07 Dodge Diesel is rough rider - suspension help

[ThinAir]

Just upgraded to an 07 CTD with 80k on it. It's a 5.9. Anyway I test drove several like this and it was obvious this truck needed some typical front end work. So I've ordered the new "T" style steering linkage, and a new steering stabilizer along with a steering box brace. Truck has new moog upper and lowers as well as axle drive u joints. My beef other than the wandering that I'll hopefully take care of here is that it jolts the passenger when hitting highway bumps. I'm thinking the shocks may be shot with 80k and they appear to be stock shocks. At the same time I'll be needing new tires to go on the stock 17" rims.

What I'd like to do is to get some sage advice on acquiring the proper solution for shocks and tires for my intended purpose of utilizing the rig as a truck camper with either a FWC Hawk or ATC Ocelot shell type camper. Therefore it will most likely always have a load on the ass end to the tune if 700lbs or so. Lets start with I'm at a point in life where a more plush ride would be welcome. Before you say I should have gone to a Duramax for the ride, or a Ford, I've made the decision for Dodge for a couple of important advantages to the truck, now just need to tweek it as best as I can and without dumping tons of $$$ into elaborate suspension parts.

Shocks and tires is as far as I'll go. So for a plush ride up front and carrying weight in the back, does anyone have experience with this truck camper combo that could shed some light. I use the truck in Bozeman MT in the winter running up and down canyon roads (tires) in the snow for access to water ice for climbing, and similar off road forays to rock haunts in the summer.

Was looking at Bilstein, Rancho, and Edelbrock as this is what seems to come up on searches. I'd even consider one brand up front and another in the rear. Perhaps Bilsteins up front for softening the blows to the front end by the smallest bumps, and Rancho's in the rear to take some weight.

Any insights, mods, tire ideas for my use including size would be welcome.

I realize that most of the time the truck will be on pavement getting from one place to another, and long distances in between for sure, hence the diesel, so tires that are as quiet, will handle the weight of the camper (E rated), and still function well in the snow and shale of the desert would be great.

Thanks a million.... Brian

 

[pods8]

Everyone says blisten 5100s so that's what I went with. The other thing you could consider if needed after the shocks/tires if you're not where you want is some softer springs. Marc said he just put a set of Lorenz on his and likes them.

This just showed up today for me:

 

[K6ON]

I did the KORE Recon suspension upgrade on my '07. I also added Carly long travel airbags in the rear.
The KORE system has new variable rate front springs, Bilstein shocks, billet drop blocks, additional spring packs for the rear, recon steering stabelizer, etc. I also added a steering box brace. The truck has a 2 ~3 inch lift with the new suspension and works great. I needed the extra suspension because I have a 1200lb Warn winch and other crap hanging off the front end, and a fully loaded Grandby on the back. I run Toyo E rated 295-70 R17 MT's.

No drift, no death wobble, and the front tires don't chunk up. 77K miles with stock ball joints...I'll put Moog's in when these go TU.

Good purchase...last of the 5.9's !! You're gonna have fun

 

[camelracer]

The weak point in the Dodge front end is usually the track bar. There are aftermarket track bars available and upgrade kits for the frame connection.

I'm running Bilstein yellow shocks and they seem to be ok. The ride is good but it is a truck.

 

[pods8]

I'm starting out by trying a set up Moog bushings in the track bar before going for a full aftermarket bar. The bushings are quite cheap in comparison so not harm/foul if they don't work that great and if they do then I've saved a few hundred.

 

[ThinAir]

Yeah, I'm happy with the decision on the Dodge short bed. Haven't chosen a camper for the back yet but I've got some time to think that one out. My last rig is up for sale right now on this site. The new Finch and the Nissan Frontier. Nice set up, just too small of a truck for our extended travels with the surplus store my co pilot drags around with her... ha ha.

Pods8, is that a new pillar with a singe guage holder? What do you plan to be monitoring in that hole? I see you stuck with the "Y" link vs. the "T" style. Do you have more than a 2" lift?

K6ON, Kore sounds great but I really don't need a lift and really don't want to pay the piper for all those goodies, but I'm sure you'll be happy you did in the end.

I think I'll just go with the new Bilstein shocks and give that a go first along with all the new front end parts I've ordered. I was hoping to get more tire info from guys with this truck and camper set up. I read somewhere that some folks are running tall and skinny tires and am wondering about the benefits and drawbacks to that method vs the std. 275 or 285 70/75 options.

Thanks for the replies, Brian

P.S. K60N... is that your truck on the front webpage of the ATC site with the Ocelot on it? Yet you mention you have a Grandby??? You must have a long bed then? Or do you have a short box and let the camper hang way over?

 

[pods8]

Pods8, is that a new pillar with a singe guage holder? What do you plan to be monitoring in that hole? I see you stuck with the "Y" link vs. the "T" style. Do you have more than a 2" lift?

Yes its an SRT pillar, I'm planning to put an Aeroforce Interceptor OBDII gauge in there which will read a bunch of parameters from the computer. It can display two at a time and I'll probably displace Trans Temp and Instantaneous MPG. Torque converter lock, current trans gear, engine load, knock retard, etc. are also all available.

Negative on the Y link, that is the new T style. My truck (new to me) has 2" leveling spacers in the front end right now, I was going to pull them out to try it as stock height but I don't have the factory stud rings that the spacer kit replaces and I just realized it the other day so for now I'll probably install the new linkage/shocks with the spacer kit in. (Anyone have a set of stock rings laying around???)

I think I'll just go with the new Bilstein shocks and give that a go first along with all the new front end parts I've ordered. I was hoping to get more tire info from guys with this truck and camper set up. I read somewhere that some folks are running tall and skinny tires and am wondering about the benefits and drawbacks to that method vs the std. 275 or 285 70/75 options.


If you want blisten 5100s the cheapest place I could find is AJUSA.com at $75ea plus 10% off making them $67.5 plus free shipping. The steering stablizer was on back order and since I didn't want to wait till mid Jan to install the steering linkage I needed to get that from summit.

I just put a set of 285/70-17s on mine. I wanted something in the 33" range and in an all terrain that is the narrowest tire available. If you go to a mud tire there is a 255/80-17 available, which Marc put on his.

 

[ThinAir]

Thanks for the info on the site for discounted Bilsteins. I don't know which part number to order yet for the rear set as I'm not sure what I'm doing back there yet. After speaking with the folks at some of the custom shops it seems like perhaps the mini spring pack might be a good choice for me if I'm planning on leaving the camper on most of the time. I'd really like for the rear suspension to have more flex and active function. Right now it would appear that the factory spring pack will contact the overload quickly, and with a camper on the back, that could be often. I'd really prefer not to have airbags, so I am considering the mini pack. I know they've received much criticism on the sites, but for my purposes they might be the ticket. That said, I don't know the effect on rear shock height if I go that route so I'll have to wait on that decision.

On the other hand the front shocks should be the 0" to 2" lift item number I would imagine...?

If I were to get a lift or heavier camper then I'd consider airbags of some sort. Really don't want to count on them though, much prefer a spring to air. Plus more articulation. I've learned that the avenue to a softer ride up front is a small lift with a variable spring, but again, I'd like to keep this simple and as close to the ground as I can get it.

I was think about a set of Hankook ATM RF10's at $265.00 a piece including mount, 5 year 50k warranty and free alignment. I have a set on my Frontier and really like them. I would be open to other suggestions as well.

 

[pods8]

I went with the 0-2" lift front shocks and 0-1" lift rear shocks. My thought is down the line even if I tweaked the rear height it wouldn't me more than an inch or so and the shock would probably still work. If not it's not a huge cost/labor to change out a rear shock, plus at low miles the 0-1" size could probably get resold pretty easily for a portion of the original cost. For the fronts I definitely went 0-2" because the next size up cuts it pretty close to bottoming out on a stock power wagon (which has a 2" lift) when the wheel is tucked, so I read.

How much lift will a minipack do?

I went with Nitto Terra Grapplers, opinions to be determined still. I had my local discount tire do some price matching and I haggled a bit too. Ended up being $1030 out the door with the extended warranty.

 

[K6ON]

Brian,
Yes, that's my truck on ATC's web page. We set Gene's new ATC on the truck for the photo's. I do have a short bed with one of those "other" campers on it I leave the tailgate down and it works just fine. When I was looking for a camper, I had my choice of a long or short camper and liked the extra space in the larger one.

I had forgotten that I also have the one piece heavy duty track bar. Dodge changed it under warranty at about
20K miles when the truck suddenly started pulling badly to the right and an alignment wouldn't correct it.

 

[ThinAir]

Oh goody goody, now you can tell me this. I suspect from your photo on the ATC site that the Ocelot fits like a glove on the Dodge vs. a Hawk. The Hawk appears to leave more space between the bedrail top and the bottom of the camper where it extends over the box. Also the Hawk seems to have a bigger gap (air catcher) between the top of the truck cab and the overhang/bed of the camper. Any thoughts on fit when you put the Ocelot on? Perhaps I should have p.m'd this.

Next question is on how the truck handles the length of the Grandby hanging past the rear axle as much as it does? I would imagine it hangs a foot and a half past the truck bed end and 3/4's of the way to the end of your tail gate eh?

I have a finch right now at 70" and the Hawk is just 8" longer and doesn't "feel" that much bigger than the Finch. Of course the Hawk is wider like the Grandby, but man I too would like more camper room now that I have a truck that might handle it.

Going to take a good hard look at an Ocelot this time around.

 

[pods8]

Also the Hawk seems to have a bigger gap (air catcher) between the top of the truck cab and the overhang/bed of the camper.


My 2000 hawk only had 1.5" of gap between the top of my cab on the dodge 1500 I just got rid of and the camper. I believe the 2500 is the same exact specs.

 

[ThinAir]

My 2000 hawk only had 1.5" of gap between the top of my cab on the dodge 1500 I just got rid of and the camper. I believe the 2500 is the same exact specs.


Good to know, good fit then. Does the Grandby feel that much bigger to you? Much mo better than the Hawk?

 

[ThinAir]

In the end here's what I ended up doing. First off I found out that there were Timbrens on the front end and that was the major contributor to the harsh ride. Then the spending began.

New T-Link drag link and tie rod. $320.00
New Steering Stabilizer $80.00
New BD Steering Brace $200.00
New Dynatrac Ball Joints $650.00
New Bilstein 5100 shocks $320.00
New Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10 285/70/17 $1,000

And it still wandered on the road, so

New Red Hat steering box. $350.00

Wfeew! That was rough on the old wallet.

Still rides rough, but much much better. Can't wait to put the new Hawk on it to weight it down a bit.

Put some new stock seat foam bottoms and covers on, added heated seats, and HID lights. Ready to roll now.

 

[panzerkw]

I had a terrible clunk in my front end and I went the complete dynatrac route.

If you want to take care of the rest of your steering wander do the LAZARSMITH.COM zero deflection trac bar bushings.

I did and the clunk went away and the steering doesn't wander.

you can see my thresad on http://www.carsondodge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=835.

I went with the 09 steering box along with the 09 pitman arm. straight bolt up.

I got my box from PSC but you can get them cheaper on line.

Don't go for the Borgeson steering shaft. If you look at your steering shaft it is actually pretty well made.

get the LAZARSMITH.COM zero deflection trac bar install on your current track bar and you won't regret it. low cost fix for a very bothersome problem.

My truck clunked so bad it felt as though someone underneath my truck was hitting the floor board with a large mallet. That bad!!

No one could diagnoise the issue until I tried the trackbar bushing then VaVoom no more clunk

Good luck with the truck

05 3500 qc 4x4 with 07FWC
full dynatrac kit with dynalocs and ball joints and new Axel ujoints.
tru trac front diff at the same time.
250 amp alternator
dual batts in the FWC

 

[ThinAir]

I had a terrible clunk in my front end and I went the complete dynatrac route.

If you want to take care of the rest of your steering wander do the LAZARSMITH.COM zero deflection trac bar bushings.

I did and the clunk went away and the steering doesn't wander.

you can see my thresad on http://www.carsondodge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=835.

I went with the 09 steering box along with the 09 pitman arm. straight bolt up.

I got my box from PSC but you can get them cheaper on line.

Don't go for the Borgeson steering shaft. If you look at your steering shaft it is actually pretty well made.

get the LAZARSMITH.COM zero deflection trac bar install on your current track bar and you won't regret it. low cost fix for a very bothersome problem.

My truck clunked so bad it felt as though someone underneath my truck was hitting the floor board with a large mallet. That bad!!

No one could diagnoise the issue until I tried the trackbar bushing then VaVoom no more clunk

Good luck with the truck

05 3500 qc 4x4 with 07FWC
full dynatrac kit with dynalocs and ball joints and new Axel ujoints.
tru trac front diff at the same time.
250 amp alternator
dual batts in the FWC


I negated to mention that I too put in new track bar bushings, the one's Geno's Garage sells. Also put new Spicer U-Joints in the axle.

 

[panzerkw]

good for you on the track bar bushings.

I'm not familiar with the Geno Garage model. They always have good stuff.

My track bar bushings looked new, no cracks, no signs of wear nothing.

If you still have alot of wander you might try the lazersmith website and see what they say about the material in the bushings. I was too the point of not driving the vehicle.

My truck always wandered straight from thedealership. I too have the updated steering linkage. That helped but the two items that helped out themost were the ball joints and the tb bushings.

Now for me its time for the front coils and shockes as i have a little more bounce than usual.


I'm glad you will enjoy your truck

Cheers

 

[pods8]

I chatted with one of the bigger aftermarket dodge suspension guys about stiff bushings in the track bar. He pointed out the axle doesn't move completely linearly and thus the bar twists a little so just putting still bushings in the bar isn't a long term solution as they'll wear out. That is why the better aftermarket bars have a hemi joint on the one end.

How much this has an affect on a stock rig verse a lifted one I don't know. There is also some flex in the stock bar which the heavy walled DOM tube aftermarket ones should help with. Again how much does this play out on a stock rig I'm unsure. I'd be pretty inclined to try the lazar bushings if they were about half the price they actually are. Where they're priced right now you're 1/3 of the price to a full after market adjustable bar, which should never really wear out the bushings and provides flexibility if you do any lift/leveling down the line since it's adjustable.

I've got moog bushings in my stock bar right now and they've got too much slop so I'll need to make a decision sooner or later on changing those out for something. However it's drivable at the moment so I'll let funds replenish.

 

[ThinAir]

Check out the ones from Geno's Garage that I put in. It was a bitch getting the bar back in but the bushings went in easily into the bar once I got the old stock bushings out. I just hit them with a propane torch and burned them out, then punched the steel bushing keeper out with a punch. I think I'll be satisfied with these, Geno's sells stuff that works.

If I get 30,000 to 40,000 miles out of them I'd be tickled pink. Everything wears out in time. The Dynatrac's were an episode though with having Moog's (splined) in there on one side the damn axle was stretched. Had to buy some knurled/splined Dynatrac cups and have them shipped to me. Well at least I know how to rebuild a Dynatrac ball joint now... ha ha.

 

[pods8]

Check out the ones from Geno's Garage that I put in. It was a bitch getting the bar back in but the bushings went in easily into the bar once I got the old stock bushings out. I just hit them with a propane torch and burned them out, then punched the steel bushing keeper out with a punch. I think I'll be satisfied with these, Geno's sells stuff that works.


They are basically the same style as the moogs I put in. Not sure if the rubber is a little stiffer but I put a dial indicator on the frame end of my track bar and when from full steering lock on one side to full steering lock on the other and was getting 0.08" of movement in the track bar end on that side. I'd assume similar on the axle connection, which would mean under those kinds of loads there axle can walk around about 1/8" side to side which doesn't sound good to me.

Do you have access to an dial indicator do a similar check on your bushings?


I was similar but I punched out the rubber first rather than burn it out, then pushed out the sleeve.