Any other suggestions on front lift repair?

[Barko1]

I read what has been posted to help me with the replacement of the front lift mechanism on my Grandby and got a new set of panels from FWC. Any suggestions, sequence, like start at top or bottom. I never messed with a riveter before but I have once and can practice before the real thing. I presume I just drill out all the existing rivets top and bottom and remove all the old hardware. I thing the tight hinge spring will be the crux of the install and I can string some wire through to help pull it, then rivet into place? FWC didn't have any instructions Said it should be pretty easy.

 

[1tonpaulie]

Hey Barko
If it was me I would take a ton and I mean a ton of pictures from every angle before taking it apart. Also I would call Marty @ ATC for any suggestions. I talked to him last year and seems like a good guy! The way I look at most jobs is somebody put it together and I should be able take it apart and put it back together"

Good Luck

Paulie

 

[the fisherman]

In the next few days I'm going to replace both of mine, if you would like I'll take pictures. The first thing you're going to need is two pairs of duck billed pliers or something like that to rotate the hinges 180deg. I made a couple out of vice grips and some metal plate. This is not a hard job but it's going to take two people. Also you need to build some sort of support for the roof.

 

[rich]

Hey Barko,

I've done both on my fleet and found a few things helpful.

1. Start at the top, the bottoms are held in by screws and you want to leave those in until you have drilled all the rivets out or else it gets sloppy and hard to handle.

2. Get a punch awl and punch and stretch each rivet before you drill or else the drill will walk and your head liner will look like swiss chease when your done.

3. As you drill out the rivets make sure you drill them all the way out and wiggle the drill a bit it will make putting the new, larger rivets in a lot easier. It is a real bear to have to ream on of those holes out through the new hinge with the awkward panel being held in place.

4. Once the holes are drilled out I even put the awl back in there or a nail set and stretched the holes a bit to make sure that I was stretching the hole in the aluminum frame channel sufficiently.

5. If the hinge on your current panel is still really strong I would wire it in place before you remove panel otherwise it can spring back and rip your headliner. This was not a problem for me, my springs were shot

6. Once all the rivets are out, just pull the screws, should be a 5/16 nut driver and remove the panel.

7. Stringing the new one for install, I'll try to post pics of this later.

Good luck and feel free to post more questions - it's not as bad as it looks and if you bought the panels it's really pretty easy. I fabricated my first one which was a bear and then bought the second one.

 

[Barko1]

Thanks mucho, I'll take pics, always help when I rip a motorcycle apart. It should be interesting!

 

[HERR42]

man, with all the pics this could really be a good reference source.

 

[Barko1]

man, with all the pics this could really be a good reference source.


I meant I'll take pics before, any other pics are likely to be "how not to pics". Or this is what can go wrong, or drill in the finger pics

 

[craig333]

What not to do pics are almost as good as what to do pics

 

[Barko1]

In the next few days I'm going to replace both of mine, if you would like I'll take pictures. The first thing you're going to need is two pairs of duck billed pliers or something like that to rotate the hinges 180deg. I made a couple out of vice grips and some metal plate. This is not a hard job but it's going to take two people. Also you need to build some sort of support for the roof.


Dang almost missed your post, have you jumped on this project yet? I just got into mine a bit today, no hurry to get over my head. Those hinges are strong little suckers. I see what you mean about the duckbills, maybe a couple long pieces of steel and use the vicegrips to hold them and be a sort of duckbill??? I'm not sure what'll work for me but I imagine I'll find something.
I have a pop riveter but never used it and didn't know how so I bought a few rivets, drilled some holes in a couple pieces of metal and riveted them together. That worked see how the real deal goes.

Here is why I needed to replace

Drilled the heads off, I think I used a 3/8 bit, wasn't sure how that would work, I was in testing mode, piece of cake so all the bottom ones got drilled, all the top ones had busted through the panel so I'll have to get them later.

You can see the remains of the panel here

Slight damage to be repaired, any recommended substance?

By here the damned thing is all out, even cleaned up a bit, I used anti-gravity paste to keep the roof up.

The vice grips are gripping the remainder of the rivet, sans head. Off course at this point the spring is keeping the remaining head of the rivet out of view and I am not sure of the best way to get rid of them. I guess drilling out but they are tough buggers and maybe this is when I need to go buy the best possible drill bit for the job. Question, would it make any sense to unbolt the hinge from the camper to get all the rivet remains out? Would it be problematic bolting the hinge back on??

At least it is out, I wasn't planning on doing it, thought I'd procrastinate but this was easy. So now it is patch up and hear what you all think is the best way to proceed. Need to get all the rivets top and bottom completely out and then I guess contemplate installing the new.



3

 

[the fisherman]

Barko, I won't get to mine for a couple of days, but you're headed in the right direction, you want to get a couple duck bill vice grips like sheet metal workers and body guy's use, or do what I did and weld some 3/4 by 8 inch stock to some pointed nose vice grips. You are going to have to rotate the new hinge a 180deg. and if you don't spread out the load you're going to bend the hinge. You have to unfasten the bottom hinge to replace the panel if that was your question I'm not sure. This is my second go at this so if you have any questions that I can help you with just ask.
Jon

 

[Barko1]

You have to unfasten the bottom hinge to replace the panel if that was your question I'm not sure. This is my second go at this so if you have any questions that I can help you wit just ask.
Jon

I think that's my question, so I'll pull out the 28 or however many bolts, drill clean or remove the remnants of the rivets, then do I rivet the hinge to the panel before bolting it back on? I noticed how easy it would be to bend that aluminum. A pain in the arse and probably should have been made a but stronger but once I get her done I'll be happy and ready to hit the road. Thanks, wish I had more mechanical background and natural skills but can have everything you know!

 

[Barko1]

Maybe I'll get 4 of these welded up duckbill vicegrips together and send them around the West repairing lift panels

Or from HF, locking sheet metal pliers??http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/pliers/9-3-4-quarter-inch-locking-sheet-metal-plier-with-quick-release-99556.html

 

[Barko1]

Rich advised:

2. Get a punch awl and punch and stretch each rivet before you drill or else the drill will walk and your head liner will look like swiss chease when your done.

I haven't been successful with this so far, think I'll try a pointier awl. Now my panel is out because the top was rotted/broken but the hinge remains and needs to go! this seems like it will be a bitch to drill them out, I can drill and the head come off and them I'm at the point where the drill will roam so time for more punch and stretch.

 

[Barko1]

Some progress, I managed to drill out all the rivets and remove the old hinge. What worked well for me was a step drill bit. I was looking around the tool box for a better awl or something and saw this step bit I recently got. Stuck it in the big drill, laid on my back and gave it a try. Not sure why but it centered well and most came out relatively easy. How the new hinge will totally line up I am not sure because I know it is not perfect Each hole of big enough for the new rivets to go in.

Question, why rivets as opposed to screws, I guess they won't loosen???? Screws seem like an attractive alternative. So now all the old is gone and time to affix the new panel with the pre-installed hinges. This looks hideous Experts and experience needed. So the whole hinge (top) has to be evenly pulled back and then held there long enough to start riveting (or screwing) the other side of the hinge, I guess Tips, suggestions, blessings, prayers appreciated.

 

[the fisherman]

Two people, like I said a couple of pieces of 3/4 by 8 in. or so flat stock pointed nose vice grips, you have to rotate the hinge 180deg. and you don't want to bend it. Rivet the two corners and the center first, then check to see if the roof will lower where you want it to go, if it looks ok pop the rest of the rivets and have a beer. I'll probably be doing the same thing tomorrow, just take your time and if things don't look right stop and tell me what the problem is. Jon

 

[Barko1]

Two people, like I said a couple of pieces of 3/4 by 8 in. or so flat stock pointed nose vice grips, you have to rotate the hinge 180deg. and you don't want to bend it. Rivet the two corners and the center first, then check to see if the roof will lower where you want it to go, if it looks ok pop the rest of the rivets and have a beer. I'll probably be doing the same thing tomorrow, just take your time and if things don't look right stop and tell me what the problem is. Jon


Thanks, couldn't find any sheet metal locking pliers in the few places I checked so will try the metal as you suggest and grab my neighbor. If there is an alignment issue with the rivets/holes can a screw be used instead? So the drill is 3 rivets, have a beer, 28 rivets = 9 beers, have I got it?

 

[the fisherman]

Thanks, couldn't find any sheet metal locking pliers in the few places I checked so will try the metal as you suggest and grab my neighbor. If there is an alignment issue with the rivets/holes can a screw be used instead? So the drill is 3 rivets, have a beer, 28 rivets = 9 beers, have I got it?


Use the rivets, the material at the top is thin alum. and a sheet metal screw will pull out. I suggest that you try to lower the roof carefully with the three rivets, so if there is a problem you will only have to remove 3 and not 28, it's your call, also don't forget the elastic bands that suck in the soft sides when you lower the roof.

 

[Barko1]

Use the rivets, the material at the top is thin alum. and a sheet metal screw will pull out. I suggest that you try to lower the roof carefully with the three rivets, so if there is a problem you will only have to remove 3 and not 28, it's your call, also don't forget the elastic bands that suck in the soft sides when you lower the roof.


Need to fix one of the little suckers. Just found a little metal in the garage and three vicegrips and can see how it'll work. I think I'll get a little more metal and clamp on another vicegrip to make 4. Will try to prop it up, get some extra hands and see how it goes. I imagine this is the crux move of the whole deal. I'd stop by and watch tomorrow but a bit far

 

[rich]

Hi Barko,

You use rivets because you can pound them flat and the lift panel when put together and folded down on itself barely has the gap to accomodate the rivets and lay flat. I got a suggestion to use washers to make the rivets less likely to pull out again and it made it so the first panel I built sticks down at a45 degree angle into the camper because those washers are taking up too much space between the hinges when it is closed down. I fixed that on the second one I did

You should remount all hinges and have a complete panel before trying to reinstall, riveting while in the camper is a bear. I re-used my old hinges and so was able to make an exact hole pattern on the new wood when I fabricated my own rear panel and it lined up pretty good, had to waggle the drill around to widen a few holes to make it work but no biggie. The pre-fab panel I got from ATC was even better, fit like a dream.

I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH THAT IF YOU ARE ATTACHING ANY HINGES TO A PANEL YOU NEED TO POUND THE BACK SIDE OF THE RIVETS FLAT OR THEY WILL EITHER, RIP YOUR SIDE LINER OR MAKE YOUR PANEL NOT CLOSE PROPERLY.

If you have a fully pre-fabricated panel then ATC of FWC will have pounded the rivets for you.

For the install I used the bailing wire trick and it was time consuming but worked great. I screwed the top hinge to my work bench so I could use the leverage of the panel to bend it upright so the hinge was at 90 degrees the way it needed to be for the install.

Stuck bailing wire through every other hinge hole, but a screw driver or end wrench in the middle of the bailing wire and twisted, working my way slowly along so as not to crease the hinge until the bottom hinge was straight, the way it needs to be for install. You then put it in place, set a rivet at the top, set a screw at the bottom and then cut and pull out one piece of bailing wire and work your way across. Once you get going it goes pretty fast and keeps everything nice and secure.

I hope this helps.

 

[rich]

I finally got around to posting the pictures of the new rear lift panel that I did but I didn't want to hijack Barko's thread so you can check them out here:

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3267/page__gopid__35430&#entry35430