1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton
- Thread starter trgphoto
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Stalking Light
Feral Grandpa
My Tacoma and Eagle are probably at or above the limit, but I have no problems with either the go or, more importantly to me, the stop. Don't forget your brakes if you feel like you need to beef up your suspension.
Jollyrogers
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 159
I have a 14 Ram 2500 CTD Crew Cab Laramie, and really love the truck. One big difference between it and the 3500 is the coil vs leaf springs, but the frame is the same. Disappointed in payload though. The payload on my 2500's placard is 2,103lbs. GVWR is 10K. I haven't weighed the truck, originally got it to tow a trailer, which it kicks butt at, but wanted a slide-in. When I started looking, FWC was pretty much not an option on the east coast. I looked at other options, IE Camp-Lites that came in @1600 dry. I realized real quick, that a 3/4 doesn't cut it for a slide-in if it is left stock. Once MLO started selling FWC, things changed and I went to look. Regardless, even there, once wet and loaded, I'll be right at, or just over the GVWR. Hindsight, I would have gotten a 1 ton if I was even considering a slide-in.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
In nearly every instance where insurance companies are involved and settle, NDAs are required by all parties unless the case proceeds to the conclusion of trial. And, most insurance companies do not want that to occur.enelson said:
Many insurance companies will not provide post-accident coverage if the vehicle involved in an accident was over-weight.
Most citations not involving accident or incident are equipment compliance citations.
Ignorance of one's total vehicle weight, axle and/or load bearing wheel weight will have little sympathy with an insurance company or judge for that matter.
Huh?Advmoto18 said:
None of this applies to me. My truck is registered as a passenger vehicle. The camper is just a nonpermanent load that does not even need to be registered because it is a popup.
NHTSA applies standards to manufacturers, it has nothing to do with enforcing state laws. Oregon does not have a "formula" and no one looks at the placard. Weight of a passenger vehicle is a nonissue unless it creates an obviously unsafe situation which falls under general vehicle operation. As I said before, some states have weight-based registration but that is for determining fees and is not tied to the GVWR.
Neither the many people I know who own truck campers nor the several forums devoted to truck campers cite any incident in the U.S. that involved "enforcement action" for an overweight truck camper. I'm sure there must be some special cases out there but you need to do a better job convincing me that they are relevant.
Kispiox
Senior Member
Yea, what he said!!Bigfoot said:Huh?
None of this applies to me. My truck is registered as a passenger vehicle. The camper is just a nonpermanent load that does not even need to be registered because it is a popup.
NHTSA applies standards to manufacturers, it has nothing to do with enforcing state laws. Oregon does not have a "formula" and no one looks at the placard. Weight of a passenger vehicle is a nonissue unless it creates an obviously unsafe situation which falls under general vehicle operation. As I said before, some states have weight-based registration but that is for determining fees and is not tied to the GVWR.
Neither the many people I know who own truck campers nor the several forums devoted to truck campers cite any incident in the U.S. that involved "enforcement action" for an overweight truck camper. I'm sure there must be some special cases out there but you need to do a better job convincing me that they are relevant.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
First...Bigfoot said:Huh?
None of this applies to me. My truck is registered as a passenger vehicle. The camper is just a nonpermanent load that does not even need to be registered because it is a popup.
NHTSA applies standards to manufacturers, it has nothing to do with enforcing state laws. Oregon does not have a "formula" and no one looks at the placard. Weight of a passenger vehicle is a nonissue unless it creates an obviously unsafe situation which falls under general vehicle operation. As I said before, some states have weight-based registration but that is for determining fees and is not tied to the GVWR.
Neither the many people I know who own truck campers nor the several forums devoted to truck campers cite any incident in the U.S. that involved "enforcement action" for an overweight truck camper. I'm sure there must be some special cases out there but you need to do a better job convincing me that they are relevant.
There is a lot of confusion over many aspects of vehicle weights. I was not alluding to weight-based registrations, or for that matter any registration type, private or commerical. Many states have a threshold weight limit for private ragistrations v commerical; exceed the unladen weight and/or laden weight and you have a commercial registration. Weights vary state to state.
Second...
The placard in the door jam is a legally mandated placard, referencing data on the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin and is so designated by VIN.
Third...
The NHTSA, as far as privately operated RVs are concerned, is generally a post accident/incident agency; not much unlike the NTSB. The agency generally reviews accident/incident data rather than actively involved in the investigation. However, the NHTSA does have the authority to levy fines and penalties upon operators on federal highways and some state highways.
Finally, where I am most involved, insurance companies. I challenge you to call your insurance company. Specifically ask the underwirter if your policy is valid if your pickup truck, camper and loadout exceed the GVWR published on the Manufacturer's Certifiacte or Origin.
Feel free to operate your pickup/camper at any wieght you desire. But, become involved in an accident, regardless of fault, you can very easily find yourself tied up in litigation for years. If bodily injuries are involved, expect the legal ramifications to be of greater consequences.
The GVWR is the maximum weight the MANUFACTURER has scientifically determined the vehicle can be safely operated in accordance with federal regulations. Operate exceeding that number and you are not in compliance with the law.
And as another poster stated, the weight police are not out there looking for over-weight private RV operators. But, hurt someone with your over-weight rig, even if not at fault, expect to appear before a judge. And expect a civil suit to follow. Many states allow for treble damages for such a case because you over-loaded your rig or failed to heed manfuacturer's GVWR.
We've beaten this subject into the ground...
Everyone is free to speed, drive recklessly, drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and exceed GVWR. But, doing so has considerable consequences when you are caught doing so. The decision is yours and yours alone.
Finally...
I need to convince no one of anything. Once again, the decision is yours to operate an over-weight vehicle. An attorney you retain will happily take your hard earned money trying to convice a judge, jury or insurance company why you were justified operating your vehicle over-weight (I can't think of any valid reason). Or if a civil proceding, how much your future wages/retirement will be garnished paying someone you injured with your over-weight rig for the rest of their lives.
ntsqd
Custom User Title
I bought our CTD with New Mexico plates on it. CA DMV said "weigh it". They never looked at the sticker - they didn't care what it said. They just wanted to know how much to charge me in weight fees (arguably to offset my wear and tear on 'their' roads).
We can live in fear of the gumberment or we can go on with our lives knowing that until they run out of bigger fish we're relatively secure. It is a sure bet that even the most law abiding person in this country unknowingly breaks laws every day. There are simply too many of them to know them all. The gumberment likes to say that ignorance of the law is no excuse (a condescending posture if there ever was one), I always add that it all but guarantee's non-compliance.
Ins. Co's are about profit, they don't care about anything else. Any policy pay-out affects their P&L in the negative. It costs a lot less to find the slimmest (& sometimes slimiest) reason to not pay-out than it does to pay-out on a policy. What the Right Thing To Do is doesn't factor into their equation. Yet another reason why I think insurance should be non-profit. All of it.
We can live in fear of the gumberment or we can go on with our lives knowing that until they run out of bigger fish we're relatively secure. It is a sure bet that even the most law abiding person in this country unknowingly breaks laws every day. There are simply too many of them to know them all. The gumberment likes to say that ignorance of the law is no excuse (a condescending posture if there ever was one), I always add that it all but guarantee's non-compliance.
Ins. Co's are about profit, they don't care about anything else. Any policy pay-out affects their P&L in the negative. It costs a lot less to find the slimmest (& sometimes slimiest) reason to not pay-out than it does to pay-out on a policy. What the Right Thing To Do is doesn't factor into their equation. Yet another reason why I think insurance should be non-profit. All of it.
Isn't it time for this thread to die a much needed death?
Kispiox
Senior Member
Gentlemen, there have been some good points made here. This thread has turned my head and opened my eyes. Nobody wants to cause a problem for others nor realize the consequences. Net of it is, most here, myself included, are underestimating the truck we need under even our relatively small FWCs. Net of it is, we are also at the lowest end of the camper overload totem. Yesterday, I saw a ram 1500 that was so overloaded it almost rolled over quartering a speed bump. Net of it is, being a lesser offender doesn't make it right if confronted with civil injury damages. I can tell you from a previous non camper accident, with no fault I once had to defend. It was thrown out, but still had to defend. You don't want to go there with grey area. The ensuing argument will send you to the poor house.
We have all benefitted here. I were to do it over I'd be driving a 350 instead of a f-250. The additional cost is minimal. However, I'm not, but because of this thread I am going to cut back on my weight.
I wish that I would have had the advantage of this thread when making my initial purchase.
We have all benefitted here. I were to do it over I'd be driving a 350 instead of a f-250. The additional cost is minimal. However, I'm not, but because of this thread I am going to cut back on my weight.
I wish that I would have had the advantage of this thread when making my initial purchase.
super doody
Senior Member
The owner of FWC has a Tacoma with a fully built out Fleet. I"m pretty sure its either at GVWR or above it.
This is personal decision for everyone. This subject has been heavily discussed on this forum. Its too bad the search function is horrible.
This is personal decision for everyone. This subject has been heavily discussed on this forum. Its too bad the search function is horrible.
MANXMAN
Senior Member
When I ordered my camper I wanted to put in on my Tacoma. Seemed like the perfect truck for a little pop-up camper. While I was waiting for the camper to be built, I did the math on the weights of the camper, and all that goes into it and found I was going to be over the payload capacity of the Tacoma.
So I decided to buy a F150 because it had about 600 lbs more payload than the Toyota and that would be lots extra.
Then I read about how there is no way a 1/2ton can carry a little pop-up camper. Not enough brakes and not enough power. A F250 would have been a smarter choice. Nutz.
But F250's are so close in price to a F350 there is no reason not to go the little extra and get one of those instead. More is better.....right?
I'm not waiting for someone to start a thread about how 1 tons are able to do the job of hauling that little pop-up camper but a F650 is the better choice because........well you know.
With a single rear wheel conversion, the F650 should be a winner. I hope.
So I decided to buy a F150 because it had about 600 lbs more payload than the Toyota and that would be lots extra.
Then I read about how there is no way a 1/2ton can carry a little pop-up camper. Not enough brakes and not enough power. A F250 would have been a smarter choice. Nutz.
But F250's are so close in price to a F350 there is no reason not to go the little extra and get one of those instead. More is better.....right?
I'm not waiting for someone to start a thread about how 1 tons are able to do the job of hauling that little pop-up camper but a F650 is the better choice because........well you know.
With a single rear wheel conversion, the F650 should be a winner. I hope.
Stan@FourWheel
Senior Member
snuffy
Senior Member
Stan, i like that silver ford, what is the GVWR on that bad boy? i might need to add some airbags...lol
Kispiox
Senior Member
I did ask the insurance company and all they care about is that the truck is registered in my state and that I don't break any laws.Advmoto18 said:
The GVWR is not "scientifically determined" and there are no laws that require me to keep under it. The GVWR is based on many engineering, regulatory, marketing and cost considerations. It reflects how the vehicle was built, not how it must be operated.
No kidding about, "An attorney you retain will happily take your hard earned money... ." As Will Rodgers so aptly put it, "The only way you can beat the lawyers is to die with nothing."
http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/Ford_Linc_15RVTTgde_Feb3.pdf
Ford's 2015 Trailer and towing guide for those interested. Defines and describes a lot.
Ford's 2015 Trailer and towing guide for those interested. Defines and describes a lot.
PaulT
Need gumbo
Bigfoot,
XKCD is one of my favorite black holes for time. How'd you find that one?
Paul
XKCD is one of my favorite black holes for time. How'd you find that one?
Paul
What I always find interesting or surprising about these type of threads concerning camper weight or suspension upgrades is how much lighter the older FWC were, at least mine. I have a Ranger II on a 1986 Toyota Turbo RTE pick up and it weighs 980 LBS with 3 way fridge, forced air heater, Wave 3 heater, inside/outside shower, camper battery, 350 watt Honda lunch box generator/fuel, full 5 gal propane and 12 gal water tanks, Magnum BBQ, misc tools, rope, etc., food for 2 weeks and all of my hunting and fishing gear. My truck has a payload of 1300 lbs and does not need special springs or air bags to carry the camper. I get no body sway. The 22RTE motor has been built a bit and has more than enough power to cruise @ 70 mph and still get 15mpg. The campers are getting heaver all the time which defeats the whole purpose of the pop up concept, IMO.
CWD
CWD
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