Ampacity of wire

Battery Cables

On another RV group, we were discussing battery wiring and one person introduced me to Type 3 marine power cable. Here's some stuf from an audio web site, followed by some comments on a boat site about welding cable:

TYPE 3 MARINE CABLE

Here's some info from the Crutchfield Audio Site:

Q: What kind of wires should I use to hook up my marine audio system?

A: When choosing wire for any kind of application on your boat, make sure the wire is stranded, at the very least, and tinned, if at all possible. According to the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council), only stranded copper wire is acceptable for marine wiring applications. Other metals, such as aluminum and steel, corrode too quickly and can't withstand the constant vibrations of a boat in motion. A thin coating of tin (or solder) applied to copper can further enhance the copper's resistance to corrosion, creating the longest-lasting wiring material you can put on your boat.

Other things to take into consideration include the necessary gauge of the wire. SAE-rated wire (Society of Automotive Engineers) often has a smaller diameter than AWG-rated wire (American Wire Gauge), even though the two wires may be labeled the same gauge. AWG-size cables better suit marine applications, especially those labeled "boat cable" on the insulation. You'll also find "type" cables, which tell you how many strands are found in each wire. A Type 1 cable, for example, is either a single solid strand or just a few strands. You should not use Type 1 cables for boat applications. Type 2 wires have anywhere from 19 strands to 127 strands, depending on the gauge, in this case running from 16-gauge down to 0-gauge. Type 2 wires can be used for any general purpose wiring job on your boat, such as for wiring speakers. Type 3 cables have considerably more stranding than Type 2. For the same gauge range (16-0), Type 3 wires may include 26-1,064 strands. You should use Type 3 wires for applications that will require a lot of bending, flexing, or jostling, as the more strands a wire has, the longer it will last with frequent flexing.

Check out our Monster marine speaker wire as well as our selection of marine power and ground wires.


WELDING CABLE

Most welding cable is not suitable for marine work for a couple of reasons.

All marine wire should be stranded copper (tinned much preferred) Type 2 and Type 3 (preferred). All suitable cable will have UL 1426 or equivalent certification. The old ABYC standard is ABYC E-9.15.2. It's in E11 now; I'll find it and post it.

Welding cable has a couple of shortcomings. First, the insulation, while thick, isn't traditionally designed for use in hot/moist engine rooms. If the insulation does meet both oil and heat tests it MAY be acceptable.

Welding cable is also made of many more strands and they are much more fragile. While stranding is a good thing and the flexible Type 3 is preferred to the less flexible Type 2 most marine electrical experts believe that the off the shelf welding cable is likely to break at the termination points more easily than high grade boat cable.

So, if the wire meets the standards it can be used but most welding cable doesn't. I use a LOT of marine wire in my electrical business and much prefer brand name (Pacer, Ancor, Dearborn) boat cable for the above reasons. This is from an ABYC Standards FAQ on the abycinc.net website:

"Welding cable is often used for battery cables on boats. However, the welding cable's insulation must be oil and water-resistant. Cable that is not oil and water resistant may become impregnated with the water or oil and reduce the insulation's effectiveness. ABYC E-9.15.2 covers the requirements for the construction of cables and conductors."


Scott Berg

END
 
This thread is way too short, so let me ask a bunch of questions!

I have a Vector 1000 Watt Inverter that I plan on installing in my ATC Cougar.

The ONLY reason I bought this inverter is because I got a heck of a discount where I work part-time (lots of blue and yellow).

The Vector manual says, "Proper Cable Gauge (AWG) @ 6 FT = #3"

The Vector manual also says, "ANL Fuse Rating for Direct Hardwire = 200"

The Vector box says, "Heavy Duty 2 AWG 12 Volt DC Connectors"

The "Important Safety Instructions" yellow piece of paper in the box says, "Warning: For input connections, use minimum of #2AWG conductor cables. Do not exceed recommended length of six (6) feet maximum"

I googled for the cable kit for this inverter and bought a VEC082 cable kit for $14 (made by Vector). The cable kit package says this kit is for the VEC049 inverter.

After I opened the cable kit, I noticed it says, "Heavy Duty #4 Welders Cable". (There is a black 5' 4AWG stranded cable and a red 5' 4AWG stranded cable.)

I called Vector (now Black & Decker) support and the person I talked to who talked to his supervisor said, "Use #3 like the manual says."

But #3 gauge is [insert bad word] impossible to find!

So, what gauge should I use? I probably also need a heavy duty switch and xxx amp fuse… right?

Mike
 
Here's a online calculator.
Been there, done that. :thumb:

FWIW - Vector is not considered a top quality inverter.
FWIW - $70 NEW in the Box :thumb:

The more I search for inverter cables, the more I am confused. :(

For example, on this link http://boatandrvaccessories.com/INVERTER-CABLES.htm find "VEC082" and that is exactly what I bought.

Notice is says, "5 FT 4G 1000-3000 WATT POWER INVERTER CABLE SET"

So, why does the inverter itself say, "2 AWG" ????

Mike
 
Before my brain explodes from googling about inverter cables/fuse/etc, I have found a few interesting things...

http://beta.circuitwizard.bluesea.com/

http://bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/Quick_Guide_to_Blue_Sea_Fuses_and_Circuit_Breakers.pdf

http://bluesea.com/category/3/10/productline/overview/150 I do like the Bussman 185-series circuit breakers "Combines switching and circuit breaker function into one unit"

http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2065.PDF

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inverter_faq.html

The NAPA 150 amp fuse has an Interrupt Rating of 1,000 amps. But, the Vector manual says use an ANL type fuse and those have an Interrupt Rating of 6,000 amps. Really not sure how this affects anything. :confused: But I do like the fact that I can avoid shipping by using my local NAPA store. :D

If I am not careful, the fuse and cabling could cost more than the inverter!

Mike
 

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When you start talking about this kind of power draw, you may also be interested in using a circuit breaker or even better, a self resetting circuit breaker rather than a fuse. They work really well for something that you know may have higher than *acceptable* power draw on occasion.

I have one on my air compressor in the Jeep. So far, I haven't tripped mine, but a friend that has the same setup in his Jeep has overheated it a few times and tripped the circuit breaker. It's nice not having to go searching for fuses or cursing that you don't have any more when you've got 2 tires aired back up to street pressure and 2 around 10PSI.

I can see being in the same situation w/ a power inverter at some point as well.

Kyle
 
When you start talking about this kind of power draw, you may also be interested in using a circuit breaker or even better, a self resetting circuit breaker rather than a fuse.
I do like the Bussman 185-series circuit breakers that combines switching and circuit breaker function into one unit.

I am not sure if I want any automatic stuff to happen, as in sheet happens. :eek:

Mike
 
I don't know too much about the inverters.

But here are some pictures I have saved from customers that have installed them on their own in the FWC's.

Hope this helps.



.
 

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Dear Mike--

{Forgive the belated post; I've been having problems uploading and with email.}

Let's back up and take a look at the current your inverter is likely to draw. (BTW, I had one of these units and it worked fine. It was permanently mounted to the truck I sold, so that's why I don't have it any longer.)

1000W of output at 90% efficiency means you are going to draw almost 95 amperes from your battery during full load. So, no matter what wires you use, you won't be using them very long at full output unless your truck is running.

Let's say you are connecting the inverter to your 'house' battery and that it will be installed inside your camper-- How long a run do you have from your alternator to your 'house' battery, and what wire gauge are you using there?

:eek:

So, we need to see the project in a holistic way...

The cables you bought, referring to the wire calculator referenced by bobg333, will cause a drop of about 0.13 Volts at rated inverter output. This is about a 1% voltage drop, which according to bobg333's estimate is OK. (I think he's probably right.)

Before closing, I would be remiss not to point you to this excellent thread-- bteam wiring job which reports lots of excellent real-world experience.

All the Best!

Mark
 
Kyle,
I enjoyed talking to you yesterday and I promise to get together soon for a suspension comparison. Sorry I was so loopy its the drugs.

What type of compressor are you running on the CJ?
 
Jay,

Hope you're feeling better and that all is well. I'll have to take your word that your loopiness is from the drugs since that's the first time I've talked w/ you. For what it is worth, you didn't sound all that loopy...

I'm using the cheapie MV-50 that you used to be able to get for $25... now they are $50-70. It performs about the same as a quick air II if I remember correctly. It is permanently mounted w/ a pressure switch and tank with quick disconnect air chucks at the front and back of the Jeep for tire fillup or air tools in a pinch. I think, for now, I'm going to go the same way w/ the Dodge. For now, I'll just keep it portable. I would love to go with one of the Kilby systems, but I just can't justify the cost.
 
I have a very slow but reliable air horn compressor from JC Whitney. Its 15 years old. I mounted in an ammo can. I've been thinking about getting the dual piston model Q89 Master Flow from Costco for $150. It looks the same as the Smitty Built. They claim 0 to 35 psi in 3 minutes. The Viare isnt any faster I dont think. I just cant justify $450 for a seldom used compressor that doesnt seem to be much faster.
 
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