An Interesting Photo

[CJinCA]

i too am a law breaker.

i have let my dog off his leash in places that have well posted leash laws.
not everywhere...just a few specific places.

Dogs are noted to have a bad impact in certain environments.

Some believe this is significant.


Not to rain on your parade, but not everyone likes dogs – especially when they are free ranging. I’m just as likely to kill or maim an untended dog roaming wild as not. Depends on the dog’s demeanor and my personal comfort level at the time. No one around and a dog charges me, bye bye bow wow. I have no idea whether your dog wants to lick my hand or bite it off.

If you value your pet, keep it under control, preferably leashed. I keep my pets under control at all times. It’s not that hard to do.

 

[mtn-high]

I disagree. Often there is a fine line between vigilantism and justice, occasionally, the line is quit broad. Although I wouldn’t encourage others to act as MTN suggests, if I was there, I probably would have had my back to the scene when that stuff disappeared, especially if I knew it was going to be turned in as “lost and found” or donated to a charity. I respect law and order, I also respect right and wrong.

Thanks Edo. We call it "Forest Karma" here. The same thing happens to the tents and lawn chairs and other crap folks set up and LEAVE in the forest ALL WEEK long to save the >choice spots< so they can drive right in on Friday night @ midnight to their "Reserved" camp spot. Nope. Not gonna happen.... "Tent? What tent?" Play fair (respect the rights of others and Mother Earth) or suffer the consequences, folks. Simple stuff.

To clarify on the photo/scenario offered here...... yes...I would have dismantled their camp if I had the chance. After I was done I would have left them a nasty note telling them that their gear is at the nearest Ranger/BLM station and that they can easily claim it there.

mtn

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

Thanks Edo. We call it "Forest Karma" here. The same thing happens to the tents and lawn chairs and other crap folks set up and LEAVE in the forest ALL WEEK long to save the >choice spots< so they can drive right in on Friday night @ midnight to their "Reserved" camp spot. Nope. Not gonna happen.... "Tent? What tent?" Play fair (respect the rights of others and Mother Earth) or suffer the consequences, folks. Simple stuff.

To clarify on the photo/scenario offered here...... yes...I would have dismantled their camp if I had the chance. After I was done I would have left them a nasty note telling them that their gear is at the nearest Ranger/BLM station and that they can easily claim it there.

mtn


Of course their stuff would be left with the pictures of where you found it...

 

[EdoHart]

Thanks Edo. We call it "Forest Karma" here. The same thing happens to the tents and lawn chairs and other crap folks set up and LEAVE in the forest ALL WEEK long to save the >choice spots< so they can drive right in on Friday night @ midnight to their "Reserved" camp spot. Nope. Not gonna happen.... "Tent? What tent?" Play fair (respect the rights of others and Mother Earth) or suffer the consequences, folks. Simple stuff.

To clarify on the photo/scenario offered here...... yes...I would have dismantled their camp if I had the chance. After I was done I would have left them a nasty note telling them that their gear is at the nearest Ranger/BLM station and that they can easily claim it there.

mtn

Whoa. To do that to someone who has broken the law AND damaged the area AND is not likely to be caught by law enforcement is one thing. To do that to someone whom has acted legally is quit another thing. In the USFS sites around here (and I suspect across the country) the rules are that one must stay at the site the first night and occupy it for no more that 14 consecutive nights.

I went camping once in the middle of the week, before the last weekend of deer season. Every site in every camp ground had a tent setup, but nobody was around. I co-occupied a site and was prepared to appologize and leave if the people who claimed it showed up. They didn't show up while I was there and I left Friday morning because I didn't want to be there with such a large (and probably raucous) crowd.

 

[rich]

Not to rain on your parade, but not everyone likes dogs – especially when they are free ranging. I’m just as likely to kill or maim an untended dog roaming wild as not. Depends on the dog’s demeanor and my personal comfort level at the time. No one around and a dog charges me, bye bye bow wow. I have no idea whether your dog wants to lick my hand or bite it off.

If you value your pet, keep it under control, preferably leashed. I keep my pets under control at all times. It’s not that hard to do.


I think if the words "kill" or "maim" roll off the tongue that easily one might want to do some serious soul searching about their intentions in general, dogs or not.

 

[Fitwon]

At various seasons of my life, I have lived on both sides of the tracks. I love nature and am city adverse and absolutely get stirred up when I see someone hurting our beautiful world. So I definitely would error on the side of aggressive action--it is my nature from competing in a warrior sport through age 28.

Photos and letter are good. While I was taking the photos the guy with the axe would be able to clearly see that I was packing heat. I would give him a friendly wave just before I took his picture too. Then I would depart with photos of vehicle and written vin # from the vehicle.

I might offer the axe man a reading lesson.

Yes, I am still alive after all these years of pushing the limits of civility.

 

[ski3pin]

From my contact on the Inyo:

"Also, thanks for the update on Trail Canyon... Anyway, we'll look into it the cites and fines and see how far things can be prosecuted."

I will keep you posted.

 

[HERR42]

I think if the words "kill" or "maim" roll off the tongue that easily one might want to do some serious soul searching about their intentions in general, dogs or not.


my poor old puppy dawg.....who would feel the need to shoot a golden retriever?

 

[rich]

my poor old puppy dawg.....who would feel the need to shoot a golden retriever?


Not me, my dog is part of the family, I'd react the same to someone raising a hand to him that I would to them trying that on my Wife, Dad or Brother.

I don't think you have much to worry about though, Golden's have those sad eyes, no one could take a whack at one

 

[craig333]

I think I can see both sides. I don't want a strange dog wandering through my campsite either, yet I love to let my dog off leash at every opportunity. I think the key is making the right choice. Even though I was the only one in Berlin/Ichthyosaur SP at the moment, it still wouldn't have been an appropriate place to have him off leash.

I do hope that if I am momentarily inattentive you'll shoo him away.

 

[CJinCA]

I think if the words "kill" or "maim" roll off the tongue that easily one might want to do some serious soul searching about their intentions in general, dogs or not.


No soul searching necessary.

After having a family member badly bitten by a loose dog and myself attacked by a Rottweiler, the first thing that comes to mind when I see dogs running wild with no owners in sight, is how I can take it out if necessary.

It all boils down to irresponsible pet owners. If you value your animal, take care of it. That means keeping tabs on it and showing common courtesy to others by not letting it run wild.

A rancher friend of mine shoots all roaming dogs on his ranch on sight after losing several calves to dog packs. He hangs the dog carcasses on the barb wire fence of his property, in full view of the local county road. I asked him if he was concerned about the dog owners claiming the carcasses and causing trouble. He said let them come. He’s waiting to find out who owns the curs as he will sue them for thousands in damages to his livestock. No one has come forward yet to claim a dead dog.

If you leave your animal run wild, you are not a responsible pet owner and unfortunately, your pet may suffer the consequences of your disregard for others.

That’s the other side of the coin.




I think I can see both sides. I don't want a strange dog wandering through my campsite either, yet I love to let my dog off leash at every opportunity. I think the key is making the right choice. Even though I was the only one in Berlin/Ichthyosaur SP at the moment, it still wouldn't have been an appropriate place to have him off leash.

I do hope that if I am momentarily inattentive you'll shoo him away.


I will and do. I'm not talking about a silly black lab wagging his tail approaching me. Or even dogs under 20 pounds. It's the big ones with aggressive tendencies, coming in fast with no owner in sight. I don't trust them and I really don't trust them when small children are present. Better a dead dog than an injured or dead child. I make no appologies for this.

 

[mtn-high]

I smell STEAK.

Rancher or otherwise, shoot my dog and you'll live a life of "bad Luck".

 

[rich]

A rancher friend of mine shoots all roaming dogs on his ranch on sight after losing several calves to dog packs. He hangs the dog carcasses on the barb wire fence of his property, in full view of the local county road.


That's not the California I know. Let me know where exactly you live because I want to skip the town with the pet carcasses on the fence in my travels.

 

[the fisherman]

After having a family member badly bitten by a loose dog and myself attacked by a Rottweiler, the first thing that comes to mind when I see dogs running wild with no owners in sight, is how I can take it out if necessary.

I really didn't think much of this until I realized that my back yard is a 150,000 acres of BLM land, The KIng Range in No. Cal. and that quite frequently I'm roaming around with my 2 dogs which are big 150# and 205# and never on a leash, so if you happen to find your self in my backyard and you decide to pack a piece for you're protection you might want to make it a soft one, that way it won't hurt so bad while removing it from that special place where the sun don't shine.

 

[CJinCA]

That's not the California I know. Let me know where exactly you live because I want to skip the town with the pet carcasses on the fence in my travels.


Thank you. I appreciate the gesture. I live in Eureka and you can avoid it at all costs to you. My rancher friend lives southeast of Hollister. I’ll bet he’d be happy if you’d avoid that part of California as well.

As for causing trouble for my friend after your dog chases, injures or kills his livestock, he’d love to find you to discuss your pet management skills with you. He’s a real fun guy when it comes to that subject. The sheriff will also join in and want to talk to you in depth.

If your dog injures me or a loved one, I will very much want to talk to you as well. Please carry $$$$$$$$ of liability insurance or have lots of hard assets available to make my attorney happy. He’s a greedy son of a gun.

C’mon guys, take a little responsibility for your property. There’s no excuse for dogs running wild with no supervision. You do your pet a disservice by being negligent and put it in harm’s way with no one to blame but yourself. Man’s best friend deserves better. To argue otherwise is folly.




I really didn't think much

Yeah, that's blatantly obvious.


I'm done with this nonsense. Time to go camping.

 

[ski3pin]

I'm done with this nonsense. Time to go camping.



Me too.

 

[the fisherman]

Woodley Island Marina C dock I'm there at least 3 or 4 times a week. Just look for the 2 BIG dogs.

 

[mtn-high]

Steering this back to the first disagreement (LOL)....

After a search I found that it appears there is no "universal" USFS policy on the "14 day limit".

Some forests list the stay as being "limited to 14 days"

others say "Limited to 14 >consequetive< days".

yet others state there is a 14-day limit and go on to state that when you move camp you must move at least 5 miles away from your previous camp.

most list "dispersed" camping in undeveloped site as limited to 3 weeks max.

"first come, first serve" "No reservations"

In my travels looking for this info I came across a few forums like our where folks were discussing this topic. I was amazed at how many folks thought it was OK to move their RV/trailer up to "their" campspot and leave it all Summer until they needed in during hunting season in the Fall. Most saw no problem in doing this...and many were actually griping that the Rangers have started citing folks who do this (since a policy change in 2006 from what I could see).

In the end I think it depends on how you were raised/your basic respect level overall towards the other 240 million people in this country who also "own" these lands whether or not you feel that practices such as these are warranted/AOK/have no impact on anyone else.

travel safe....

mtn

 

[Silvertip47]

I love dogs more than most people. I particularly despise people who abandon/abuse/torture dogs. I once found an old Dachshund lying in a ditch along a county road wrapped in barbed wire. Not tangled in a fence but intentionally wrapped up like a ball of twine. And yes, he was still alive. It's a good thing I never found out who did it as I would be typing this from prison!!!!

OTOH a dog can escape from a responsible pet owner at times. Maybe a kid holds the front door open too long. Shooting a threatening, aggressive dog is one thing. But I can't believe CJ would shoot the family pet for an "unauthorized" adventure through a campground.

It is the law in Idaho that ranchers/farmers may shoot dogs "worrying livestock". But it appears the rancher friend and Sheriff may be brothers!!! Or the Sheriff should cite the farmer for hanging dead animal carcasses on the fence. Not legal in Idaho and doubt very much it is in Ca.

As far as the illegal camping photo I can tell you what I'd do. I am a retired Deputy Sheriff of 28 years. I am used to answering calls solo and where back up could be an hour away. I learned that talking people to jail, while not 100% effective, was much easier than fighting. I would approach them and identify myself. Not like gangbusters, but very casual. Do not belittle or embarrass a man especially in front of friends, wife or family. He knows he is in the wrong. After explaining the problems of parking there, without threatening to prosecute him, I'd give you odds he would move the vehicle behind the barricade to be the "good guy" for his family.

But if he was a jerk about it, I would take my evidence and file a complaint through the appropriate law enforcement agency. Had I seen it while on still on duty I would have cited him, no questions asked!!!!

Yes, technically I am just another old man standing in line at the grocery store and have no powers of arrest other than that of a private citizen. Someday I may get shot or blind sided with a 2x4. My number will just be up, that's all. But this country is going to Hell and if we don't stand up for what's right then we will get what we deserve!!!

 

[ski3pin]

As far as the illegal camping photo I can tell you what I'd do. I am a retired Deputy Sheriff of 28 years. I am used to answering calls solo and where back up could be an hour away. I learned that talking people to jail, while not 100% effective, was much easier than fighting. I would approach them and identify myself. Not like gangbusters, but very casual. Do not belittle or embarrass a man especially in front of friends, wife or family. He knows he is in the wrong. After explaining the problems of parking there, without threatening to prosecute him, I'd give you odds he would move the vehicle behind the barricade to be the "good guy" for his family.

But if he was a jerk about it, I would take my evidence and file a complaint through the appropriate law enforcement agency. Had I seen it while on still on duty I would have cited him, no questions asked!!!!




I like to watch professionals work and I have learned to appreciate their perspective, usually gained from many years of experience. Thanks for your insight and post Silvertip.

Unfortunately in this case it appears that these folks knew they were wrong and quite possibly proud of it. These meadow restoration projects appeared to be new, there is one more meadow down the road not done yet - four vehicles parked in the middle with horseshoe pits dug and game on - and the public's first view of the restoration and barriers on this holiday weekend. I had the impression these folks were defiant to the government having any right to tell them where they could or could not go.

I have a good idea about how much this restoration, barriers, and work cost, money out of my pocket as a taxpayer. And since I'm paying the USFS folks' wages, I want the best professional work, geared for the long term health of the area, and the best bang for the buck. I am pleased when I actually see work getting done on the ground. To see this just blatantly run over..........