AGM deep cycle vs. AGM solar battery

I'm not concerned with weight. The lithiums still don't pencil out (to me) but I'm thinking they will by the time my AGMs need replacing. The ability to charge quickly would be really nice in poor weather. I'm curious to see if keeping the camper warm is going to do the trick.
 
Boonie said:
Score sheet:
VMax 100AH .................................1
Dual golf cart 6V 205AH.................1
Solar PG-12V103 FR (100AH?).....1
Lithium 100AH................................1

No consensus, I guess if it works for you, do it.

In sealed lead cell batteries it's the thickness of the lead plates that makes it a true "deep cycle" which means weight. To save weight and gain life cycles (but lose weight in the pocket book) go lithium.
Loose weight in the pocket book up front, but (hopefully) recoup all of the extra spending and much more by having a battery that will last 10 times longer. Of course, only time will tell at this early stage of their existence, but the theory is sound.
 
craig333 said:
I'm curious to see if keeping the camper warm is going to do the trick.
Me too. I won't find out till next ski season most likely, but I'll definitely throw my finding up here for others once I learn what they are!
 
Boonie said:
The last piece of my solar install is the storage battery. I don't know how to explain my simple understanding, but here goes...

If this is true then I do not want a dual purpose deep cycle battery either flooded cell or AGM such as an Optima "color" top. What I am looking at is a VMax SLR125 125 AH. What concerns me is the statement in their literature; "Recommended solar panel 175W-450W (120w may be used if Depth of Discharge does not exceed 50%). Even the VMAX 100 AH; "Recommended solar panel 150w-400w (100w may be used if DoD dose not exceed 50%) Since my initial array will be 120w, I am confused. I do not want to loose the capacity offered by this type of battery or somehow damage it. Is this limitation only on the VMax or is this typical of solar batteries?
There is no one set value for the amount of solar to be used because the positioning of the array and temperature affects the output. The biggest factor in charging is the Amp-Hour capacity of the battery and the relative amount of current that the charge controller can deliver. Most battery manufacturers will recommend a charge rate of 10-25% of the AH capacity of the AGM battery. In your case that would put you somewhere between 12.5 and 31.25A at for the output of the charge controller(s). If you are figuring on a total depth of discharge of 50% and want to be able to recharge in one day, and that day has let's say 4 peak hours of sun, then you'll need about 20 Amps of charge current to get the job done as there are some losses in the process.

Again, there are variables; temperature, altitude, tilt angle, and peak sun hours. If you are designing for winter use then low temperature and increased tilt can help to compensate for the lack of peak sun hours. Plan on skiing? Then the higher altitude can help due to the increase in solar intensity, if you clear the snow off of the modules. Keep in mind that a cold battery will have less capacity, which is a good reason to keep in a conditioned space.

Next you have to look at how many watts of solar it will take to get that 20 amps. A single 100 watt module will give you about 4 amps if mounted flat on the roof of a camper, perhaps a bit more if you incorporate a MPPT charge controller. Tilt mounts can increase the output a bit, but often aren't worth the extra effort or risk of increased wind load. So let's say that you go with the MPPT controller and can get about 80 watts out of your 100 watt module, at 14.4V that equates to about 5.5 Amps, but let's call it 5 Amps to be slightly conservative. Hence, you'll need 3-4 100 watt modules to get a 15-20A charge rate. Your 120 watt module will probably give you about 6 Amps of current, which will leave you undercharged unless you set up your rig to be able to charge from your vehicle alternator, a generator, or add more solar, either fixed or portable.
 
I like the way you think! However, may I get some clarification, please? With your guesstimate of 4 peak hours at 20A, that would be 80AH, right? And 50% of his chosen 125AH battery is 62 AH. Close, but you are slightly over spec'ng, right?

That said, my experience with these smaller, flexible panels is that 80% efficiency is way over stated.

End result, is that I agree with you... 4 panels or one BIG (I chose 265W) one on the roof might do it.
 
Vic Harder said:
I like the way you think! However, may I get some clarification, please? With your guesstimate of 4 peak hours at 20A, that would be 80AH, right? And 50% of his chosen 125AH battery is 62 AH. Close, but you are slightly over spec'ng, right?

That said, my experience with these smaller, flexible panels is that 80% efficiency is way over stated.

End result, is that I agree with you... 4 panels or one BIG (I chose 265W) one on the roof might do it.
Yes, the battery will need an extra 10% +/- to overcome losses in the charging process, and flat-mounted modules will likely only put out about 70% of their rated capacity under real world conditions.

I like the big module and MPPT approach, but it's not possible on many campers due to roof vents and other obstructions.
 
Gentlemen

Thanks for the insights, but the discussion has drifted from the original question. I already have a 120w flexible panel mounted flat on the roof: a 100w portable: a Zamp ZS-30AP PWM solar controller; a Bogart 2030A Trimetric solar/battery monitor. I am trying to sort out the options of available batteries to get the best true "deep cycle" capability.

Boonie
 
Sorry about the topic drift Boonie.

Back a few posts you referenced a number of 100AH batteries, are you still trying to decide between the ones listed?
 
Vic, these were the only specific batteries mentioned by other members in their response to my question. I am still wide open to all other choices. My build is still two months away :( from needing a battery so will wait until then before purchasing.
 
Boonie said:
Vic, these were the only specific batteries mentioned by other members in their response to my question. I am still wide open to all other choices. My build is still two months away :( from needing a battery so will wait until then before purchasing.



Boonie, on 07 Apr 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:
Score sheet:
VMax 100AH .................................1
Dual golf cart 6V 205AH.................1
Solar PG-12V103 FR (100AH?).....1
Lithium 100AH................................1

No consensus, I guess if it works for you, do it.

In sealed lead cell batteries it's the thickness of the lead plates that makes it a true "deep cycle" which means weight. To save weight and gain life cycles (but lose weight in the pocket book) go lithium.
Boonie, you need to decide on a chemistry, decide how much overall weight will factor in, and determine what size battery(s) will fit your space. That will narrow down your options plenty. Then, it's just a shopping decision. Most high quality batteries are going to deliver the ah listed and last a long time if charged and maintained correctly. So look for the battery with the best price/warranty/etc. Any of the batteries on your list will work.

Boonie, on 07 Apr 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:
Score sheet:
VMax 100AH .................................1
Dual golf cart 6V 205AH.................1
Solar PG-12V103 FR (100AH?).....1
Lithium 100AH................................1

No consensus, I guess if it works for you, do it.

In sealed lead cell batteries it's the thickness of the lead plates that makes it a true "deep cycle" which means weight. To save weight and gain life cycles (but lose weight in the pocket book) go lithium.
 
Boonie said:
Vic, these were the only specific batteries mentioned by other members in their response to my question. I am still wide open to all other choices. My build is still two months away :( from needing a battery so will wait until then before purchasing.
I would echo Esus, and focus on the size of your battery compartment, and choose the biggest AH AGM deep cycle battery from a reputable brand. Trojan, Crown, Rolls/Surrette, VMAX. I went with two 6V Rolls "golf cart" style batteries. Regardless of which brand, look at if they have detailed spec sheets with their desired charging voltages, currents, temp compensation values, etc, because you will want to program all that info into the Trimetric.
 
Vic,

Space is no issue for me because my "camper" is a build. I actually have space in my chassis where I stretched the wheelbase two feet that I could mount four 6V GC batteries. But, even two 6V would give me more AH capacity than I need and would therefore force me to carry around extra weight that I do not want. (I will probably use that space for an extra water tank that I do need)

To your second point, I agree that I need to look for a single battery because of weight with "the biggest AH AGM deep cycle from a reputable brand". That is why I was concerned about the VMAX statement regarding size of the solar array. This has been explained well in the answers I have received and I am no longer concerned. In essence my single 120w flexible mounted flat on the roof may not be able to adequately recharge a 50% DOD on a 125AH battery, so I will need to break out and add the 100w portable for adequate charge capacity.

At this time the VMAX is the only battery I have run across that has a 120+ AH rating, so I will be looking for others in that range.

Thanks as always for you insight and input,
Boonie
 
I just wish those and others were more readily available. Free shipping on the Vmax is quite an incentive.
 
I saw the vmax is on sale with a battery box. +10% off . similar in price to what is available locally but with 20 amps more capacity. Should one just pop for the vmax charger or will the on board converter be ok?


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hebegebe said:
I saw the vmax is on sale with a battery box. +10% off . similar in price to what is available locally but with 20 amps more capacity. Should one just pop for the vmax charger or will the on board converter be ok?


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West
Their chargers don't look especially different from a generic charger. Non-adjustable, it seems. By on board, do you mean to say you have an Iota installed? That will be fine, especially if you have the IQ4 add on.
 
Yes the iota w/ module couldn't remember off the top of my head I've been driving around with my dead battery in my truck for a week and gotta do something it's springtime!


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