attaches to the lower camper. Upper section is 11.375" x 70" and there are 2 1.5" 0.125" aluminum reinforcing straps riveted 20" on center. These get a piece of 0.125" foam rubber to buffer them from the top. Clear as mud?

Marty an ATC very generously gave me some info on building the panels. AZ Nick is right on with the panel size measurements for a Keystone. The Hawk, Grandby, Blazer and Bronco panels a 1 inch taller at 12 3/8's and 21 3/4's. He gave me a length of 69 inches. He instructed me to mount the center hinge on the top panel first, then place the bottom panel so the overall height was 25 5/16. I built the panel that way, but don't have the .040 overlap that AZ Nick has. Mine is about .025, which doesn't give me what I thought I needed for them to fold properly. I don't have factory hinges though. I'm heading to Canada in the morning but will set the roof and try everything out when I return and post the results. I'm just working with mock up panels now, and will built permanent ones out of composite material.

Living The Dream said:

Porky and Shellback.

Maybe I wasn't around when you were discussing this before, or I might have just missed it. But I have one old lifter panel.

I can take any measurments you need. Give me specifics and I can pull the tape measure a few times no problem. I'll post photos or video of whatever dimensions you think you need.

- Tim

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The critical measurement I believe is the fold over distance. My roof is 114 inches between hinge rivet holes. The body rivet holes are 116 inches apart. If the panels were built with equal distance between the hinges, they wouldn't fold all the way down. You have to take into consideration that the bottom hinge mounts vertically, and the top hinge horizontal. That makes up about 1 inch of the distance between rivet holes. I think the other inch has to be made up by the placement of the center hinge. AZ Nick shows an overlap of the bottom panel by .040. The centerline between the top hinge pin and the center hinge pin should be about .040 less the the centerline of the bottom hinge pin and the center hinge pin. If you could give me the distance between centerlines top and center, and bottom and center, that would let me know if I thinking properly.

Hi Tim and Ron,

As presented above, I think the several measurements important to proper function of the lift panel have been requested, and AZ-Nick may have have given us what we need. I'll restate things in my words from my perspective, and perhaps Tim, you could verify from your panel the measurements we're after.

When assembling the panels, there is the top piece of board that is 12 inches (plus or minus), so please measure that piece, #1. The bottom section that is triangular, has an overall height, 21 3/4" (plus or minus) Please measure that dimension, #2.

When the unit is assembled, it has an overall height of around 24 inches (plus or minus), from edge to edge of the wood, what is that measurement? #3.

Now with the panel folded in half, and pressed as flat as possible, how much overlap is there? Measurement #4. As the pictures on the previous page show about 1/4" overlap each, is it slightly more at 3/8-1/2" of an overlap? that is the verification we're after. Perhaps you will get 0.40" as AZ-Nick did.

When assembling the panels, I installed the hinge on both sides of the narrow top portion or board, of the panel first. I added the hinge to the bottom edge of the triangular bottom portion next. Attaching the two sections together is where this critical measurement comes into play. Is it simply measuring overall height as given earlier? Perhaps if all the board dimensions are correct. If they're off at all, then that will effect how much of an overlap you have when they are folded. So again, #4 measurement, the overlap when the panel is folded, is the key measurement we're trying to verify.

I hope that makes sense. I don't have the exact measurements of my panels as I'm out of town, thus the generalizations I gave above.

Thanks Tim (and AZ-Nick), for your willingness to help.

If you want to add a picture of the folded panel, with overlap, that would be awesome.

Poky

A couple more thoughts for those making the panels from scratch. You should see 3 rivets on your tent, those go to a 5" piece of elastic that connects to the middle hinge in order to pull the tent in when you collapse the roof. Also worth mentioning, the hinges are all spring loaded but I'm not sure that's makes any difference. I can't seem to add a image but if you want to email me I can send you a drawing of how the hinges and panels layout. It's just a quickie because I'm behind on other projects but should clarify things for you. ntw at 356 racing dot com

I'm wondering if fore/aft 1" box aluminum attached to the exterior of the roof wouldn't beef up the roof frame. Also, could such a channel serve as foundation for attaching solar panels or racks? Just curious if anyone has tried this.

Jeff...
Laramie, WY

PokyBro said:

I spent most of my time over the weekend focusing on the roof.

In considering the way the ribs, and cross support EMT was originally done, it just seemed flimsy to me, and when I consider the possibility of snow weight, I thought I would add some additional cross member pieces, with the belief that tying the ribs together better, would provide a stronger overall structure, because adjacent ribs would help carry the load. I'm not trying to re-engineer everything, but as I go along, I figured it doesn't hurt to try things. Before, it was just the sheeting that kept the ribs separated. So, off to the metal store I went again, to get a length of 1 inch square tubing, and to HD for L-brackets. I know this adds a few pounds to the roof, but I felt it was worth it in the end. As it turns out, it does feel substantially more capable of carrying any weight better. My camper roof is rather short at 10 feet, with only a 3 foot cab overhang, but I'm kind of planning on adding lift assistance struts anyhow. Here's the before and after shots of the roof cross members. The ones I added were each cut individually, and then installed with the L-brackets, and #8 x 3/4" hex screws.

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Sent from my iPad using Wander The West

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I got a couple mock up panels built and installed them today. They folded down properly. Granted I had no canvas sides yet, but hopefully that won't change how they fold. My top panel is 12 3/8 inches tall. The hinge barrel for the top and middle hinge is mounted tight to the edge of the panel. The height of the bottom panel isn't critical, but the placement of where the center hinge is critical. I mounted the bottom hinge barrel tight to the bottom of the lower lift panel, then positioned the center hinge barrel exactly 13 inches from the bottom hinge barrel. This was done due to the distance between the rivet holes on the roof and the rivet holes on the body. Front to back there was a 2 inch difference on my camper. The body having the longer distance. The roof hinge mounts on a horizontal surface, and the body hinge mounts on a vertical surface. When folded the horizontal roof hinge rivet holes had to be 1 inch more to the inside than the vertical body hinge. In this picture you can see that the bottom hinge is vertical, and the distance to the top hinge rivet holes is 1 inch. The 1 inch corrected for the different measurements between the roof hinge mount and body hinge mount. I have about 75 inches standing room, floor to roof.

Philos65 (Jeff),

I suppose one could attach 1" square tube stock, front to back, on the exterior of the roof to beef it up, but if attaching with screws, in my mind it would be challenging to seal adequately to prevent leakage. My roof has 1" runners internally, and I chose to add five more ribs and connected them, side by side, to the five existing ribs, thereby giving added strength for load bearing, and keeping it all internal. You can find that in my thread.

Good luck with your project.

Poky

Shellback,

Thanks for your last post of how your lift panels came together, and the measurements you used. That should help anyone with questions on proper measurements of the panels.

Poky

I built one mock up exactly to the dimensions Marty gave me, to have an overall height of 25 5/16. But I didn't get the 1 inch offset I wanted. So I moved the center hinge up on the bottom panel 1/4 inch, and landed up with 26 inches in height. Keep in mind I'm not using factory hinges, so that may be the reason for the difference.

I've had trouble getting photos up lately, so haven't posted in awhile. However, tonight I seem to have gotten things to work again, I hope.

Well I didn't get much accomplished over the summer months on my camper, due to other commitments, in preparing an estate home for sale in Nevada. Its also been difficult without all my tools gathered together in one place. That being said, I solved enough of the tool problem to get going, and I have started to attack things again just recently.

One problem I encountered was a short in my rear marker lights, that you-know-who was responsible for installing. I had to remove the interior paneling on the drivers side, and the rear wall, which included unhooking the lift panel. I cut bigger holes in the aluminum frame, found the short, strung a bit of new wire, and got it sorted out. It was a smart thing to screw the paneling on for just this purpose, vs a more permanent manner of fastening. I'm in the process of beginning the interior galley cabinetry, so this wiring issue needed to be fixed first.

First though, I decided to tackle the bed cushions awhile back, so at least the shell could be used.

The following photos show the process of gathering some cushion foam, from a place in Las Vegas, called Galaxy Foam and upholstery supplies. Thought you might enjoy the process of getting a mattress pad cut to size.






Here are my cushions after sewing them up on the same sewing machine I used for my side liner. I didn't do step by step photos, because its just as easy to watch the how to video on Sailrite's web page (http://www.sailrite.com/How-to-make-a-Box-Cushion-Video), how to video for sewing a box cushion.





I went with a three inch cushion by choice, in hopes I can close the top with my sleeping gear still laid out. I chose a medium/ firm density, that is comfortable to me. Galaxy calls it HR30, and it was about $120, so not so bad. They will cut the foam to whatever thickness, and dimension you wish, and they even cut the smaller batons from the main piece for me at no extra charge. The big band saw pictured slices through the foam like butter, very cool!

I bought the fabric a long time ago on a sale, and have plenty left for the side dinette cushions later on.