Approach to Planning, researching road(s) & trips

[Idahostat]

Hello Group

I will soon have my basic truck and still in the researching the camper phase. I expect to "wander" around some just looking for a suitable camper.

Trip/road planning for the new guy. Your thoughts on estimating road(s) vis Benchmark/DeLorme ( AKA Garmin as they bought DeLorme in 16 ) atlas's. FS or BLM, county or state tertiary roads, no rock crawling . Pick a road from a map, check WTW to see if there is a "trip report" for that road and what truck size went down that road at what time of the year, that seems reasonable but perhaps I am overlooking somethings as I am "new".

As I do not want to bite off more than my limited skill set can drive/handle, do not need to prove anything other than studied approach angle ( pun intended ) to my departure angle to the great un-paved west or the roads less traveled.

So starter roads and trips of increasing complexity or technical difficulty by state, county and Starting at "A" and going to "B" you will encounter ....

As you may not read my signature line, expected to be driving a approximately 22'( bumper issues here ) F350 with an unknown at this time popup camper ( width is varies in research today ), preferable with out a basement ( which would make the "land yacht" even longer, please factor that into your thoughts and humor.

Terence

 

[ntsqd]

There is no substitute for seat time, but you can flatten the early learning curve some by taking an off-road skills driving class. I'm assuming that with a CC you won't be solo, in which case I strongly suggest that both of you or maybe even all of you assuming more than 2 licensed drivers take the class. My logic is that sooner or later you may not be able to drive out and your partner will need to do it. You may be the primary driver, but keeping your partner's skills at least slightly fresh is a good idea. It will also help them to help you when they're spotting you past something. They'll have a much better understanding of what needs to happen. My wife took an intro class from Tom Severin and I recommend him. Though being in ID means that you're a long ways from where he teaches.

Until you're more comfortable and knowledgeable I'll suggest that you only use 2 wheel drive. Try not to obviously, but when you get stuck then use 4 wheel drive to get out and turned around. Starting out in 4 wheel drive just means that you'll be further back in when you get stuck, and then you won't have any simple to use tools left to get unstuck with. I adhere to this 'Rule' when I'm solo for the same reasons. Oh yeah, when backing up to turn around always reverse and turn UPHILL if it is not level. Keep gravity working for you, not against.

Park your ego and trust your gut. That road will still be there when you have more experience.

Not quite what you're asking for I know.

 

[Idahostat]

Thanks ntsqd ( AKA Thom )

That is very good and I will research the class angle ( I attended the 2015 Flagstaff D & P Overland and several companies had offers about class in several aspects of off roading ).

The two wheel drive is were I expect to start ( my biting off more than I can chew, so as "basic" step in discrimination of roads, quality of the aforementioned roads and technical aspects ( 2WD, 4WD and needing spotter(s))).

The choice of CC versus supercab or regular cab reflects my preference for interior space in "theoretical" camper and subsequent storage of gear and such, in and about truck and camper.

"Park your ego and trust your gut. That road will still be there when you have more experience.

Not quite what you're asking for I know."

Closer than you imagined perhaps, I referenced county ( which can be difficult just not FS/BLM perhaps ) and state tertiary roads which may be too basic for the group as whole as the majority of the people asking for advice may have moved on from regular or common secondary ( hard surfaced ) roads to the difficult and or technical vehicular "trails". I will work at not breaking any axels for several years.

Again thanks.

Terence

 

[Idahostat]

Hello Group

After replying to ntsqd it occurs to me to ask, anyone aware if states have any non "hard surfaced" roads in the sense of responsibility?

Fire roads on state forest lands, but are they subcontracted out to the counties who are the local "gov"? Many counties in Oregon are strapped for cash ( tax base ) so roads can be difficult at times.

I have not been driving very long and just realize wile relatively old I have always assumed ( always a problem for me ) that county roads had the option of being hard surfaced, gravel or soil. Originally from Portland Oregon and in Multnomah county which is mostly urban and had not thought much about which government entity maintained roads.

I again assume this would very by state, topic for research again.

Terence

 

[Happyjax]

Terence,

I like your post. I too have been following and learning about trucks and campers and GVWR's GVAR's diesel vs gas, long bed vs short etc etc.......

What is funny is that in all of my learning I have yet to drive off road or in Fwd anywhere....lol

So I follow this thread as many others may with hopes of learning the best approach to not getting stuck (or worse) out there when I get out there

Good luck on finding your camper!

 

[Idahostat]

The few times I have been in 4WD have been in mild snow falls where 2WD was slipping around, and couple of time when it was just to see if I could differentiate 2WD from 4WD in mild dirt/soil conditions on county rural roads .

 

[Advmoto18]

I often hear folks say they are going to stick to groomed gravel roads at worst. But curiosity gets the better of all of us. And before you know it you can be traversing some technical terrain.

Of course the first Rule of off-road travel is knowing when to turn around. And this rule is violated more than all other combined IMO. How do you know when to turn around? When the voice in your head FIRST tells you!

But, reaching technical terrain doesn't necessarily mean you are at your turn around point. That point will be based on many factors. But the most important is the level to which you are trained and have knowledge and know-how to get through. Thus, taking a day course with an off-road driving school is worth every penny IMO. I'm not talking about learning how to drive jeep crawling trails, but, rather the simple things such as, getting out of your truck and scouting your intended path, approach/departure angles as you mentioned, and ensuring you scout a good turn around spot on the other side of the area you scouted in case the little voice starts screaming at you.

We did the Burr Trail through southern UT in May. Absolutely stunning beauty. Not difficult by any stretch. But my navigator did get us on a "short cut" that turned into a 4 out of 10 in difficulty jeep trail. I had to get out and scout several times. Nothing I hadn't driven before or too concerned about. I was more worried about scraping the camper on rock overhangs.

And if you travel with a partner, good for them to learn how to guide you from outside the vehicle. After all you (the driver) will have very limited vision, at best.

Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid...nada.

Have fun and can't wait to read about your adventures.

 

[klahanie]

Terence, I think there are a lot of us cruising around on secondary roads and forest service roads simply site seeing, visiting specific places, camping along the way and having a grand old time doing it. You have a great vehicle to do that with. And can do a lot to do before the need to be concerned about "off road" or trail driving.

I don't know if there is a comprehensive list or database by county of routes that gives some sort of difficulty rating of the roads involved (the OP if I read that correctly). Yes, maps might indicate the surface type or be marked as "rough" or "4x4" etc. I don't have experience with Delorme/Garmin.

As for drive ability experienced compared to expectation from viewing a map beforehand (OP again), I can say you never really know for those roads represented with "thin lines". Google earth can be useful (and a spoiler) for previewing routes and especially showing the route terrain (possible slides or bridge out). You could also ask, why was the road built ? resource haul road, gas exploration, power line access, to a fishing camp, to a park ? And is it being still being used for that purpose? mine closed long ago, additional logging further up the valley, new run or the river hydro ? Later, experience will give you an idea of what to then expect/guess.

As you'll know there are many, many trip reports and write ups on attractions online. Find one that appeals to you and give it a try - I think that's how many of us "start out" or we follow an interest or satisfy an old wish. If you're curious about a particular road do an online search for the road name, sometimes you get lucky and it'll be mentioned in a trip report or a "current condition" question or even a gov website (maybe washouts or closures).

Get out there and explore and if you don't like where you're headed - turn around, there's lots of other places.

Enjoy !

 

[rotti]

https://www.funtreks.com/funtreks-guidebooks

 

[Idahostat]

Thanks Rotti

I will procure a couple and examine, they look interesting. Any oversight of the process of whom it is that qualifies a road classification, thinking of the "less groomed" roads category I would guess moderate and difficult that the publisher "fun treks" uses, ( publisher opinion based on "X", or following a guideline from whom )?

I thought I had read of a numerical scoring system but do not recollect where and when I read that so uncertain. Are you aware of any national organization(s) that attempt to rate and or categorize off road or atypical roads as to their difficulty and for ATV, truck, Subaru?

Thanks

Terence

 

[rotti]

I thought I had read of a numerical scoring system but do not recollect where and when I read that so uncertain. Are you aware of any national organization(s) that attempt to rate and or categorize off road or atypical roads as to their difficulty and for ATV, truck, Subaru?

I am not aware of any national rating group but google is your friend if you are interested in a particular area or trail. As an example is the Red Cone and Webster Pass trail here in Colorado. I have ridden it on a dirt bike, in a jeep and recently in my truck and Hawk.

An example of some of the reviews:
The breathtaking road to Red Cone Pass in Colorado
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/colorado/webster-and-red-cone-pass-trail
Red Cone - Colorado Offroad Trail

Even videos:

My review would be easy to moderate on Webster and the descent on Red Cone leaning to difficult because if you screw up you are dead. Pucker factor a solid ten. Do some research on the web and see what you might be comfortable with.

No pics of the descent on Red Cone as I had other things on my mind.

 

[gaylon]

I almost never engage 4wd in my Tundra. Good tires, software controlled limited slip equivalent, and 1500 lbs. of wet camper on the rear axle make for pretty solid traction in almost all conditions. Of course - caveat is that I have been off roading for almost 30 years in jeeps and then land cruisers...

 

[Durango1]

Lots of good points here. For me, the perfect trip is where we see incredible scenery, not a human, great birding and I never "have to" engage my 4WD. (But it is very comforting to know it is there.)

Same principle on my hitch mounted 10,000# Warn winch. And the long handled shovel, chain saw, heavy duty battery jumper, etc. I follow a belt and suspenders approach since we usually travel alone.

And yes, a bit of cowardly caution is your best friend.

Steve

 

[klahanie]

This has nothing to do with a comprehensive rating/road type resource.

Re when to be in 4wd I just want to add comment. Often travelling on a loose surface, forestry type road I believe being in 4wd can increase my safety in the event that I have to make a quick, evasive maneuver. I've seen a few close calls and have encountered enough yahoos, industrial traffic, animals and "road irregularities" to know I can't know what is around the corner. Naturally, rate of travel plays a big factor here but I can't do any thing about the "other guy". Besides, the selector switch/lever is right there... Just another angle to think about.

btw, despite the worry, I've had no real problems with large industrial vehicle drivers, I think they develop a sixth sense to traffic.

 

[Happyjax]

I am not aware of any national rating group but google is your friend if you are interested in a particular area or trail. As an example is the Red Cone and Webster Pass trail here in Colorado. I have ridden it on a dirt bike, in a jeep and recently in my truck and Hawk.

An example of some of the reviews:
The breathtaking road to Red Cone Pass in Colorado
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/colorado/webster-and-red-cone-pass-trail
Red Cone - Colorado Offroad Trail

Even videos:

My review would be easy to moderate on Webster and the descent on Red Cone leaning to difficult because if you screw up you are dead. Pucker factor a solid ten. Do some research on the web and see what you might be comfortable with.

No pics of the descent on Red Cone as I had other things on my mind.

In the words of Sheldon Cooper..."Bitches be crazy!"

 

[Idahostat]

Thanks Group for the assorted responses. I do expect to take a class ( however not the "armored vehicle defensive driving" class ), I found in doing a basic search.

After lurking on numerous forums I have inferred that class and possible group travel/exercise with more experienced peoples is the way for this "new to off roading" guy to proceed.

Terence

 

[JimBow]

I really like the Gaia GPS app on my iPhone for navigation. I use it on every trip. You can download maps for the area you're going to be in. No cell service is needed once you get the maps downloaded.

The resolution is better on a smart phone than on a dedicated GPS. And the maps you can download using the Gaia app may be more up to date than the pre-loaded maps on a dedicated GPS unit.

 

[Idahostat]

JimBow

I have the original GaiaGPS app, have not used it much, but I expect to review the youtube videos and practice with it. Still fiddling with the Garmin "Basecamp" on computer and sending information to the GPS ( Nuvi 2789LT ) and it is like ComicSans of mapping so far, I have a soon to be obsolete TomTom that allowed for less traveled roads ( Garmin Basecamp seems dedicated to freeways, apparently it is possible to get it todo less traveled roads but my patience seems to unravel as I "wrestle" with the interface ), TomTom will let you set a winding road to a destination ( not trails, but some very tertiary roads ).

TomTom has decided to retire it in favor of a more freeway/toll road money maker, sigh.

T.

 

[iowahiker]

We are newbie's at single tracks and our truck does not have skid plates. We traveled more dirt this year than any prior year. We have every Benchmark Road and Rec atlas and staying off the "dotted pink" roads while staying on the "dotted dark red" roads has worked well. Benchmark atlas's can be out of date. We purchase every national forest district map (not the "motor vehicle use map" which are free). Staying on the solid double lines or better has worked for us. Dashed double lines vary from 30 mph to ruts two feet deep and so we peek and look for recent maintenance before going. Practice backing up using your side mirrors only at every chance because a 22' truck may need to go backwards a long way. We peek on foot while our truck is only 19' long.

Virginia is covered with very large yellow signs which say "GPS navigation not recommended".

 

[allanb]

I'll agree with a lot of what Iowa hiker is saying. I have 30 plus years of experience on western forest service two track roads, and have seldom had or needed 4 wheel drive. In fact did 10 years of that in a 70's Dodge Dart, 10 in a 4x s10 pickup, and 10 in a regular 2 wheel drive chevy van. All with street tires.
Albeit, didn't do much in wet weather, snow or sand. So if the road is dry two track, pretty much passable in anything. High ground clearance. ( vans are great) is worth more than four wheel drive. And there was a few handful of times when I wish I had 4 x, " to see where that road goes".
On a couple of weeks of ROCKY Utah roads last fall, did fine with the 22 foot long gmc 2500 4x / North Star combo. Agree, all the camper weight in the back helps a lot. BUT,was disappointed with how rough the ride felt with the long wheel base 2500. Too stiffly sprung?
Only time I used 4 wheel drive was in California desert sand. Was getting late and dark, no place to pull over. Fairly deep sand along side roads. So, knowing I had 4 x, sand mats and shovel, figured worth the risk. Barreled far as I could in to previous ly used wash. Just far enough off road for a nights sleep. Next morning, rocking back and forth a few times in 4x, got me back onto the road.